Insurance -- does it have to be a write off?

dinlochavo · 02-06-2010, 04:47 AM

Hi Guys. I'm new here so I hope I've posted this in the right section.
Here's my problem:
I live in NSW and I've got a 98 Fairmont. It is in excellent condition, runs great, no smoke, no oil etc. There is nothing wrong with this car at all. We've looked after it well and it's still in showroom condition.
The other day someone reversed into it and damaged one of the rear doors. They admitted it was their fault which was fine because I only have TPPD on it. The problem is that their insurance company, GIO, wants to write the car off. I've been to a couple of smash repairers and they say it's repairable but when they contact GIO they are given the same answer: write it off.
But I don't want the car written off. It's only a dented door and it's a good car. I know what will happen. They will give me bottom book price for it and then I'll be lumbered with the inconvenience of finding another car which almost certainly won't be in as good a condition as mine. It's our car, we were minding our own business when their client damaged it and now they want to write it off. Can they do this?
What if I just went ahead with the repair and sent them the bill? After all it's my car.
Any other ideas/advice?
IMO writing off a good car for the sake of a damaged door is a crock. I smell a massive rort.

PANELCORP · 02-06-2010, 06:20 AM

Talk to GIO and see if they will cash settle ou without writing the car off - this does happen where and owner wants to keep the vehicle and pay direct for the repairs

Alternatively,

If it is written off - it will only be as a "repairable write off" that you should be able to buy back from GIO as the owner

As the laws don't change until Late August - you probably have enought time to fix it, get it blue slipped and then re-rego'd as a repairable write off

First option is probably the easiest though

LTDHO · 02-06-2010, 08:44 AM

As you are claiming for the other party's insurer, you will able to retain the vehicle whilst still being paid for it (market value less salvae value).

If your car is in show room condition, then before accepting settlement, dispute the MV by looking for similar vehicles currently for sale.

The only down side to it being a write off, is you will need a VIV. If you are successful in increasing the MV and they still write it off, then should have the money to do the VIV.

hawke · 02-06-2010, 08:59 AM

Its your car, and the other party damaged it. It is their responsiblity to fix it. The involvement of their insurer is irrelvent.

You have the right to insist on the damage being made good by the other party.

My advice is to reject the offer by the GIO, and make a statement of claim on the other party.

Yellow_Festiva · 02-06-2010, 09:00 AM

A VIV stays on the cars record as well doesn't it? This may cause issues down the track if or when you decide to sell.

If you do go down the path of repairable write off, get it well documented that it was due to a damaged door, and take pics.

GIO is acting pretty poorly. Before you do anything that you feel is not in your best interest take it up with the Insurance Ombudsman.

brendo83 · 02-06-2010, 11:31 AM

Don't automatically assume that the insurance company will try to rip you off on a write-off price.
If they authorise the repairs then they become responsible for ensuring the car is repaired to your satifaction, and potentially on-going issues related to the damage or repairs. Once they write it off the matter is closed.

If you opt to take the write off and buy the wreck, you might be able to get it fixed, viv'ed and re-registered with a nice chunk of cash in your pocket for your trouble.

dinlochavo · 02-06-2010, 12:36 PM

Thanks for your help people. Some stuff to think about.

I think I'll go with hawke's suggestion, mainly because I don't take too kindly to being pushed around by big business or anyone else.

Any other ideas?

LTDHO · 02-06-2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawke

Its your car, and the other party damaged it. It is their responsiblity to fix it. The involvement of their insurer is irrelvent.

You have the right to insist on the damage being made good by the other party.

My advice is to reject the offer by the GIO, and make a statement of claim on the other party.

I don't think you could be ant further from the truth.

**Sorted** · 02-06-2010, 01:57 PM

It's a write off doesnt give you much information!

Has this car been assessed by GIO? - if yes have you got the copy of the assessment report? I would be asking for a copy of this before you can consider any offer from GIO

Did you go to one of GIO's "Aprroved" repairers to obtain a quote? if yes how much was the quote? I would also be asking for a copy of this.

Eleanor · 02-06-2010, 05:45 PM

You could try ringing the Financial Ombudsman Service for advice on where you stand. I had issues with Suncorp recently and these guys knew the laws and policy better than the 'machines' (some were helpful, others not) I was dealing with over the phone.

Normally The Financial Ombudsman Service should only be contacted after an attempt has been made to resolve any complaints directly with the insurance company but they were helpful enough to give me some up front advice to start with so I could communicate more knowledgeably with Suncorp.

http://fos.org.au/centric/home_page.jsp

LTDHO · 02-06-2010, 06:21 PM

Sorted, they do not have to provide a copy of the report, nor would it be useful to request.

Oh, It's Insurance Ombudsman.
They can offer help but can not assist until you have escalated it with the insurer first.

Eleanor · 02-06-2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Oh, It's Insurance Ombudsman.

Actually it's not anymore.

LTDHO I know it's nit-picking but it used to be the Insurance Ombudsman but several agencies now work under the one umbrella.

Quote:

An Australian scheme named the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) began on 1 July 2008 following a merger between the Insurance Ombudsman Service (IOS), the Financial Industry Complaints Service (FICS) and the Banking and Financial Ombudsman Service (BFOS). There was a transition period of 18 months during which IOS, FICS and BFOS continued to operate until 1 January 2010. New complaints are best lodged with the new FOS.

hawke · 02-06-2010, 07:23 PM

You may find that the Insurance Ombudsman services are limited to Insureds that have a dispute with an insurer. As you are a third party, you may not be able to take part of their external dispute resolution service.

Fiesta God · 02-06-2010, 08:51 PM

They will cash settle you if you ask for it (for the 'reasonable' cost of repairs).

Alternatively you can have them write the car off and pay you out something, and keep the car and repair it that way (less attractive, reduced future value).

buickman · 02-06-2010, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendo83

If they authorise the repairs then they become responsible for ensuring the car is repaired to your satifaction, and potentially on-going issues related to the damage or repairs. Once they write it off the matter is closed.

That’s why they want to write it off as it could become a problem if the owner is not satisfied with the repairs done as it is an older car and time and money would offset the repaired costs if it keeps going back for the repairs to be rectified

au adam · 02-06-2010, 10:02 PM

Its not your insurance company and its your car so tell them to **** off.

LTDHO · 02-06-2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au adam

Its not your insurance company and its your car so tell them to **** off.

Yeah real good idea [/sarcasm]

**Sorted** · 02-06-2010, 10:39 PM

LTDHO we request assessors reports all the time, can't see you reason as how it can not be useful? If the assessors report is the reason why the car is a write off then the client is entitled to see that.

Its not the insurer's car, its the client's car - many people who work in insurance don't seem to know the difference.

Also many insurers are in the habit of not giving a copy of the repair invoice to the insured so they actually know whats been repaired on the car - this again is an act of an insurer not knowing who's car it is.

We have had many cars that have been deemed write offs by insurers over these Hail Claims and even though the assessor has deemed them a write off we have had the cars repaired and back on the road as requested by our clients.

We find that the quote as supplied by the preferred repairer is too high which pushes the vehicle into the write off category.

Client obtains a cheaper quote for repairs and therefore balance sways back that the car is more ecominical to repair than write off

Win for the insurance company and win for the client.

We work on behalf of the client and not that of the or agent of the insurer like you do so we have a different way of thinking..............................

RG · 02-06-2010, 10:46 PM

I love all the expert opinions.

I would of thought it quite hard to give anywhere near an accurate opinion at all considering that the only info given is that there is damage to a door. Not even a photo, for all any of the so called "experts" here giving away free advice know the damage could be quite substantial.

Zedjay · 02-06-2010, 10:52 PM

i had a simalar thing happen to me..
i got rear ended and the other person's insurance said it was a total loss.

they payed me out $4'900 and i kept driving it around for a while then got it fixed for under $1000, never had to get a VIV check or anything

Yaw · 02-06-2010, 11:05 PM

Mate,
Insurance companies will do what is the most econimaclly viable for them. If they are writing it off for a minor accident it would not have a great value anyway. (no disrespect intended) Basically it is market value of the vehcile - salvage
Now if that equation works out more economical that repairing the vehicle, this is why they would write it off. Yeah sure you may be able to get a cheaper repair but if you do, it most likley won't be a complete repair like the insurance repair would have been. The way everyone is carrying on is that the insurer is trying to rip you off.
Turn the tables around and put yourself in the other shoes. You would take the cheapest option yourself which is exactly why what they are doing is fair and reasonable in the eyes of the law.

Yaw · 02-06-2010, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorted

LTDHO we request assessors reports all the time, can't see you reason as how it can not be useful? If the assessors report is the reason why the car is a write off then the client is entitled to see that.

Its not the insurer's car, its the client's car - many people who work in insurance don't seem to know the difference.

Also many insurers are in the habit of not giving a copy of the repair invoice to the insured so they actually know whats been repaired on the car - this again is an act of an insurer not knowing who's car it is.

We have had many cars that have been deemed write offs by insurers over these Hail Claims and even though the assessor has deemed them a write off we have had the cars repaired and back on the road as requested by our clients.

We find that the quote as supplied by the preferred repairer is too high which pushes the vehicle into the write off category.

Client obtains a cheaper quote for repairs and therefore balance sways back that the car is more ecominical to repair than write off

Win for the insurance company and win for the client.

We work on behalf of the client and not that of the or agent of the insurer like you do so we have a different way of thinking..............................

The assessors report is pretty much useless unless you know what your looking for and even then it can be difficult to know how to interpret the information there as usually the person or third party such as yourself who works on behalf of others as you have said, have not actually seen the vehicle in the first place.

Let me give you an example of what I am talking about.
I had a person open thier door onto my door in a car park causing a small dent. The recovery on this claim is $275.00 excluding gst. (this give you the idea we are talking about a very minor accident. I work in motor claims recoveries and settlements. I am insured with the company I work for. (No I am not looking after my own recovery) However when I took my car 2007 TX Territory in for assesment. I was very particular in asking the assessor to do a walk around of my car and note any other marks or blemishes. I have a tiny paint chip on the front right wheel arch, a few light scratches where I have driven past a tree and general wear and tear, (no other dents or rust)
On the assesors report he had noted all these things down.
Now without having seen the car you would swear it was in bad disrepair. Nothing could be further from the truth. The only reason I asked the assesor to mark all this down was if it had of come back from the repairer with anything that was not there previously I had the assessor to back me up.

That is a simple example of how an assessors report is useless to somone who has obviously not seen the vehcile in the first place.

LTDHO · 03-06-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorted

We ....
We ...
We ...

Who's we?

**Sorted** · 03-06-2010, 09:03 AM

Assessors report would state Pre Accident Value
Also would state salvage value
Also would state Repair Costs

If the pre accident value is low it would be stated on the assessors report, eg tyres are bald, dent here, scratch there, etc etc

Also watch out for rogue insurers like Racv, Gio, Aami and the like that if they write your vehicle off they keep the balance of the registration that maybe you just paid? - not 100 % sure if the all do that be I will assume.

Alot of smash repairers are flexible in price and quote higher if an insurer is involved as they know the assessor will reduce the quote. This is the reason they ask of it's a cash job or through an insurer.

So how much is this quote for this minor damage?

RG · 03-06-2010, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorted

Assessors report would state Pre Accident Value
Also would state salvage value
Also would state Repair Costs

If the pre accident value is low it would be stated on the assessors report, eg tyres are bald, dent here, scratch there, etc etc

Also watch out for rogue insurers like Racv, Gio, Aami and the like that if they write your vehicle off they keep the balance of the registration that maybe you just paid? - not 100 % sure if the all do that be I will assume.

Alot of smash repairers are flexible in price and quote higher if an insurer is involved as they know the assessor will reduce the quote. This is the reason they ask of it's a cash job or through an insurer.

So how much is this quote for this minor damage?

Seriously mate, you can't call three of the largest insurers in this country "rouges". It just doesn't work and really is a bit of a silly statement to make.

Also how do you know that it is minor damage? For all you know the door may have been stoved in and bent the pillars.

LTDHO · 03-06-2010, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorted

Assessors report would state Pre Accident Value
Also would state salvage value
Also would state Repair Costs

If the pre accident value is low it would be stated on the assessors report, eg tyres are bald, dent here, scratch there, etc etc

Also watch out for rogue insurers like Racv, Gio, Aami and the like that if they write your vehicle off they keep the balance of the registration that maybe you just paid? - not 100 % sure if the all do that be I will assume.

Alot of smash repairers are flexible in price and quote higher if an insurer is involved as they know the assessor will reduce the quote. This is the reason they ask of it's a cash job or through an insurer.

So how much is this quote for this minor damage?

I'm aware as to what information an assessment report provides, however you haven't stated the advantage of obtaining the report.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

Seriously mate, you can't call three of the largest insurers in this country "rouges". It just doesn't work and really is a bit of a silly statement to make

I agree.

dinlochavo · 03-06-2010, 10:44 AM

Hey guys, its a damaged door but its not bent pillars or anything like that. If I'd damaged it myself I would take the door trim off and kick the dent out. That would pretty much fix it. But I didn't do it someone else did. So surely I'm entitled to have the car put back the way it was before their client damaged it.

There are two main reasons why I don't want to write it off:
Firstly, as I said in the opening post, it's a good car even if it's old. It's been well looked after and I know its service history and what's been done to it. Buying a secondhand car, on the other hand, is a lottery -- you don't know what you are getting until you've had it a few weeks (can't afford a new car just now -- just bought a new house).
Secondly, there is the inconvenience. I am a nightshift worker and the last thing I want to be doing is running around trying to find another car when I should be in bed. It's bad enough running around getting quotes and going to insurance assessors. I've got better things to do with my life. If I charged them my hourly rate for the inconvenience that their client has put me to I'd already be sending them a bill for several hundred dollars. Whoooaaa...I'm going off into a rant. Better stop now.

**Sorted** · 03-06-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

Seriously mate, you can't call three of the largest insurers in this country "rouges". It just doesn't work and really is a bit of a silly statement to make..

You have your view on them and i have my view.........and many repairers have the same view as myself - no choice of repairer pffft

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

Also how do you know that it is minor damage? For all you know the door may have been stoved in and bent the pillars.

Guess that would be on the Assessors report? and there would be one of these around if GIO are writing off the vehicle.......

AAMI have a "repair center" you take your car to their "repair center" they get 5 or so of their authorised repairers to go to this "repair center" and quote on the car - then AAMI select the cheapest out of thier 5 to repair the car - the insured's car that has the damage does not get to see the quote so they dont know how much the repair costs are

If GIO have done similar for dinlochavo he would have no idea what they have quoted for repairs therefore if he has a copy of the assessors report this would not only have the repair costs and other information on there which is the reason why GIO want to write the car off.

Anyway going around in circles as we have no dollar value

Cost of Repairs =
Write off Value Offered by GIO =
Will GIO keep the balance of the Reg?

You can really see the attitude of those that work for an insurer here lol

RG · 03-06-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorted

You have your view on them and i have my view.........and many repairers have the same view as myself - no choice of repairer pffft

Guess that would be on the Assessors report? and there would be one of these around if GIO are writing off the vehicle.......

AAMI have a "repair center" you take your car to their "repair center" they get 5 or so of their authorised repairers to go to this "repair center" and quote on the car - then AAMI select the cheapest out of thier 5 to repair the car - the insured's car that has the damage does not get to see the quote so they dont know how much the repair costs are

If GIO have done similar for dinlochavo he would have no idea what they have quoted for repairs therefore if he has a copy of the assessors report this would not only have the repair costs and other information on there which is the reason why GIO want to write the car off.

Anyway going around in circles as we have no dollar value

Cost of Repairs =
Write off Value Offered by GIO =
Will GIO keep the balance of the Reg?

You can really see the attitude of those that work for an insurer here lol

Except for the fact that they do give you a choice of repairer from their preferred repairer network. Something that generally has nearly all major smash repairers in most areas in it anyway. Also from experience AAMI & GIO will let you exclude any repairer from their process if you have an issue with said repairers quality of works.

You are posting misleading info Sorted, and before you ask I have nothing whatsoever to do with any insurers.

**Sorted** · 03-06-2010, 02:15 PM

My Choice of Repairer is different to what you call Choice of Repair

Choice of Repairer is in fact that - you have Choice of "ANY" Repairer you want to use

Not Choice of Repairer with conditions as long as its in our Authorised Repair Network - that is misleading