Police and detecting speeders techniques

Black XR6 · 16-03-2005, 10:07 PM

Whilst driving up to newcastle recently more specifically just as you enter belmont there is a park on the left. In this park is a table with chairs. The usual style of wooden table and chair set for bbq's.

As I drove past I saw a cop walk next to the road and motion for the car in front of me to pull into the side street. I look over and on said table is a policeman with a speed detector. He is aiming it back down the road. Now, the table has to be a good 15m from the roadside. No sign was displayed approaching the area stating speed checks were being undertaken.

What are the actual rules these days. Specifically in NSW. Are police still required to display signage to state they are using radar detectors in the area? I thought this was probably the sneakiest I have seen from the cops in NSW atleast.

svo347 · 16-03-2005, 10:12 PM

In WA handhelds require no signage, Multinova's on the otherhand do.

GTP 320 · 16-03-2005, 10:42 PM

Same as Victoria,no signs are required,they are cunning little devils lol
Cheers John

Dave_au · 17-03-2005, 12:13 AM

Only speed cameras require signs in NSW - what your describing is completely legal. They don't even need to pull you over, they can just write down your plates and send you the fine these days.

XA-Coupe · 17-03-2005, 01:17 AM

Funnily enough, the greater the angle to the direction the target is travelling to the radar, the less the reading will be... being 15M off the road actually works in favour of the people driving.. not much bu these days it all helps.

Yaw · 17-03-2005, 06:38 AM

Signage....before speed cameras are used ????
whats the point of that.
Having said that though I don't see the point of the QLD idea that has the signage after the speed camera.

RED_EL_XR8 · 17-03-2005, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Only speed cameras require signs in NSW - what your describing is completely legal. They don't even need to pull you over, they can just write down your plates and send you the fine these days.

No, handheld radar in NSW also requires signage read the regulations!

But Bob and his merry band of extortionists have been busy as usual. Dont always expect to see the the familiar portable roadside sandwich board speed trap signs. Those generally meaningless fixed Camera Icon, and "Speed Cameras used in this area" signs are sufficient for compliance.

Dave_au · 17-03-2005, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

No, handheld radar in NSW also requires signage read the regulations!

Mate, I disagree, thats news to me. Can you provide me a link?

sbutler · 17-03-2005, 11:48 AM

If the cops were standing 15 m of the road, I wonder what would have hapened if you would have just drove on? if it went in front of a beak, and you said you simply didn't see them how you'd go...

RED_EL_XR8 · 17-03-2005, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Mate, I disagree, thats news to me. Can you provide me a link?

Only link I could find quickly was to the 1909 Act itself. http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregul...ads/table2.pdf its in ammendments to 4AB or 4AC.

I cant get into the law society one without a password, and in true government form the act is both hard to obtain and is written in legal jibberish. a bit more googleling should find an answer.

Dave_au · 17-03-2005, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Only link I could find quickly was to the 1909 Act itself. http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregul...ads/table2.pdf its in ammendments to 4AB or 4AC.

I cant get into the law society one without a password, and in true government form the act is both hard to obtain and is written in legal jibberish. a bit more googleling should find an answer.

Here is the new act here - http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/n...rtatma1999412/

Does not include any infomation on the sign requirements for speed cameras or speed radar devices. That being said, I can vouch a police officer does not require the use of a sign while he uses the laser unit. Im not talking about the camera unit here, Im talking about the hairdryer style radar.

big_pete · 17-03-2005, 03:58 PM

ive never seen signage for cops with radars in NSW - never.

there shouldnt be a warning, if your speeding, you should be fined. simple as that

TheSneakiness · 17-03-2005, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaw

Signage....before speed cameras are used ????
whats the point of that.
Having said that though I don't see the point of the QLD idea that has the signage after the speed camera.

That probably shows which direction they're aiming the cameras at.

RED_EL_XR8 · 17-03-2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_pete

ive never seen signage for cops with radars in NSW - never.

Well they cannot exist then, can they. You dont get out much do you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_pete

there shouldnt be a warning, if your speeding, you should be fined. simple as that

So safety isn't the issue after all? We dont want to slow down motorist we want to entrap them? Not to mention the OH&S risks to police working from a roadway.

If you are advocating total acceptance of all speed limits, and you are also advocating that NSW speed traps are never located in positions where simply coasting will allow an increase in road speed, then go ahead. Do a google search on the pedestrian council they are always looking for volunteers (fanatics) to help their cause.

The last point of disscussion was not whether police used warning signs for non camera speed traps. They do!!
What is unsure is whether or not it is a legal requirement for them to ALWAYS do so. I believed it was, Dave_au does not.

Sourbastard · 17-03-2005, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_pete

ive never seen signage for cops with radars in NSW - never.

there shouldnt be a warning, if your speeding, you should be fined. simple as that

if the law was simple, there would be no lawyers. There are ALWAYS mitigating circumstances that can effect even the simplest law.

Black XR6 · 18-03-2005, 12:04 AM

If you kept driving I am sure there would be a car stationed further down the road to grab you. Plus, when the cops spotted a speeding car, one of them would walk to the side of the road and motion for the offending car to pull over. Im guessing if you just drove off you would be in a world of sh!t soon afterwards.

Dave_au · 18-03-2005, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

What is unsure is whether or not it is a legal requirement for them to ALWAYS do so. I believed it was, Dave_au does not.

A. Its not in the legislation that they require a sign for radar operations
B. Its not in the highway patrol standard operating proceedures for radar duties attached below.
C. Its the mere police presense they are trying to advocate when conducting radar operations.
D. The only sign they have to use while stationary is the stop police sign when pulling over cars.

I can put up the highway patrol SOPs later

The sandwichboard you refer to is only used for the speed camera cars.

RED_EL_XR8 · 18-03-2005, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

A. Its not in the legislation that they require a sign for radar operations
B. Its not in the highway patrol standard operating proceedures for radar duties attached below.
C. Its the mere police presense they are trying to advocate when conducting radar operations.
D. The only sign they have to use while stationary is the stop police sign when pulling over cars.

I can put up the highway patrol SOPs later

The sandwichboard you refer to is only used for the speed camera cars.

I read through the SOP and there definately is no mention of it there for handheld Radar or Laser. As for reading through the act, well its about as exiting to read as the yellow pages.

Portable speed cameras do require the use of fixed or mobile signage but looks like you are right that it is not mandatory for hairdryers, must just be more than a few coppers with a sense of fairplay. On the other hand there are those that test the limits.

See the commie illegally parked on the nature before the sign. Sign should say smile you've just been taxed.

Dave_au · 18-03-2005, 11:04 AM

Yeah I agree that the speed camera cars have to use the sign. Luckily in Sydney these days most of the camera cars are now marked police wagons - often missing the police sticker on the tailboot - but you can usually pick the beacons up pretty well.

I have the sops for the Highway Patrol radar that I can put up later on if anyone wants me to.

Black XR6 · 18-03-2005, 11:34 AM

Oh then, whilst on the topic of fines.

If two cars run a red light and both are in the frame of the cameras shot. Do both get fined or do both get off. I have been told both will get off as the cops dont know which one ran the red.

Same for speeding cameras. If two cars go past the camera side by side and are both in the speed cameras shot, do both get off again as they do not know which one id speeding. Or does the camera mark the photo with what speed each car is doing in the photograph?

Dave_au · 18-03-2005, 02:00 PM

Both will get off - unless the speed camera is lane specific - this also applies to red light cameras eg, right turn lanes are usually not policed by the red light camera, however I've been told that redlight cameras will take three photos to determine velocity - I assume that they may let you off if you just rolled onto the sensor, or whether your having difficulty pulling up.

Black XR6 · 18-03-2005, 05:51 PM

Well, the difficulty pulling up wont get you off even if supported by three photos showing velocity. I have been booked for red light a infringement in a work van fully loaded. I tried my best to stop but rolled over the line, realising I was going to finish up in the intersection, I put the foot down and and continued on through the intersection.

I recieved a fine for running the light.