Wheels falling off muscle car dream

[DJR-351]

Interesting article in yesterdays West Australian....

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/mot...cle-car-dream/

Wheels falling off muscle car dream

Stephen Williams, The West Australian
August 16, 2010, 6:15 am

A 1971 Ford Falcon XY GT-HO Phase III. The car cost $5302 in 1971; $600,000 in 2007; and $320,000 in 2010.

As the Australian economy steamrolled ahead in the pre-GFC days of 2007, three bidders pushed a high-performance Ford Falcon GT-HO Phase III that had cost $5300 in 1971 to a hammer price of $683,000. In 2007, the most expensive new Ferrari, a 612 Scaglietti, cost less than the Phase III.

Many of the muscle car buyers, often blue-collar types made good, thought they had discovered the ideal investment - Monaros, Chargers and GT-HOs they had dreamt about in their youth but could not afford at the time.

"The cars that interest us later in life are the cars we had on our bedroom walls as kids yet were beyond our reach at driving age," auction house Sotheby's car specialist James Nicholls said.

"The models that appealed to these people the most, and therefore reached the highest prices, were those that had a competition history linked to Bathurst and famous racing drivers."

Since 2007, the muscle car market has crashed.

"The muscle car buying dried up after the GFC, when people didn't have as much cash to splash about on what are essentially luxuries - a muscle car is great to take to a competition, a rally or for a fun drive but no one actually needs one," Mr Nicholls said.

Today, the for sale columns in motoring magazines are bare as the owners who bought near the peak of the boom refuse to realise their paper losses, which in some cases are hundreds of thousands of dollars.

This lack of stock caused Aussie Muscle Cars in Osborne Park to change its name to Auto House and start selling European cars.

Proprietor Anthony Brown said the few "heavyweight" muscle cars that had been offered for sale recently tended to have inflated reserve prices.

"Typically, a bloke's paid a fortune for the car and the wife tells him to get rid of it but he puts a stupid reserve on it and finishes up having to hang on to it," Mr Brown said.

His last muscle car sale was a 1968 Ford Falcon GT, which was worth about $80,000 during the boom.

"A bloke wanted to sell because he was building a house and I told him $60,000 was a realistic price to meet the market," Mr Brown said.

However, it took two months of marketing and a drop to $45,000 to shift the car.

Mr Brown says muscle car owners are in for a long wait for prices to recover, if they do at all.

"The muscle car game took flight between 2002 and 2007 - it was a herd mentality with people buying cars for the wrong reasons and prices went up like a rocket," he said.

"But since then the market has slowed down to a walk, stagnated and gone backwards.

"People have to take into account Australian muscle cars are not a global commodity, like a classic Ferrari or Bentley, which have a similar value anywhere in the world."

Classic-car fan and journalist Alex Forrest said people looking for a muscle car for enjoyment rather than investment could consider cheaper models, which were starting to become more available.

"Look, here's an HQ SS Holden V8 with stripes and a black interior that looks and sounds sensational yet would probably go for about $25,000," Forrest said, perusing an auction website.

[mrniceguy]

Was reading that today. Where can I get a smick HQ GTS Monaro for 25 grand??

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by mrniceguy

Was reading that today. Where can I get a smick HQ GTS Monaro for 25 grand??

The article refers to the SS, basically a Belmont sedan with 253 four speed, GTS dash and GTS type stripes. They didn't even have arm rests.

[mrniceguy]

Originally Posted by JG66ME

The article refers to the SS, basically a Belmont sedan with 253 four speed, GTS dash and GTS type stripes. They didn't even have arm rests.

Ah yep but the article had a picture of a HQ 2 door with it's value in 2010 as $25000. Guess they got em mixed up.

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by mrniceguy

Ah yep but the article had a picture of a HQ 2 door with it's value in 2010 as $25000. Guess they got em mixed up.

I didn't see the pic. If the do mean Monaro they are dreaming.

[jaydee]

I know we here in the West are a long way from the eastern sea board but I didn't think we were so far behind the times to only just pick up on the fact the bubble burst some time ago.
And would you be able to pick up a good Cobra for 60k? I thought they were still getting more than that.
I know I would be kicking myself if I paid nearly 700 thou for a HO and today they're worth only about half that. Listen to me ha, I said only, thats half of what my house is worth.
I suppose as long as you looked at it as an investment like property or shares eventually it will go up but me thinks the heady days of those prices are a looooong way away.

[RedHotGT]

The bubble may have burst... but the muscle car trade is still as healthy as ever....

Yeah ok - the GTHOP3's are 'only' getting $300,000 now... i'd hardly call that pocket change... they're still in the elite end of the muscle car market...

And while the severely over inflated PH3 prices have come down... its meant that other classics are being sold left right and centre...

You only have to buy a copy of Just Cars to see what is moving these days... and what people want...

*XA-XB-XC coupes... you can't even buy a rusty 6cyl auto car for under $15,000...

*1967 - 1977 Falcons with V8s... starting at $10,000 for anything decent... and going up depending on options, specs, colours, etc...

*Toranas... again... $15k won't even get you a run down V8 SS hatch, or a 2door LC/LJ...

*Brockies... be it VC/VH/VK they're still fetching plenty... and hard to find too...

The market is very healthy... I could tell you all stories about cars i've personally seen sold in the past 6 months... and you wouldn't believe me...

Its just changed buyers perspectives... and if anything, has made the middle of the market cars much more valuable... and desirable also...

I've got a very strong feeling about the muscle car movement and where its going...

Lets see what happens with the election, and i'll be here to tell you 'I told you so'

[anto]

Im afraid the "movement" whatever that is, isnt going anywhere but down in dollar value. Prices were and are still artificially high so its no surprise really.

For true muscle car enhusiasts it wont matter anyhow, we buy to own...pricing is irrelevant. Investments they are not, nor should they be.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by loftie

The bubble may have burst... but the muscle car trade is still as healthy as ever....

Yeah ok - the GTHOP3's are 'only' getting $300,000 now... i'd hardly call that pocket change... they're still in the elite end of the muscle car market...

And while the severely over inflated PH3 prices have come down... its meant that other classics are being sold left right and centre...

You only have to buy a copy of Just Cars to see what is moving these days... and what people want...

*XA-XB-XC coupes... you can't even buy a rusty 6cyl auto car for under $15,000...

*1967 - 1977 Falcons with V8s... starting at $10,000 for anything decent... and going up depending on options, specs, colours, etc...

*Toranas... again... $15k won't even get you a run down V8 SS hatch, or a 2door LC/LJ...

*Brockies... be it VC/VH/VK they're still fetching plenty... and hard to find too...

The market is very healthy... I could tell you all stories about cars i've personally seen sold in the past 6 months... and you wouldn't believe me...

Its just changed buyers perspectives... and if anything, has made the middle of the market cars much more valuable... and desirable also...

I've got a very strong feeling about the muscle car movement and where its going...

Lets see what happens with the election, and i'll be here to tell you 'I told you so'

I've been keeping an eye on these for a while now as I'm looking to buy one at some point. They've come right down across the board. There are still some dreamers sure, but decent buys can be had:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....=STRK:MEWAX:IT

While I wouldn't be buying as an investment, I'm obviously looking to buy as cheaply as possible. From what I've seen on the market over the last year or so, I'm thinking I'll be better off waiting another year or so before buying.(also because I have no where to keep a car atm)

And what about the election? Sorry if I've missed something but dont see how the election and muscle car prices are related.

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

I've been keeping an eye on these for a while now as I'm looking to buy one at some point. They've come right down across the board. There are still some dreamers sure, but decent buys can be had:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....=STRK:MEWAX:IT

While I wouldn't be buying as an investment, I'm obviously looking to buy as cheaply as possible. From what I've seen on the market over the last year or so, I'm thinking I'll be better off waiting another year or so before buying.(also because I have no where to keep a car atm)

And what about the election? Sorry if I've missed something but dont see how the election and muscle car prices are related.

If the liberals get in... watch the mining sector increase again...
When Miners have cash... they spend... houses... and cars...
(ie building sector increase, muscle car market increase)...

I can tell you that i've seen more cars go WEST to WA in the last 2 years than any other state in Australia... Ask anyone that works at a transport depot... they'll tell you all about amazing things they've seen heading over to WA...

When the miners are paying for cars... the market goes up...

[Road_Warrior]

Had to happen sooner or later.

[ELGT4me]

The "big dollar" Phase 3's were actual Bathurst cars. If you could get hold of a genuine Bathurst Monaro/ Torana/ Commodore, I think you would find them commanding big dollars as well. An ordinary (non Bathurst) HO, would want to be "concourse" to sell upwards of $400k, under any circumstances!!!

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by ELGT4me

The "big dollar" Phase 3's were actual Bathurst cars. If you could get hold of a genuine Bathurst Monaro/ Torana/ Commodore, I think you would find them commanding big dollars as well. An ordinary (non Bathurst) HO, would want to be "concourse" to sell upwards of $400k, under any circumstances!!!

Nail hit on head.

[aussie muscle]

the 'crash' has scared away those looking at muscle cars as an investment. true enthusiasts are still paying top dollar. :cringe:

[Eleanor]

Originally Posted by loftie

*XA-XB-XC coupes... you can't even buy a rusty 6cyl auto car for under $15,000...

I hope this remains the case when I list mine in the next couple of weeks. I've seen a lot of roughies selling for well under $10K though.

[TheZHLANE]

stupid journalists

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by loftie

When the miners are paying for cars... the market goes up...

+ the crazy drug dealers making crazy offers to crazy miners..........

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by loftie

If the liberals get in... watch the mining sector increase again...
When Miners have cash... they spend... houses... and cars...
(ie building sector increase, muscle car market increase)...

I can tell you that i've seen more cars go WEST to WA in the last 2 years than any other state in Australia... Ask anyone that works at a transport depot... they'll tell you all about amazing things they've seen heading over to WA...

When the miners are paying for cars... the market goes up...

Ahh yes gotta love the cashed up bogans over in WA. Their spending driving the market all makes sense, except I doubt the election result will have any effect in the long term - the miners will be here until the minerals run out regardless of any new tax.

[cedric]

of course they are going down. the price was drivin by people wanting to make money, not by people wanting to OWN one. as soon as they cant make money they crash rapidly. exactly like the property market, people bought houses purely for short term capital growth and as soon as that ended, a big crash. there are exceptions of corse and every person on these forrums are one of them,ie real enthusiests, but the ridiculus prices were driven by investors.something i find funny is the xa-c coupes,they still fetch 10g for a basket case that needs 50g at least spent on them but aren't worth 40g in good condition.

[ELGT4me]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

+ the crazy drug dealers making crazy offers to crazy miners..........

Retired "baby boomers" had alot to do with the price rise!! ie "I could not afford a HO while the kids grew up" Now the kids are gone, my house increased in value, my "super" payout is here, let's buy a HO. Come GFC, oops!!!

[ELGT4me]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Ahh yes gotta love the cashed up bogans over in WA. Their spending driving the market all makes sense, except I doubt the election result will have any effect in the long term - the miners will be here until the minerals run out regardless of any new tax.

Err cashed up maybe, Bogans? not necessarily. Have you seen the "GT" anything antics on E Prey? Most of the sellers are on the East Coast, they will tack on the "GT " letters in the hope of selling anything.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by mrniceguy

Was reading that today. Where can I get a smick HQ GTS Monaro for 25 grand??

I believe this is the SS he was refering to, his estimation was $3000 less than it went for, not a bad guestimate....

http://www.shannons.com.au/auctions/...D914JU6BFX61B7

[BPXR6T]

Couldn't be happier to see the bottom drop out. We might actually see the cars back on the road in the hands of enthusiasts instead of locked up in an investors warehouse.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by ELGT4me

Retired "baby boomers" had alot to do with the price rise!! ie "I could not afford a HO while the kids grew up" Now the kids are gone, my house increased in value, my "super" payout is here, let's buy a HO. Come GFC, oops!!!

right about the boomers.. i was having a lol about the crazy cashed up drug dealer at the nationals..... rack off noddy ya not gettin ya mitts on Potty Beige....

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

Couldn't be happier to see the bottom drop out. We might actually see the cars back on the road in the hands of enthusiasts instead of locked up in an investors warehouse.

Pretty much what I think. Dont like seeing people lose heaps of cash but no sympathy for those who brought with no real intent to enjoy.

[jaydee]

My brother has a Shelby Mustang (1970) and a Mach1 (1971) that are both practically concourse and not asking exhorbatant money.
Hasn't had any interest in the Mach1 and a little interst in the Shelby.
So I'd say the market is definitely slow at the moment and people are just watching and waiting for a while.
We're in WA so I don't know where all these so called cashed up bogans are. At just over 50K I'd rather have the Mach1 than some HSV ute.

[Polyal]

Damn it would want to be a mint mach1! Im sure it is but I was under the impression $20k-30k will get you a good one. They are ridiculously cheap in the US, like US$15k.

Got pics?

[ELGT4me]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

right about the boomers.. i was having a lol about the crazy cashed up drug dealer at the nationals..... rack off noddy ya not gettin ya mitts on Potty Beige....

Funny you should mention that, I was approached @ the GT Nats in Ballarat by some rather large lads of Middle Eastern appearance, they offered me $60k for my EL GT. When I suggested that no EL GT was worth $60k, & besides that, not one of these 4 gentleman would fit into my car, they departed to the XW-Y section of GT,s. I was also approached @ the 2005 FPV/Tickford Open day, by 3 large Maori gentlemen, who suggested I name the price for my car, because they wanted to buy it. When I suggested they could not afford my car, they replied they "were in the mining game" they can afford anything. Seems I work for the wrong mining company!!!

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by ELGT4me

Seems I work for the wrong mining company!!!

I started in the mining game in WA in 1980, then 10 years ago moved into the offshore oil and gas industry, my younger brother has been 20 years in Newman WA (where i started) and neither of us know of to many people with a top end muscle car, and those that I do bought them 15 to 20 years ago.

There are a few that have bought basket cases in the last 5 to 10 years and have spent a motza on restoring them, but i don't think there are to many Haulpak drivers going out and spending up to half a mill or more on a car....which is the type of car the article is talking about....

All this hype implying that miners somehow have an effect on the price of muscle cars is rubbish, seriously some people must believe we go around lighting Havana cigars with $100 bills....

You hit the nail on the head here....

Originally Posted by ELGT4me
Retired "baby boomers" had alot to do with the price rise!! ie "I could not afford a HO while the kids grew up" Now the kids are gone, my house increased in value, my "super" payout is here, let's buy a HO. Come GFC, oops!!!

[mr smith]

The days of easy cash are over and this is where the buying power came from, people using their home as an ATM.
Prices for anything but the rarest and most important vehicles will continue to fall.