Everything that is wrong with Victoria.

[dom_105]

So with the opening of Eastlink, the State Government is hoping to make a quick buck.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...39-661,00.html

Speeding fines on EastLink to raise $62 million
Gareth Trickey and Ashley Gardiner

May 07, 2008 10:18am

PREMIER John Brumby has defended plans to line EastLink with speed cameras as a safety measure, not a money spinner.

Motorists speeding on the tollway are predicted to deliver a $62 million fines bonus to the State Government over the next 12 months.

But Mr Brumby said the new speed cameras were designed to reduce the state’s road toll.

“Our campaign on road safety and speeding is working,” Mr Brumby said.

“Last year we predicted $420 million (in fines) and this year it will be about the same.”

According to figures in yesterday's Budget, the Government is banking on the new tollway to be a speed camera hot spot, bringing in about $62.2 million in fines over the next 12 months.

The Tollway, scheduled to open within months, is expected to boost fine revenue by about 14.5 per cent to $492 million.

However Victoria’s peak motoring body has described the predicted windfall as “reprehensible”.

RACV general manager public policy Brian Negus said the government had likely used the Western Ring Road as a model to forecast the huge windfall.

“It’s a bit tough on the motorists,” he said.

“I think there needs to be stronger programs in fact to get people to comply with the speed limit.

“We certainly believe people should comply with the speed limit…but the government needs to be more active in this area as well.”

Budget figures reveal the State Government's overall tax grab is expected to soar by $385 million to a record $13.4 billion.

According to the Budget papers, the expected fine take for 2008-09 will increase to $492 million.

''This is principally due to an expected increase in traffic camera and on-the-spot fines arising from the planned opening of the EastLink tollway,'' Budget papers said.

But the expected increase in fine revenue, scheduled to begin from July, would be partly offset by fewer fines issued on the rest of the state's roads

For a start, I will say that if you are speeding and you are stupid enough to get caught, then you should cop whatever comes your way.

I don't see how these cameras are "working" if revenue levels are consistant. Can the Government be serious in their push to reduce speeding if they are banking on the revenue to come rolling in year after year?

And anyway, I think the focus on road safety is on the wrong areas. Eastlink will be one of the safest roads in Australia when it opens, I would have thought it would be better to focus resources in areas such as school zones and regional areas, as opposed to state of the art roads which are some of the safest in the state.

If there was such a need for speed cameras on freeways, then a simple comparasion of road fatality statistics would back this up like the amount of deaths and injuries on Geelong Road pre and post speed cameras, and the amount of deaths and injuries on the Eastern Freeway (which is camera-free) compared to the Monash/Western Ring Road.

If there is no difference, then we should rightly question the need for speed cameras on these roads.

[Brent]

Mate, the Vic state government has prostituted itself to the lure of speed infringement revenue, pure & simple. As you rightly suggest, why aren't the cameras outside school zones, or down shopping centre strips where it would be madness to be speeding? Nup, instead they're strategically placed on long stretches on some of the best highways we have.

As a spin-off from this approach, all the government has succeeded in doing is create an attitude in motorists that so long as you're doing the speed limit, you're OK and you can thus switch your brain off. No wonder we have so many single vehicle crashes.

By the way, I disagree with your first sentence. I believe that most people don't mind reasonable speed limits that are enforced with fairness and for the right reasons. "Stupid" is doing 90kph through a school crossing. A bit different to being pinged for 4kph over in a 100kph zone along a straight stretch of road or slightly downhill where its human nature that some variance in cruising speed will occur.

[Keepleft]

Obscene.

Total and undeniable evidence, yet again, that road users are taken to be 'predicatable taxable income'. It is particularly engineered and recognised so when you have a State Treasury determining such expected income.

Its typical Victoria, but its what people vote for and accept, and it won't change anytime soon UNLESS a party individual comes along and clearly announces a total turnabout on such policy, and is prepared to stand firm against the more emotional members of such party.

In NSW, we do have cameras at newly constructed tunnels-for obvious reason, and are adopting point to point systems along some road networks, even then I am not comfortable with our own approach, but Victoria takes the cake.

It is hard for governments to not become addicted to such revenue raising, and to help people 'accept that', they imply guilt and behavioural modification.

An answer will be to raise speed-limits on higher-standard roads and to re-introduce speed derestriction on some lengths.

That won't happen in VIC, but you never know.

I note that in year two of NT's roadtoll-to-date, which last year was a decade high result (NT's first year of absolute rural speed-limits), that sadly 2008 sems to be even higher than that appaling result, by around 36%, to date.

More to safe driving than 'speed limits'. The more politicians come to accept that, the better off we will be. Current road transport policies, typically advocated by hardline academic social activists is simply killing people. Constant dumbing-down realised by the expectation of 'low driver requirement' leads to complacency in an already put upon public.

Why drive well when you don't need too? The serious of us do, but people are tired of fighting this.

One way to get change is to contact your local state MP, tell him/her what *you* want, tell them the current situation is not on.

Apathy = danger.

[Falcon Coupe]

I read this in the paper today and could not believe my eyes, they actually forcast revenue and factor it into the budget. Everyone needs to stop speeding and stop drinking all premixed drinks to give these turkeys a shake up.

[Bossxr8]

John Brumby was just on the news saying he would be happy if he never had a single person get a speeding fine. WTF, absolute BS. The budget would be stuffed without greed camera revenue. :

[scoupedy]

Yeah Vicky has many issues here are some of the pluses now that i have left:
Best food in Australia
Some of the friendliest people to be found in a big city
great muscle car scene
wall to wall AFL
good pubs/clubs
close to the snow

[woteva]

Cool! With all that dosh from speeding fines, they can pay ConnectEast with that and scrap tolls! :

[burnz]

Originally Posted by woteva

Cool! With all that dosh from speeding fines, they can pay ConnectEast with that and scrap tolls! :

what's that supertramp song called??

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I read this in the paper today and could not believe my eyes, they actually forcast revenue and factor it into the budget. Everyone needs to stop speeding and stop drinking all premixed drinks to give these turkeys a shake up.

This is the worrying bit... the fact that they need the camera revenue to support their budget spending spree's they're renowned for....
The fortunate thing is we can avoid the tax as you say, obey the limits and don't drink the premix sludge!
The only problem with that is where will they turn to next to raise revenue...?

[asusdragon]

same thing over here in perth there was a big front page of the sunday paper few weeks back, they want to put speed camera all the way down the major 3 freeways that was in small print the extra $460million for the government was in bold.

like i know if you dont speed you dont get fined, but what bout all the people who accidently either speed up to or roll up to say 107km/h they will get done for $75. when really it was an accident and i wonder how many of the over all fine are this way.
two of our main freeway go from right up north (joondalup) to right down south (almost Mandurah) bout 1.5hr drive. and i do this on a weekly basis in a 3tonne trunk you try and keep that on 100km/h all the way done i will quiet offen speed up to 110km/h realises then slow back down to 100km/h. its not easy trying to keep a trunk full loaded reving at 2500rpm (100km/h) (redline at 3000km/h) right at that speed it slight movement off the foot and you will speed up or slow down.

[Kil4Collingwood]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

This is the worrying bit... the fact that they need the camera revenue to support their budget spending spree's they're renowned for....
The fortunate thing is we can avoid the tax as you say, obey the limits and don't drink the premix sludge!
The only problem with that is where will they turn to next to raise revenue...?

Thy'll do what they did last time revenue fell below their projections, lower speed limits and tighten the speed camera tolerences below the national standards for speedometers.

No doubt the people of victoria will vote for labor again, giving his corruption the tick of approval and things will only get worse.

[Kil4Collingwood]

Also note that Victorias road toll is up something like 15 or 16 deaths over the same period last year.

[pauljh74]

Pre and post speed cameras - road tolls on the city's major freeways were minimal - considering the volume of traffic. The scene of one of the more notable freeway accidents - the Burnley tunnel - is littered by speed cameras. Lot's of cars with a small portion speeding = big $$$ and zero change in the road toll. If the government really wants their speed camera system to have some credibility as a safety measure, then only use them in blackspot areas, not on wide, smooth, straight low risk motorways.

[yanknbank]

According to the Budget papers, the expected fine take for 2008-09 will increase to $492 million

It's right there in black and white. It's there in the budget papers every year. The pollies might cross their heart and hope to die, they might honestly believe, or like to believe that they're doing something to protect us against ourselves out there on the road, but at the end of the day it's revenue raising pure and simple.

[chevypower]

Tollway, speed camera fines in the same article - sums it up nicely.... no of course it's not about money....

[SpoolMan]

Revenue raising no doubt, send a clear message don’t speed this way you won’t be contributing to the State Treasury.
It’s a voluntary contribution.

[burnz]

i think the title of this thread say it all.
or what's right with victoria?

[kooky]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

This is the worrying bit... the fact that they need the camera revenue to support their budget spending spree's they're renowned for....
The fortunate thing is we can avoid the tax as you say, obey the limits and don't drink the premix sludge!
The only problem with that is where will they turn to next to raise revenue...?

We are still the state with the highest % stamp duty on land.......the victorian tax payer is being raped at every turn.

Getting pinged for 104km/h on a sunday evening @ 7:30pm on a straight stretch of freeway......safety?

[Matt_J]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Obscene.

Total and undeniable evidence, yet again, that road users are taken to be 'predicatable taxable income'. It is particularly engineered and recognised so when you have a State Treasury determining such expected income.

Its typical Victoria, but its what people vote for and accept, and it won't change anytime soon UNLESS a party individual comes along and clearly announces a total turnabout on such policy, and is prepared to stand firm against the more emotional members of such party.

In NSW, we do have cameras at newly constructed tunnels-for obvious reason, and are adopting point to point systems along some road networks, even then I am not comfortable with our own approach, but Victoria takes the cake.

It is hard for governments to not become addicted to such revenue raising, and to help people 'accept that', they imply guilt and behavioural modification.

An answer will be to raise speed-limits on higher-standard roads and to re-introduce speed derestriction on some lengths.

That won't happen in VIC, but you never know.

I note that in year two of NT's roadtoll-to-date, which last year was a decade high result (NT's first year of absolute rural speed-limits), that sadly 2008 sems to be even higher than that appaling result, by around 36%, to date.

More to safe driving than 'speed limits'. The more politicians come to accept that, the better off we will be. Current road transport policies, typically advocated by hardline academic social activists is simply killing people. Constant dumbing-down realised by the expectation of 'low driver requirement' leads to complacency in an already put upon public.

Why drive well when you don't need too? The serious of us do, but people are tired of fighting this.

One way to get change is to contact your local state MP, tell him/her what *you* want, tell them the current situation is not on.

Apathy = danger.

Amen brother!!

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by kooky

We are still the state with the highest % stamp duty on land.......the victorian tax payer is being raped at every turn.

Getting pinged for 104km/h on a sunday evening @ 7:30pm on a straight stretch of freeway......safety?

Try 86kmph, Sunday morning at 7.00AM on the monash freeway...... with a miles per hour speedo. I was the only one there at the time! THATS 53 miles per hour instead of 50 ........... ????? $135.00 and a point that equates to.

The g'ment is having a ball on our behalf and nothing will or can be done because of the 'dont speed' line. Dont give me the 'Dont speed, dont get fined' bit. Thats why they will continue as its the biggest crock since ...... well for ever.

Tell me why the Geelong freeway is 100kmph while bad roads like Calder remain at 110? Because by increasing the speed limit to 110 to Geelong will cut the income raised by up to 70% (figures for fines up to 10kmph over the posted limit) and have no impact on the road toll what so ever. Wish I could find that article but I cant. It was an interesting read earlier in the year. It also stated that all 110kmph zones are being 'investigated'.



| [/url] |

[Bearman]

Sucks big time especially considering Eastlink will be one of the safest roads around.

If everyone stuck to the speed limit and no fines were raised from this road it'll drive Brumby crazy!! Real world, this will not happen. We will continue to cop it for trivial slip ups and there's nothing we can do about it.

I'll just keep that one eye constantly on the speedo, particularly in the coupe. The road speed is slightly quicker than the indicated speed so I'm definately a candidate for Constable Kodak and his employers!!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by auslandau

Tr

Tell me why the Geelong freeway is 100kmph while bad roads like Calder remain at 110? Because by increasing the speed limit to 110 to Geelong will cut the income raised by up to 70% (figures for fines up to 10kmph over the posted limit) and have no impact on the road toll what so ever. Wish I could find that article but I cant. It was an interesting read earlier in the year. It also stated that all 110kmph zones are being 'investigated'.

The RACV was pushing for a 110 zone for the Geelong road, but the government reckoned it would lead to carnage. : On a 3 lane road thats as straight as a die. What a joke. More people would crash on that road by falling asleep as its so slow and boring to drive. As far as I know no one has died on the road in the past year and only 1 I can remember in the past 3. Yeah, its a real dangerous road, better put up some more speed cameras to save us from this road of death. :

[Bobman]

Yeah. More cameras, more deaths? It's really, really working.

Sure that it may be a voluntary tax, but I dispute this.

Cameras are notoriously unreliable. Just look at the WRR Fiasco. I wouldn't trust any camera, even if you're doing 5 km/h under the limit on your speedo.

Autobahns anyone? Speeding is NOT the main cause of deaths anyway.

[4Vman]

The pressure's building..

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...35-661,00.html

I can live with the notion that in some cases and places they're necessary, and lets be honest, they're an "attention to driving" TAX... i.e if you're paying attention to the speed limit you wont get "TAXED", but i find it totally offensive that they're budgeting and forcasting revenue from them.

[TERMINATOR X]

The Lot...thats Why I Moved To Tazz. Eazy Fresh No Fuss Life.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The pressure's building..

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...35-661,00.html

I can live with the notion that in some cases and places they're necessary, and lets be honest, they're an "attention to driving" TAX... i.e if you're paying attention to the speed limit you wont get "TAXED", but i find it totally offensive that they're budgeting and forcasting revenue from them.

Well, there we go. Confirms what most people already knew, although I must admit I'm surprised at the quantum of the amount........$1.5bn ferchrisakes!!!

This would have to be one of the biggest frauds perpetrated on the public for quite some years. Its a disgrace, not only because its blatant revenue raising under the guise of road safety, but because it compromises the very essence of the message of road safety. Every time the public sees some police spokesperson etc up on TV harping on about road safety and speed etc, the average peron will just dismiss it with a wave of the hand, putting it down to anotehr thinnly veiled message about how the government will yet again use road safety as a means to justify more revenue. End result is even more complacency about road safety than there already is......and god knows we need people to be more vigilant on the roads, not less so.

Then again, we as a public (apparently) keep electing this incumbent Vic government, so we reap what we sow I suppose. But don't blame me..............

[4Vman]

Ok.. lets not mix or confuse speed camera's with the Police.. the Police have nothing to do with speed cameras.
The message about road safety from the Police is VERY valid and relevant, the govt is the one pushing the barrow for revenue raising..

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Yeah. More cameras, more deaths? It's really, really working.

Sure that it may be a voluntary tax, but I dispute this.

Cameras are notoriously unreliable. Just look at the WRR Fiasco. I wouldn't trust any camera, even if you're doing 5 km/h under the limit on your speedo.

Autobahns anyone? Speeding is NOT the main cause of deaths anyway.

You could probably argue that that the reason why deaths are up as well as camera infringements is because people are ignoring the camera's, still speeding and not slowing down?
Like i said, ive got no problems with trying to reduce the road toll, and speed is a component of allot of accidents, but what really annoys me is the govt's blatant admission that they're factoring this $$ as revenue, and effectively looking at ways of increasing it.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ok.. lets not mix or confuse speed camera's with the Police.. the Police have nothing to do with speed cameras.
The message about road safety from the Police is VERY valid and relevant, the govt is the one pushing the barrow for revenue raising..

Personally, I agree with you, but to Joe Average who runs the gauntlet of the Geelong Freeway every day of the working week, the difference between copping $160 fine via a camera fine or via being pulled over by a Highway Patrol car starts to get a touch blurred. People will eventually, by human nature, start to lump the efforts of police influence on road safety into the same general bucket as the speed cameras. The genuine message will be lost over time.

[XR06T]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

This is the worrying bit... the fact that they need the camera revenue to support their budget spending spree's they're renowned for....
The fortunate thing is we can avoid the tax as you say, obey the limits and don't drink the premix sludge!
The only problem with that is where will they turn to next to raise revenue...?

thats an easy one. if noone gets tickets and there is still a road toll (which there will be of course), they will just reduce speed limits until the coffers are full again..