Motorcyclists must hold car licence, experts say

The MaDDeSTMaN · 29-07-2005, 07:48 PM

LuvinmyEB sent me a link to a rather interesting article...

Quote:

Motorcyclists must hold car licence, experts say

Motorcycle licences should be given only to people who are already licensed to drive a car, according to a new study that recommends a radical overhaul of motorcycle licensing laws.

The study, by researchers at Monash University's Accident Research Centre, finds that licence regulations for motorcyclists are inconsistent across Australia and do not meet the highest international standards.

It also recommends that motorcycle licences should be regarded as separate and higher-class qualifications than car licences, and that they be made more expensive to obtain.

http://australianit.news.com.au/arti...nbv%5E,00.html

Opinions?

DanielXR8 · 29-07-2005, 08:12 PM

I would of thought it would be far better if everyone had a motorcycle license first. I have always felt that motorcycle riders, make the best car drivers when it comes to situational awareness. You don't survive on a bike if you dont learn that skill.

As for making them harder to get - there may be a case for it, if it is motivated by the right reasons. Car licenses should also be much harder to get, but since governments would loose elections over it as ten of thousands of drivers lost their licenses permanantly and ten of thousands more would have to learn how to drive again, before being suitably skilled enough to regain a license, I know I wont live to see it. Also universities would loose lucrative funding over publishing those kind of outcomes and recommendations, while P platers and motorcyclists, which make up a small part of the road going public, are much easier to vilify.

Monash Uni has produced so many questionable outcomes in its research, that I have begun to think they are working in cohoots with Toyota to increase sales of four cyclinder Camry’s, by systematically making anything else illegal.

Now where did I put my cardigan thats in road safety fluro yellow.

Daniel

merlin · 29-07-2005, 08:30 PM

Hmm...

Sure experienced riders possess better road skills than most car drivers but perhaps having a car license first is a better way to go i.e. it's almost like the whole P plater high powered car debate - someone once used the example of you learn to fly a Cessna before an F18.

When you first learn to ride you are preoccupied with how to operate the bike - i.e. trying not to fall over; wobbling around corners ect.. Now if you already know your roadcraft this is OK, but if you are an utter NOOB to the road AND trying to operate the controls of a bike for the first time it could be quite difficult.

But one thing for sure is like it or not bikes are going to become more popular with the rising petrol prices - making it harder to get a bike license may not be a good political decision also at a time when traffic congestion is getting worse and worse, bikes should be encouraged.

Meh...I'm really not too sure on this one.

29-07-2005, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

Hmm...

Sure experienced riders possess better road skills than most car drivers but perhaps having a car license first is a better way to go i.e. it's almost like the whole P plater high powered car debate - someone once used the example of you learn to fly a Cessna before an F18.

When you first learn to ride you are preoccupied with how to operate the bike - i.e. trying not to fall over; wobbling around corners ect.. Now if you already know your roadcraft this is OK, but if you are an utter NOOB to the road AND trying to operate the controls of a bike for the first time it could be quite difficult.

But one thing for sure is like it or not bikes are going to become more popular with the rising petrol prices - making it harder to get a bike license may not be a good political decision also at a time when traffic congestion is getting worse and worse, bikes should be encouraged.

Meh...I'm really not too sure on this one.

Oh god not the cessna to jetfighter is the same as family car to family car with 25% more power argument again, its worse than the chewbacca defense.

:

Any way I guess the main thing is its not a huge deal if a new driver has a minor accident hitting something at 20km/h in a car where as you can die from a very minor accident on a bike. Most bikes arn't as forgiving as cars, sport bikes are alot closer to a race bike than a xr8 is to a racecar.

SunDrifter · 29-07-2005, 09:40 PM

I think people should be regularly tested to continue holding a licence. There should also be an awareness test for pedestrians and motorcyclists. If i didn't nearly get run over 3 times in a 2 week span by people that didn't look for me on my ZX-6R, i'd probably still have it, rather then selling it because its too bloody dangerous on the streets for a street bike now!

<edit>In essance, i believe that car drivers should hold a motorcycle licence! More often then not, accidents that involve a car and a motorcycle are the car drivers fault!

</end burbon soaked message!>

csv8 · 29-07-2005, 10:17 PM

Didn't see Harold Scruby's name , he usually spouts this kind of bull!
Motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers, 70% of the time. FACT.
Yet , riders get the stupid laws,not car drivers.
And yes I drive and ride. Harley and a Fairmont V8.
mmmm V8 Harley nice idea. There are 2000cc and 2500cc Harley's coming.!!!!

parawolf · 29-07-2005, 10:34 PM

Quote:

The study, by researchers at Monash University's Accident Research Centre, finds that licence regulations for motorcyclists are inconsistent across Australia and do not meet the highest international standards.

Problem here, is that our car licencing does not meet the highest international standards. Our licencing rules in Australia are crap compared to most of Europe.

Its that simple

Pilch · 29-07-2005, 10:47 PM

It's pretty simple as an argument really, your life is a lot more vulnerable on a bike than in a car, so you need to be more qualified to have a good chance of survival!

I think what has already been pointed out though, is that it is more an issue of upping the required testing / education / qualification of car drivers to make the roads safer.

I'd suggest that the people in out community that have passed a motorcycle or heavy vehicle test in the last 10 years (roughly) would be generally better road goer's than the day-to-day car licence only drivers and people that got any form of licence before the last 10 years (ie. pre 1995ish).

There is a stat that says the most accident prone people on motorcyles are people aged 35+ This is not due to experience, but education and self-preservation skills that are now taught in combination with obtaining a motorcycle licence.

I think i'm just ranting now, but anyway my point is more education is required across the entire licencing system, especially car licences. Regular re-testing & eduaction every, say, 5 or 10 years would be a good idea too I would think!!!

T_Terror · 30-07-2005, 02:26 AM

Hey teh study was done by Monash University.
Those are teh same goons who conveniently make up statistics and other bs for the governments revenue raising campaign.

After all, isnt it a fact that 95% of statistics are inaccurate...

jonbays · 30-07-2005, 08:38 AM

Sad truth is it won't be politically viable to do the right thing about licensing.

In reality not everyone sould be able to get a licence.

about 20% probably of the current driving population would get failed on an rigourous testing progaram and about 95% of the driving population would lose their licence on demerits if data logging was fitted to their cars.

Basicly the driving laws are stupid the testing procedure too easy and licence for life is a joke.

How about a lifetime scheme for road use licences for pushbikes at 1o mopeds at 12, motor cyles at 15, cars at 18, high powered cars and motor cycles at 21 retesting every 10 years minimum etc.

**Falcon Coupe** · 30-07-2005, 08:58 AM

I think it's a great idea, all except the higher price for the bike licence, that sounds like another brax tax like the $50.00 fee on rego to save riders from themself, a couple of adds for a month then the rest in bracks pockets........

BOSS 540 · 30-07-2005, 09:05 AM

I rode bikes for years before cars and its probably helped me become a lot more aware of potential problems when driving. For instance, recognising when others are just about to change lanes on top of you. IMO part of the car licenceing tests should also incorporate much more about making new drivers more "motorcycle aware". Those that ride and drive certainly have a better understanding of making sure you dont accidentally kill someone on a bike. "Volvo aware rider" stickers come to mind!

**Falcon Coupe** · 30-07-2005, 09:09 AM

I believe it's safer to learn the flow of the road in a car before jumpimg in the deep end on a bike, that said, if all car owners were made to ride a bike for a week, they would be more considerate on the road.

merlin · 30-07-2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardmech

Oh god not the cessna to jetfighter is the same as family car to family car with 25% more power argument again, its worse than the chewbacca defense.

:
.

lol as soon as i hit submit on that cessna quote i knew you would reply

:

MYV8 · 30-07-2005, 11:05 AM

Maybe they should change the testing procedures for car drivers to be more in line with motorcyle licensing!!!!!!
When they introduced L-Plate and P-Plate riding courses, which incorporates awareness, bike control, emergency braking etc, plus limiting engine capacity/output, the injury and fatality statistics went down significantly for motorcyclists.

They should have a similar test for car drivers, instead of:-

"Drive around the block, don't exceed 50kph, stop at the stop sign, do a 3 point turn without crashing."

"You done well, here is your licence. Go buy a WRX, put your blinkers/tunnel vision on and go out and kill as many people as possible."

I have been riding/driving in excess of 35 years, had two car accidents, both hit up the **** on a motorway in gridlock and one motorcycle crash on a racetrack with no injury.
I beleive that the awareness required to ride in a place like Sydney has saved me on numerous occasions from tunnel visioned ****ers, whilst in my car and on the bike.

My son rode in Sydney for 5 years before he decided to get a car licence.
When he got this he had to start on his red P's.
I thought this was crap so went and saw the RTA. The Manager who was also a rider said he believes my son deserves a medal for lasting so long without getting killed on his bike, but the law say's he has to start again with his car licence.
I also wrote to my local MP with no results.

Sox · 30-07-2005, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I think it's a great idea, all except the higher price for the bike licence, that sounds like another brax tax like the $50.00 fee on rego to save riders from themself, a couple of adds for a month then the rest in bracks pockets........

What he said.

Rick.

shane3 · 30-07-2005, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

Hmm...

Sure experienced riders possess better road skills than most car drivers but perhaps having a car license first is a better way to go i.e. it's almost like the whole P plater high powered car debate - someone once used the example of you learn to fly a Cessna before an F18.

When you first learn to ride you are preoccupied with how to operate the bike - i.e. trying not to fall over; wobbling around corners ect.. Now if you already know your roadcraft this is OK, but if you are an utter NOOB to the road AND trying to operate the controls of a bike for the first time it could be quite difficult.

But one thing for sure is like it or not bikes are going to become more popular with the rising petrol prices - making it harder to get a bike license may not be a good political decision also at a time when traffic congestion is getting worse and worse, bikes should be encouraged.

Meh...I'm really not too sure on this one.

I was part of that survey team on the MRA (Motorcycle Riders Association of Australia) former membership sec, and the facts are that on a standard DRIVING test 95% of the bike riders were better car drivers then the people that had not ridden a bike at all, because of the skills needed to avoid the car drivers the bike riders were better car drivers....due to better observation skills and reaction times.

Its a lot harder to get your motorbike licence then it is to get your car licence as you don't have any one sitting next to you to tell you what you are doing wrong.