Holden exports facing stop sign

Sprint XR8 · 29-11-2008, 11:40 AM

HOLDEN'S export program to the US will hang in the balance next week as General Motors considers ditching the Pontiac brand and 11,000 unsold export Commodores gather dust.

Adelaide-built Commodores are shipped to the US as Pontiac G8s, but GM is reviewing prospects for three of its eight divisions, with Pontiac top of the list, in a desperate bid to cut costs and secure $US50 billion ($76 billion) in federal funds.

The plan, which must be ready for US legislators by next weekend, leaves a question mark over the future of Pontiac, Saab and Saturn, according to Bloomberg reports, while Hummer is already up for sale.

The Holden-built Pontiac G8 is part of the problem, as it is struggling to find buyers.

Just 13,000 have been bought since shipments began at the beginning of the year, and inventory levels exceed 11,000 cars -- or 283 days' supply -- the third-worst for any GM model, according to specialist US website Automotive News.

Potential Pontiac G8 buyers must now factor in an uncertain future for the brand.

"It's a challenging business environment for carmakers around the world," said a spokesman for GM Holden, Jonathan Rose. "We're very proud of our export program."

He denied Holden was adding to Pontiac's woes, and said export shipments were continuing. Mr Rose played down reports yesterday that Holden is planning to build a four-cylinder car alongside the Commodore.

"We're looking at many options," he said.

"But we don't have any announcement to make."

The 82-year-old Pontiac division is one of GM's oldest, but its "affordable performance" models peaked in the 1970s.

The Holden Monaro built here until three years ago was used to revive the famous Pontiac GTO nameplate, and 32,000 were sold stateside between 2003 and 2005.

But Pontiac's 1000 US dealers have been hit hard by the collapse of the car market, with sales down 21 per cent this year.

Despite this, Holden is adding a high-performance G8 version to the line-up, and the Commodore Ute, rebadged as the Pontiac G8 Sports Truck, will be exported late next year.

Holden desperately needs fresh overseas markets to keep its Adelaide factory running, with Commodore sales down 16per cent this year.

The company expected US demand for Pontiac G8s to boost exports, but recently announced plans to shut its factory for 25 days in the first quarter next year, in addition to its four-week Christmas holiday closure.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-13232,00.html

Daymoe · 29-11-2008, 11:50 AM

Holden is copping the bad media coverage now, except they'll end up curing cancer.

**Fordman1** · 29-11-2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daymoe

Holden is copping the bad media coverage now, except they'll end up curing cancer.

Someone will say that in the media, but a month later GMH will be in a "serious condition" from it.

We haven't heard the last of this.

Mark my words, there will be HUGE job losses at Holden over the next 4 months.

phillyc · 29-11-2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daymoe

Holden is copping the bad media coverage now, except they'll end up curing cancer.

Well, i'm hoping that our FordForums campaign to Carsguide and Drive have started to take effect. At least stopping those two from publishing lies and bias against Ford has helped. They at least know that it won't be tolerated and are at least likely to think before again publishing such drivel like we had last week.

Now the bad news articles are about Holden and are at least based in fact.

I'd much rather it be them copping the criticism than Ford!

Daymoe · 29-11-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

Well, i'm hoping that our FordForums campaign to Carsguide and Drive have started to take effect. At least stopping those two from publishing lies and bias against Ford has helped. They at least know that it won't be tolerated and are at least likely to think before again publishing such drivel like we had last week.

Now the bad news articles are about Holden and are at least based in fact.

I'd much rather it be them copping the criticism than Ford!

That campaign you guys took up must have done something, because it made them crack it and delete all your comments. They can't take it when you present a logical argument, instead they spin crap and have a sook when they get proven wrong.

Holden with job losses in the next 4 months ey? I've got some ammunition to defend Ford against all my Holden friends then.

ltd · 29-11-2008, 12:31 PM

GM will go bust as the US senate doesn't want to bail out the big three, and Holden will probably be sold to a cashed up Indian company like Tata or chinese company. Imagine the marketing campaign for Holden now; "Daewoos go better".

**Falcon Coupe** · 29-11-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

GM will go bust as the US senate doesn't want to bail out the big three, and Holden will probably be sold to a cashed up Indian company like Tata or chinese company. Imagine the marketing campaign for Holden now; "Daewoos go better".

Tata are on the edge of bankruptcy too, the Chinese may the only ones who can afford it.

phillyc · 29-11-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daymoe

That campaign you guys took up must have done something, because it made them crack it and delete all your comments. They can't take it when you present a logical argument, instead they spin crap and have a sook when they get proven wrong.

Holden with job losses in the next 4 months ey? I've got some ammunition to defend Ford against all my Holden friends then.

So, if you find a clearly biased and incorrect article, add the link to the "MediaWatch" thread to help others fight it!

Whilst your at it, post logical comments to weaken the publishers article on the relevant website.

PS Yep, the article seems to have been removed twice now. The second after being re-written permanently!

mr smith · 29-11-2008, 01:49 PM

Word filtering in from some people in the know is that Holdens ( GM ) dont have the money to pay people their entitlements, not redundancies but holidays etc. They are broke.

**Fordman1** · 29-11-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr smith

Word filtering in from some people in the know is that Holdens ( GM ) dont have the money to pay people their entitlements, not redundancies but holidays etc. They are broke.

This could end in tears if Holden also struggle to pay their bills.

Ford and Holden have many common suppliers, Holden's problems could also become Fords.

:

burnz · 29-11-2008, 02:24 PM

contrary to popular beleivef holden never had an export market in usa and never will "american job's for american people" (richard nixon, ronald regan, gw busch jr)
the idea is to sell for one year to test sale's then "tool up" simple plan.

the only exports are middle east under chev badging (GM's flagship) nothing more nothing less.

Gobes32 · 29-11-2008, 02:30 PM

I have always believed Holden are in a much more dangerous position than Ford. Their mantra appears to be "sell our way out of trouble", but if people aren't buying large cars then you find yourself in a lot of trouble very quickly.

Sprint XR8 · 29-11-2008, 02:37 PM

In Germany it has been revealed GM currently owe Opel over a billion euros.
Holden are no doubt in the same position, GM probably have not paid for the vehicles already sent over.

ltd · 29-11-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Tata are on the edge of bankruptcy too, the Chinese may the only ones who can afford it.

Mate, whilst it would be horrible for the many employees and their families, it is not a brand I will miss. We still get their mini trucks and I have seen a couple of their cars here; the very thing that would completely undermine ford due to their ridiculously low price.
As stated in another thread, ford USA is looking as though it may survive and unlike any other brand in the USA they are the only ones researching and developing new products. As Alan Mulally (Ford god) says; we should be building the cars people really want to buy. Case in point (and the reason he took one home) the G6E-T.

burnz · 29-11-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I have always believed Holden are in a much more dangerous position than Ford. Their mantra appears to be "sell our way out of trouble", but if people aren't buying large cars then you find yourself in a lot of trouble very quickly.

i dont know about holden mantra !!
but ford have done well to lift their game and pulled back from the brink so to speak.
but holden, more accuratly GM have made a balls of it, and some of the probem are wrong place wrong time (middle of 3billion restucture, then eco down turn, crap happens) but they shoud'nt have exposed them self that much.
and holden is simply on a bad GM ride.

Wally · 29-11-2008, 06:25 PM

Yet another thread about the demise of Holden. Where do you guys get this stuff... the same oracle that predicted the FG wiping the floor with the VE? Rumour and inuendo is the traditional fodder for fishwives, how about you leave it at that.

4Vman · 29-11-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Yet another thread about the demise of Holden. Where do you guys get this stuff... the same oracle that predicted the FG wiping the floor with the VE? Rumour and inuendo is the traditional fodder for fishwives, how about you leave it at that.

What? and we don't get enough doom and gloom about Ford too? at least the truth is finally out and we know Holden are in a worse situation than Ford, rather than the other way around which seems to be Misreported..

**Whoosha** · 29-11-2008, 06:56 PM

Food for thought though. at the moment in Melbourne alone we have in excess of 20000 motor vechicals and trucks in storage from nearly 2000 commodores at fowles nearly as many Fords in various holding yards and more imported cars than you could imagine in paddocks on the outskirts of laverton.. Australia wide there are 200000 motor vechicals sitting in paddocks and storage yards so don't think for a moment this is just a GM..or..FOMOCO problem,, serious times ahead :togo:

ltd · 29-11-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Yet another thread about the demise of Holden. Where do you guys get this stuff... the same oracle that predicted the FG wiping the floor with the VE? Rumour and inuendo is the traditional fodder for fishwives, how about you leave it at that.

Wally, there has been widely reported evidence that Holden's parent company GM is on the brink of collapse and the US senate have publically stated that they aren't likely to bail them out; members here discussing this aren't doing it out of some obscure hatred of Holden at all, some members here work in the industry and know what flow on effect it would have to the industry and evidently, have become worried. It is not a thread about bagging holden out at all for as mentioned elsewhere, if one of the big three collapse it will have repercussions on the whole automotive industry including suppliers.

Gobes32 · 29-11-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whoosha

Food for thought though. at the moment in Melbourne alone we have in excess of 20000 motor vechicals and trucks in storage from nearly 2000 commodores at fowles nearly as many Fords in various holding yards and more imported cars than you could imagine in paddocks on the outskirts of laverton.. Australia wide there are 200000 motor vechicals sitting in paddocks and storage yards so don't think for a moment this is just a GM..or..FOMOCO problem,, serious times ahead :togo:

I can guarantee you that by the end of December there will only be a handful of Austrailan built Fords there, There will be no G6E's, Territory, XR6T or utes. That I am positive of.

GS608 · 29-11-2008, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I can guarantee you that by the end of December there will only be a handful of Austrailan built Fords there, There will be no G6E's, Territory, XR6T or utes. That I am positive of.

how so?

mr smith · 29-11-2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Yet another thread about the demise of Holden. Where do you guys get this stuff... the same oracle that predicted the FG wiping the floor with the VE? Rumour and inuendo is the traditional fodder for fishwives, how about you leave it at that.

All I can say is that I deal daily with people who are at ground zero with the local car industries. We see the real deal, no media hype, or internet s$%t, just the facts and the facts are we are in trouble. My job will go down with the local car industry, I could say a lot more but this will do for now.

Paxton · 29-11-2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

how so?

It's as good as build to order with the Aussie Fords. They are downing tools in December to re-tool for 111 (new Territory), which will cause a large ramp-up again from January until the Melbourne motor show when they go on sale.

Ford's stock control with the Aussie Fords has also been pretty good/excellent.

HSVKILLA · 29-11-2008, 11:59 PM

For holden the rain clouds are moving in fast but fortunatly for Ford the sunshine has been coming for sometime now,i have felt this for years and finally i am being proved right.People have been fast to dismiss Ford for anything and everything they do but now and only now will now Fords negative remarks and down bringing result in a positive result for all us deep felt Ford followers that trust and follow our brand through thick and thin.Long live the Henry!.

Bossxr8 · 30-11-2008, 04:19 PM

Ford have made pretty serious moves to decrease their stock levels over the past few months, I haven't worked a 5 day week for probably 4-5 months. Mostly 3 and 4 day weeks and a really big christmas shutdown, so the stock numbers must have dropped well down in that time.

Holden haven't done any of that lately so they must have stock coming out of their clacker, and its only now they have started to move on it, which is way too late. I'd hate to know how many unsold cars they have.

phillyc · 30-11-2008, 06:05 PM

I put this whole credit crunch and slowing to everyone wanting everything now. Part of my particular hatred of these interest free deals that have plagued us for years.

When I was in sales I was expected to make 1 in 3 sales a sale on interest free terms, because otherwise they wouldn't buy. After a few months of that I left.

The retailers first started with 6mths, then it went to 12mths, 24mths, 3yrs and less than 6mths ago I saw 50 months interest free from Domayne.

All it has promoted is for people to keep bringing their spending forward. But, now we are all credited out, the economy will slow, people will lose jobs and be stuck with consumer debt. A vicious circle.

So, if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. Simple.

Right now, Ford (made the most progress so far) but particularly GM & Chrysler are in the middle of a restructure and have been caught out.

**buggerlugs** · 30-11-2008, 06:27 PM

Yep, thats the first thing my parents taught me, if you can't afford it, you don't get it............ Trying to drum that into my kids now, not easy thou....

Wally · 01-12-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr smith

All I can say is that I deal daily with people who are at ground zero with the local car industries. We see the real deal, no media hype, or internet s$%t, just the facts and the facts are we are in trouble. My job will go down with the local car industry, I could say a lot more but this will do for now.

Then you would know the trouble isn't isolated to Holden. I am friends with a Ford dealer principal and things are far from sweet with the Falcon. He has no qualms in letting it be known that any increase in sales (of the FG) has been from a very low base.

I'm just as guilty as anyone in guessing what's going on and what the washout will be, but I don't predicate my opinions on a bloodlust for the demise of a car company. I find myself looking through the various company press releases and financials to find the basis for the statements made by various members here and invariably there is no foundation (I can find) for them.... e.g why Ford is in better shape than Holden and for that matter why Ford are in better shape than GM?