What makes a car Service?

T3rminator · 29-07-2007, 04:43 PM

Can someone (preferably who works as a mechanic that does servicing) tell me what are the activities that make up a service?

I remember ringing a Ford dealership once to tell them i wanted to bring the car in for a service. I asked them not to change the engine oil as I do that myself. The bloke at the other end asked me "well what do you want us to service then if you have changed the oil". I was very surprised as I thought they would normally do safety checks, and wear & tear (clutch, brakes etc) inspections?

savagE · 29-07-2007, 04:49 PM

Typically they just change oil, oil filter, air cleaner, plugs, leads. But even Leads and air cleaner aren't that regular.

The Yeti · 29-07-2007, 05:33 PM

hmmm a service is preventative manitiance or at leaset thats what its suposed to be, what you are discribing about is a lube at best,

Manufacturers do a lot of reasurch in to what needs to be done of the life of a vehicle and this is broken down in to peridodic services open your log book and look, some services are nothing more than a lube and safety check whilst others involve Transmissing oil change and band adjustment, timing belt replacment etc honastly any one that things a service is just an oil change really hant got a clue

having said that and having worked in a dealer ship I can tell you that most dealer ship serivces tick every box in your log book but dont do much mre than an oil change if that

asusdragon · 29-07-2007, 08:10 PM

oil and filter that bout it, nothing agianst any mechanics here but i dont trust them, have had few to many bad experiences with them, the one my GF get her car done at does all the lube and filter and pretty much everything else too like last time that did the rear bearing and somehing else to cant remeber. also they do a safety check too.

macca13 · 29-07-2007, 08:45 PM

My first job was servicing cars at a dealership. Oil and filter change, check fluid levels, lube hinges, check brakes, wheel bearings and suspension, engine and tranny mounts, check tyre wear to see what the wheel alignment is like. Check drive shafts joints, grease anything with a nipple (not needed on most modern cars), check underneath and engine bay for anything loose or out of place and check lights. Took about an hour.

red_hotxr6 · 30-07-2007, 08:30 AM

I thought they changed the gearbox oil and the diff oil as well?

Hunter · 30-07-2007, 11:12 AM

Well in my experience the accepted form of motor vehicle service these days go something like the following:

1) Customer's car arrives. When customer is out of ear-shot / visual range call the apprentice a fing c word and tell him to bring the customer's car in for a 'service'

2) Apprentice gets into customer's car and revs the bollocks off it, perhaps chirps the wheels and leaves a smudge of rubber.

3) Apprentice drives car onto hoist and then haphazardly (if at all) puts the seat protector in. Leaves greasy fingerprints/handprints on the door handle.

4) Mechanic calls apprentice more foul names and tells him to get to work or he won't sign off on his apprenticeship/punch his lights out

5) Apprentice commences 'service'. Depending on how he feels he may or may not actually replace the filter. If he's feeling lazy he'll just give it a wipe (because removing and refitting is too much work).

6) Apprentice drops sump plug and drains oil.

7) Apprentice goes and gets a container of cheap oil from the back shelf.

8) Apprentice uses air tool to do up sump plug thus rendering future removal almost impossible.

9) Apprentice fills car with said cheap oil and spills a little on the engine.

10) Apprentice makes sure car still runs. If so drive it back down off the hoist, do another chirpie and leave it in the car park for customer's return.

11) Customer returns and mechanic fleeces customer for whatever he thinks he will be prepared to pay. Add random line items to invoice and tell customer that some expensive and difficult to remove item will need replacing soon and that if he doesn't want his kids to die in a fireball he should replace it immediately (and at great cost).

The End. Your mileage/experience may vary. I personally don't use mechanics anymore.

sleekism · 30-07-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter

Well in my experience the accepted form of motor vehicle service these days go something like the following:

1) Customer's car arrives. When customer is out of ear-shot / visual range call the apprentice a fing c word and tell him to bring the customer's car in for a 'service'

2) Apprentice gets into customer's car and revs the bollocks off it, perhaps chirps the wheels and leaves a smudge of rubber.

3) Apprentice drives car onto hoist and then haphazardly (if at all) puts the seat protector in. Leaves greasy fingerprints/handprints on the door handle.

4) Mechanic calls apprentice more foul names and tells him to get to work or he won't sign off on his apprenticeship/punch his lights out

5) Apprentice commences 'service'. Depending on how he feels he may or may not actually replace the filter. If he's feeling lazy he'll just give it a wipe (because removing and refitting is too much work).

6) Apprentice drops sump plug and drains oil.

7) Apprentice goes and gets a container of cheap oil from the back shelf.

8) Apprentice uses air tool to do up sump plug thus rendering future removal almost impossible.

9) Apprentice fills car with said cheap oil and spills a little on the engine.

10) Apprentice makes sure car still runs. If so drive it back down off the hoist, do another chirpie and leave it in the car park for customer's return.

11) Customer returns and mechanic fleeces customer for whatever he thinks he will be prepared to pay. Add random line items to invoice and tell customer that some expensive and difficult to remove item will need replacing soon and that if he doesn't want his kids to die in a fireball he should replace it immediately (and at great cost).

The End. Your mileage/experience may vary. I personally don't use mechanics anymore.

Very true indeed!

My experience with Ford service department went like this:

1)Show up early just in time to watch apprentices show up in VL's and Lancers revving the crap out of cars.

2)Pick car up and pay ridiculous bill for what is simply an oil change and given a list of extra things they did like changing lightbulbs etc and given a list of things that need changing like brakes (which I got the dealer I bought it off to change about a week ago). Find my fuel is down a quarter of a tank and there is mud inside the car as well as maccas wrappers.

3)Next morning I check fluid level and find that not is the oil still dirty but it is WAAAAY over the full mark. Looking underneath car I find that my sump plug has been rounded out. Theory is that some idiot must have undone it the wrong way farked it and decided to just pour some oil into the top overfilling it.

4)Find that bulbs that were supposedly changed are still out, their laser wheel allignment was crap and they failed to note some obvious problems on reprt like degraded coolant.

I have mates who are apprentice mechanics and the service department flogs your cars, rarely do anything and overcharge. What is worst as the people I know who work for Ford are diehard Holden supporters and treat all Fords like shite.

My mum complained for ages that her XR6 had a funny knock in the rear suspension but the bastards waited until the warranty ran out before they told her there was a problem.

them and do your own maintenance or find a good mechanic.

T3rminator · 30-07-2007, 03:33 PM

So would it be fair to say it would be more worthwhile to spend $75 getting a RACV inspection for wear and tear say every 1-2 years, rather than relying on service departments to assess?

chippa · 30-07-2007, 04:07 PM

two hardest things to find:
1. Good mech
2. Good panelbeater spraypainter..

I'm one of the lucky ones brother in law is ford trained + works in his dads performance shop of 20 odd years and is authorised ford servicer so my XR6T will never see a dodgy service

Hunter · 30-07-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullthrottle

So would it be fair to say it would be more worthwhile to spend $75 getting a RACV inspection for wear and tear say every 1-2 years, rather than relying on service departments to assess?

Yep. I know in QLD at least that the RACQ does the inspection and you could consider it fairly impartial as they don't do repairs and they have nothing to lose or gain by telling you the truth. Even though they could make an incorrect diagnosis I'd much rather trust the opinion of an experienced RACQ inspector than some greasy sleaze bag mechanic looking to rip me off.

macca13 · 30-07-2007, 05:19 PM

All I can say is that you guys need to find better workshops and even though I do my own servicing I still put the car on a hoist every now and then to have a good look and check over, and yes I have been bitten by dealer services on new cars luckily the dealerships service reception area overlooked the workshop, it's amazing how much more care is taken when they know you are watching or that you check the car as soon as you get the keys and come back to question them.

**Full Noise** · 30-07-2007, 05:33 PM

Make sure that other fluids like the windscreen washer reservoir are full before the vehicle goes in for a service, as they tend to top these up and look forward to seeing your face when you receive the bill and find that they charged you $15 for 30 mls of dishwashing liquid and 300mls of water.

Little things like this can help prevent an assault charge when you jump the desk explaining to the service manager how wrong this is with your hands around his throat.

Yellow_Festiva · 30-07-2007, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter

11) Customer returns and mechanic fleeces customer for whatever he thinks he will be prepared to pay. Add random line items to invoice and tell customer that some expensive and difficult to remove item will need replacing soon and that if he doesn't want his kids to die in a fireball he should replace it immediately (and at great cost).

The End. Your mileage/experience may vary. I personally don't use mechanics anymore.

No, that's pretty much spot on.

It's funny how it is almost accepted as the norm that you will get shafted when getting a service.

Geeze, looking back at my recipts while my car was under warranty I must have been nuts.

I moved area and used a new service place. I would make bets with my partner as to how soon my phone would ring with the bad news that my car was close to imploding.

They get you either way. If you tell them that you want a call before they do any "extra" work then they load up the bill with oil additives.
Funny how that isn't mentioned on the service leaflet......

Van D · 30-07-2007, 11:36 PM

What I don't get is, how the hell are most mechanics in the lower wage category? A friend of mine took her Corolla to Midas and got brakes done.. A new pair of brake pads, some fluid and an oil/filter change later, she was out of pocket $850!!

nb_351 · 31-07-2007, 12:04 AM

i tell you what you should come somewhere like our work...
if i did something like mentioned, i would shoot myself, let alone what anyone else would do if they found out...
i actually take pride in my work, and used to work at a certain huge dealership, and it was a lot like you all mentioned, change the oil and filter, and unless something bites you with obviousness, it doesnt need doing... do it as cheaply as possible...
i now work at a tyre shop doing all the mechanical work... basically if i dont produce quality work, i dont have a job, and if i dont have a job, i have no xe, house etc...
i believe in being honest, and actually showing the customer whats wrong, if anything...
and then showing the replaced part and explaining it all... and only charge cost price plus 10%
but thats just the way i do it, youll never know unless you find the right place... i nnow theres many more out there, but theres too many shonkies out there...

nb_351 · 31-07-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popinfresh

What I don't get is, how the hell are most mechanics in the lower wage category? A friend of mine took her Corolla to Midas and got brakes done.. A new pair of brake pads, some fluid and an oil/filter change later, she was out of pocket $850!!

for that work, say the pads cost $60, 4 litres of oil, a $10 filter and some brake fluid, would cost ano more than 200, including labour through us...
its something with women, they think they can take advantage of them and charge through the roof, tell them they needed new flux capacitators and they needed a rebuilt hubcap...
add 400 on the bill and they just had a weekend at the races...

Hunter · 31-07-2007, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popinfresh

What I don't get is, how the hell are most mechanics in the lower wage category? A friend of mine took her Corolla to Midas and got brakes done.. A new pair of brake pads, some fluid and an oil/filter change later, she was out of pocket $850!!

No no mechanics are very well compensated for the efforts of their apprentices... or at least the workshop itself is. That's why they love apprentices so much - they pay them bugger all and treat them like dirt. I don't know what they earn nowadays but several years ago an apprentice could expect something like $150 a week for their efforts and no doubt the mechanics make a lot more than that in a given week.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nb_351

i tell you what you should come somewhere like our work...
if i did something like mentioned, i would shoot myself, let alone what anyone else would do if they found out...
i actually take pride in my work, and used to work at a certain huge dealership, and it was a lot like you all mentioned, change the oil and filter, and unless something bites you with obviousness, it doesnt need doing... do it as cheaply as possible...
i now work at a tyre shop doing all the mechanical work... basically if i dont produce quality work, i dont have a job, and if i dont have a job, i have no xe, house etc...
i believe in being honest, and actually showing the customer whats wrong, if anything...
and then showing the replaced part and explaining it all... and only charge cost price plus 10%
but thats just the way i do it, youll never know unless you find the right place... i nnow theres many more out there, but theres too many shonkies out there...

People like you are rare these days dude... Simply finding a shop that will actually do a proper wheel alignment (one of the few things I have to visit a shop for) is really quite painful.

I still remember the time my father took his Commodore to a suspension shop to get the front swaybar bushes done... the knobheads put the bushes in without lubing them up and well they failed about 1-2 months later. They reluctantly repaired them but even so, how bloody hard is it to just put lube on when its required?

Kryton · 31-07-2007, 12:16 AM

my next (first service with the BA) is at Ford only because i want to make sure there are no fault codes, it has the latest flash doesnt have any outstanding recalls and to give them 1 last final chance.
even though i am (in their own words) the "most difficult customer they have", they have gone beyond the call of duty on the odd occasion and done the right thing. thats not to say they havent done the complete opposite either.
i have no warranty, i have no need for Ford service after this.

nb_351 · 31-07-2007, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter

No no mechanics are very well compensated for the efforts of their apprentices... or at least the workshop itself is. That's why they love apprentices so much - they pay them bugger all and treat them like dirt. I don't know what they earn nowadays but several years ago an apprentice could expect something like $150 a week for their efforts and no doubt the mechanics make a lot more than that in a given week.

People like you are rare these days dude... Simply finding a shop that will actually do a proper wheel alignment (one of the few things I have to visit a shop for) is really quite painful.

I still remember the time my father took his Commodore to a suspension shop to get the front swaybar bushes done... the knobheads put the bushes in without lubing them up and well they failed about 1-2 months later. They reluctantly repaired them but even so, how bloody hard is it to just put lube on when its required?

the lube comes in the bag with the bushes ffs lol
i did a kb laser today, charged him 250, we did cv shafts, all lower control arm bushes, and rack mount rubbers...
took me less than an hour...
we could have charged him upwards of 500 for it, but the parts only cost us like 150, plus gst and some labour...
the quicker you get it out, the quicker you can start the next job, which was a starting a front end rebuild on a ch valiant ute with a 340...
should be fun...
all in a days work... i love it...

nb_351 · 31-07-2007, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

my next (first service with the BA) is at Ford only because i want to make sure there are no fault codes, it has the latest flash doesnt have any outstanding recalls and to give them 1 last final chance.
even though i am (in their own words) the "most difficult customer they have", they have gone beyond the call of duty on the odd occasion and done the right thing. thats not to say they havent done the complete opposite either.
i have no warranty, i have no need for Ford service after this.

they only call you that probably cause you want whats supposed to be done for your money etc...
ford training is odne at the same tafe i went to, just a different room...

kpcart · 31-07-2007, 05:22 AM

i went into a mechanic place and asked i could get a tune up for my previous car, which had carby. they said there is no such thing as a 'tune up' anymore, and that its a service... and starts at $169 or something, which included crap i didnt want done, like spray glossing tyres etc. all i wanted was an engine tune, so i asked, can i just get an engine tune up, and again he says there is no such think as a tune up. place was MIDAS in MIDLAND,W.A. i dont take my car to mechanics anymore, last time i took a car for a 'service' mechanic ended up charing me $450, and a few days later i found the rocker cover was bolts were loose. am i allowed to post his name too? in midvale and drives a ford ute.

mowog · 31-07-2007, 06:41 AM

We had a first year in his first week (and last week) fill an engine with oil. By that I mean he filled it to the rocker cover!

The Yeti · 31-07-2007, 07:40 AM

Every one bags the mechanic yet almost all the above experances are with a dealer or franchise like midus, ultra tune etc, there are literaly thousands of reperatable mechanics out there but they all get tared wit hthe same brush based on Joe customer having taken there car to said mechanic for their advertised $29 lube geting none of the other work the mechanic recomended done (becasue as we know there jsut rying to rip us off) and then complaining that he did nothing and it still runs like crap.

do some reasurch ask around and if your car needs the work get it done