Bbm

[stockstandard]

Thought this might be interesting. One run with BBM locked in short runners, one run in long. Might help people decide if a BBM conversion is worth the effort or not.

[AUII_Forte]

Bloody hell......I didn't think it made that much difference!

I'd say the BBM is where 90% of the power upgrade from the ED's 148kw to the EF's 157kw is.

[stockstandard]

to the best of my knowledge, the ED (and previous) manifolds were about the same as the BBM on short, so the gains you get by swapping are the low end (where you do most of your driving).

[Rmyers]

Originally Posted by AUII_Forte

Bloody hell......I didn't think it made that much difference!

I'd say the BBM is where 90% of the power upgrade from the ED's 148kw to the EF's 157kw is.

I'd say that's not true, the BBM should make better low down power but up high it'd be about the same. Once the manifold switches to short runners above 3000, then the length of the runners compared to the ED manifold is the same, and in fact will technically be worse than the ED's as it has an open butterfly through the port that the air must travel around...

[AUII_Forte]

Originally Posted by stockstandard

to the best of my knowledge, the ED (and previous) manifolds were about the same as the BBM on short, so the gains you get by swapping are the low end (where you do most of your driving).

Thinking about that now, you're right! I'll crawl back under my rock now and shut up. lol.

Originally Posted by Rmyers

I'd say that's not true, the BBM should make better low down power but up high it'd be about the same. Once the manifold switches to short runners above 3000, then the length of the runners compared to the ED manifold is the same, and in fact will technically be worse than the ED's as it has an open butterfly through the port that the air must travel around...

See above comment :P

[sphell]

bloody interesting. Looking at that, you'd want the runners to swap over about 4000rpm not any earlier. IMO, I'll still stick to the good old ED manifold....never been a fan of the BBM.

[neb]

interesting dyno chart... it does give a decent increase down low and midrange.. i can't really be bothered changing to it though :p

[Sox]

Originally Posted by sphell

bloody interesting. Looking at that, you'd want the runners to swap over about 4000rpm not any earlier.

It does, 3800rpm.

IMO, I'll still stick to the good old ED manifold....never been a fan of the BBM.

Why would you say that, on a NA engine, it's a no brainer, the BBM gives a far wider powerband, without any drawbacks.

BTW, 'stockstandard', I did the same test on a dyno ages ago, and torque between 2500rpm-3500rpm had actually improved by approx 40nm.

Rick.

[QUIKXR6]

I've done the full conversion and have realized there is more power down low but up high i think it can be better....my max power output has dropped by a few odd kw...

[Sox]

Originally Posted by QUIKXR6

I've done the full conversion and have realized there is more power down low but up high i think it can be better....my max power output has dropped by a few odd kw...

Why would you trade 2kw above 5000rpm, for 40nm of torque below 3800rpm though?

Rick.

[QUIKXR6]

So we can do better down the quarter mile maybe....power is good for burnout already...whats 40nm gonna be good for down low?

[AUII_Forte]

Getting the car off the line maybe.

[Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by QUIKXR6

...whats 40nm gonna be good for down low?

i hope that is toungue in cheek.

[neb]

The main drawback about changing to bbm is that you also need to change ecu for it to work good... and then my little trip computer would be useless! But yeah it does provide a good increase all below 4000rpm.

What would also be good to see is an eb manifold compared against an ef/el manifold on the same car using the correct ecus

[stockstandard]

Originally Posted by Sox

BTW, 'stockstandard', I did the same test on a dyno ages ago, and torque between 2500rpm-3500rpm had actually improved by approx 40nm.

Pretty close to the results I got (mines seems about 30NM).

[stockstandard]

Originally Posted by neb

What would also be good to see is an eb manifold compared against an ef/el manifold on the same car using the correct ecus

I would try it, but there its a bastard of a job on an EF...

[Sox]

Originally Posted by QUIKXR6

So we can do better down the quarter mile maybe....power is good for burnout already...whats 40nm gonna be good for down low?

So I assume by that you only use your car at the drags?
You don't drive it on the road, but when you have to, you always have the revs above 5000rpm, correct?

Rick.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by neb

The main drawback about changing to bbm is that you also need to change ecu for it to work good... and then my little trip computer would be useless! But yeah it does provide a good increase all below 4000rpm.

Agreed, if it's not an easy conversion, then it's not for everyone, however if you're able to do it without complications, it's a no brainer.

What would also be good to see is an eb manifold compared against an ef/el manifold on the same car using the correct ecus

Whilst I didn't do it back to back, I did do dyno runs with the only change being the BBM, a few weeks apart on the same dyno.

The log manifold curve looks essentially like the BBM when it's on short runners, which makes sense as the the runners are approx the same length.
The BBM's long runners are approx twice the length.

Rick.

[QUIKXR6]

My conversion of the BBM involved changing the ecu and doing it the proper way...i am running an el xr6 ecu now...it is running the BBM switch and i have hooked up a noc sensor...b4 however i was running the standard eb/ed manifold with my ed xr6 ecu... the difference is nothing worth noticin...i have had it dynoed both ways on the same car...just gotta get the graphs scanned so i can post them up....cheers...

[EFFalcon]

the BBM goes hand in hand with an aftermarket ECU too.
where u can decide exactly where you want it to switch the runners for a smooth transition.
the feeling of my car when i ran with them undone was amazing, i know my ignition timing etc is set for it, but still a fair change.

[montyv8]

heh, i'm running around in my EB at the moment with the BBM locked on short runners...
for some reason the switch isnt switching. gotta love cable ties ;)

[EA2BA]

If you have tied shut that is long runners

[stockstandard]

Originally Posted by QUIKXR6

the difference is nothing worth noticin...

I think when you have it all setup you will notice the advantage. If you get in an EF/EL/AU and disable the BBM you really notice the lack guts down low.

[neb]

Originally Posted by stockstandard

I think when you have it all setup you will notice the advantage. If you get in an EF/EL/AU and disable the BBM you really notice the lack guts down low.

I'm just thinking when disabling the bbm to switch.. could the lack of power down low also just be due to the fuel mapping being wrong when its not switched? That would make sense wouldn't it.

One thing I also dislike about the bbm is that the intake pipe needs to be alot longer and curves in a 180 degree bend... the eb intake pipe is shorter and less bends.. which seems a bit better

[stockstandard]

No doubt tuning will change the way it feels. Just saying if you dont notice the difference a BBM makes then it isnt working as it should. Whether or not the extra power is worth the effort is another matter. Considering the amount of time engines spend <3800 compeared to >3800 I think it is worthwhile even though it wont help you win any dyno comps or improve your 1/4.

I tend to agree with you with the intake setup. Although it does flow more than enough, I think ford could have done a much better setup by swapping the battery and airbox over. Would have a nice straight pipe from the TB to the box then.

[EA2BA]

Originally Posted by stockstandard

I tend to agree with you with the intake setup. Although it does flow more than enough, I think ford could have done a much better setup by swapping the battery and airbox over. Would have a nice straight pipe from the TB to the box then.

Heat from the exhaust would be an issue, I think face the top half of the intake the other way would be a better solution , has any one tried this for room, ignoring throttle linkage etc (these can be worked around)

[neb]

I've always thought that would be a good idea dellboy... I can't understand why they faced it that way and made the intake loop around.. throttlebody should be facing towards the passenger side of the car.

[EA2BA]

If someone has done it, will save me checking, otherwise one day sooner then later I will test the theory cause I want to

I think it will get a little messy on the runner switching side of things to change, but anyway.

[eafalcon]

Where is the knock sensor fitted on the EF/EL?

Do u need it if u do the BBM conversion to an EA, if so how and where do you fit it????? I mean physically not electrically.
I am running an EL ecu at the moment.

Cheers