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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 151
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from smh today:
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...129-1qnwg.htmll Quote:
Looks like the feds are well and truly behind local manufacturing. Good to hear!
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03 Fairmont Ghia - pearl blue 07 XR6 BF MK2 - ego |
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#2 | ||
Straight Eight
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 2,049
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I like Senator Kim Carr. He's welcome to have a beer at my place.
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The Falcon is dead. Long live the Mighty Falcon. |
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#3 | ||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,222
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that's nice. now they just need to build cars people want also with added quality control for no added cost.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#4 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,428
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Quality Control
GM pick one.
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2001 Falcon Fairmont AU2 Big turbo coming Lsd |
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#6 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chapel St
Posts: 774
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Quote:
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Current -2011 Nissan 370z Coupe (6M)- -2006 Husqvarna SMRR450-
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#7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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i reckon it`s less about what people want and much more about what they can afford, from my point of view a $20,000 small medium car or less is what majority of the lower paid workers can afford....... if that,
or a good second handy for which there are heaps of, neither helps sales of big cars unfortunately, i won`t mention the cost of living. |
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#8 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,222
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Quote:
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#9 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
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Mr Carr keeps trying to fool people with the way he uses numbers. there was a thread the other week in which he said the US gave the auto industry $264 per person per year. Then they used this to compare it to the money that australia gives to its auto industry each year. But the big difference is, The US never gave it to the auto manufacturers, it bought stakes in the companies.
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There was a chance that the US government could have made money from its investment, unlike the australian model. This guy continually comes up with untruths about the industry from how many people are employed in it, to how much it is funded compared to other countries. One does have to wonder if his comments does the industry any good because quoting another US president " you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cant fool all of the people all of the time". I think Mr Carr fears that if he doesnt support the union leaders, theres a good chance they may ruin his next Australia Day party. |
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#10 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,021
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Quote:
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#11 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 151
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This idea that Fords have serious reliability and quality control issues is a myth.
BMW: http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...101-179ps.html http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/49430...ure-fuel-pump- Toyota: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2...ehicle_recalls http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7A84V120111109 Mercedes Benz: http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/in.../itemId/952860 http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7345SO20110405 http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/17/m...diesel-models/ Porsche: http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...d-ar88987.html http://www.motortrend.com/new_cars/1...tible/recalls/ Mazda: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...da-recall.html http://rotarynews.com/node/view/822 Kia: http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/20/k...airbag-issues/ http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/03/auto...call/index.htm Hyundai: http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/in.../itemId/952887 http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/20/m...issues-affect/ And these are not trivial things; seat belts, wheels nuts, fuel pumps, electricals, brake lights, accelerator pedals jamming, rust, ect, ect, etc. I could go on for hours with these sources, reuters, cnn, wikipedia, motortrend, aust federal govt, and so on. So the facts are there in black and white. To say Euro or Jap or korean stuff has top notch QC and flawless design may have evidence anecdotally, but a 5 minute search from reliable sources proves otherwise. The local fords are built to a price, hence some of the cheaper materials, but to suggest they fall apart left right and centre is unjustified, especially in the context of these "esteemed" brands.
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03 Fairmont Ghia - pearl blue 07 XR6 BF MK2 - ego Last edited by .FoMoCo.; 31-01-2012 at 11:32 AM. |
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#12 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,428
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I can confirm the fuel pump issues.
All my old Cressida's (2x mx62 1983 gli's) and my mums 84' had terrible stock fuel pumps. They always used to slow down or just randomly refuse to work. Had to run them back and forward off a old battery to get them to work. Loud as all hell too. Newer 92 grande doesnt have this problem but still its always in the back of my mind with older cars.
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2001 Falcon Fairmont AU2 Big turbo coming Lsd |
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#13 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,451
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Quote:
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#14 | ||||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 151
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Ok then let me rephrase.
Does Ford have QC and reliability problems? Yes. Do other more expensive brands have QC and reliability problems? Yes. Do Japanese brands that have a reputation for reliability have QC and reliability problems? Yes. The comparison I was drawing was to counter comments made earlier that local fords need to improve reliability to compete. Most of these prejudiced pre-conceived ideas about brands are baseless. Quote:
Quote:
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#15 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 151
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Quote:
Should have said: This idea that Fords have serious reliability and quality control issues beyond the levels of other brands is a myth.
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03 Fairmont Ghia - pearl blue 07 XR6 BF MK2 - ego |
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#16 | ||||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,222
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Quote:
Well after owning two Falcons myself and experiencing the so called quality of our local product I will never venture back (my issues have been documented well on this forum), once bitten twice shy. This is not just limited to myself either, I come from a family that for as long as I remember have only bought Falcons and all but one was a disaster, funnily enough it was a blue XD Falcon that was the best of the lot. I since then moved to a Ford Focus and have had a fairy tale run with it in comparison. My comment was not in regards to Ford in general it was the local made Ford products. I never said that other makes don't have issues, cars a mechanical products with thousands of moving parts, some do wear out. Others (including Ford overseas) strive to improve their quality. My issues are the fact that Ford AU don't look to take quality seriously and with a comment like Quote:
Quality control shouldn't be an extra it should be included. Ford EU have been known for developing a quality product and my experiences with two Focus' (LR and LT) have shown this. If I am to buy another Ford it will be another Euro based one.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#17 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 151
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I, too have owned plenty of Fords. No majors problems with any of them. Even had a series 1 AU that went like a steam train. 2 people in my family have owned Subarus, both with plenty of problems. My friend works for a company that had early Focus models as fleet vehicles. They were abandoned with multiple issues, one of them was chewing out disc brake rotors within 20,000 kms from new.
While I'm not here to dispute anyone's personal experiences with brand X or Y, maybe we can have a look across the board and truly examine this claim that the local fords are pumped out without any care, when compared to other brands.
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03 Fairmont Ghia - pearl blue 07 XR6 BF MK2 - ego |
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#18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,021
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Ford's biggest problem is with their suppliers. Ford themselves don't make diff bushes, ball joints and brake hoses. Some problems are through flawed design, others through inferior products.
Take this case for example, Ford employee buys a brand new BA XR8, costs him nearly a years wages, has owned it for two days when it conks out on the way to work. RACV truck has to tow it to dealer where it is found a dodgy alternator destroyed the loom and took out the computer with it. Car gets fixed within a week and all is good again. Now this person understood it was an outside issue and accepted that it happens, but how many people would refuse to ever buy a Ford again not realizing that Bosch supply to all the major manufacturers???
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#19 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 151
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Yeah, good point. This is what I'm on about with these pre conceived ideas about things.
Brand image is not something that is readily changed.
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03 Fairmont Ghia - pearl blue 07 XR6 BF MK2 - ego |
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#20 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,222
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Quote:
One such is the brakes material used that caused many to receive warped discs.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#21 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 151
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Wouldn't it really grate to find out your 300k Porsche was topping the list of the most unreliable cars in the US?
http:// http://theage.drive.com.au/m...028-1mn7b.html
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#22 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,222
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Quote:
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#23 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 151
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Then again, I wonder how many 911's are used as daily drivers? Not too many i would imagine. They shouldn't be any where near the top ten unreliable list anywhere considering their price tag and reputation for superior design.
On the other hand, there are hundreds of thousands of falcons as taxis nationwide. Why would taxi operators choose such a lemon? By extension, wretched, you are saying FOA's poor design parameters for their suppliers is leading to this perceived unreliability? Using this logic, the superior design behind BMW, Mercedes-Benz, VW, porsche and so on means they have ultra reliability? Right?
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#24 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 151
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And if we can circle back around to the OP, maybe with the right support, FOA can improve their whole operation to become world class.
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#25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Brisbane, Qld
Posts: 3,321
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Quote:
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer |
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#26 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,222
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Quote:
Taxi's are second hand cars, not new. They use the Falcon because of its long history with LPG, it's vast amount of spare parts and the fact they're cheap. Just like in other countries they use their own makes for taxis unless you believe every country uses a Falcon taxi ;) What I said is Ford specify the parameters in which a component is to be made for the car. This of course is dictated by cost. Other times they will use an off the shelf product with minor changes made to accomodate their needs.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#27 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sydney
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Quote:
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#28 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
You can't have it both ways. |
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#29 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#30 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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Quote:
Ford is hoping that EcoLPI will give fleets and taxis the vehicle they have been asking for. |
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