Fuel consumption of hybrids....

[dave289]

Was curious as to the consumption figures of hybrids cars. We now have a few doing the rounds ,honda, toyota/lexus .First I think we had the honda insight followed by the toyota prius, there are a few lexus hybrids getting around and of course the new hybrid camry. Any owners out there driving such cars and what is your fuel consumption like as well as the driving experience and realiability. I am very interseted in the camry figures ,as it is one of the larger cars getting around in hybrid form. Are these cars selling or not? Its not that I am thinking of buying one but this is what many of us may drive in the future. It seems you pay a premium price over the standard petrol and it seems you need to own these cars for quite a few years to break even on the costs of the equivelent petrol model. Thanks for any feedback reguarding this.

[Mr Hardware]

A good mate of mine owns a prius
does pure city driving and gets 'four point something' litres per 100
He'd never break even with the few kays he does.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

A good mate of mine owns a prius
does pure city driving and gets 'four point something' litres per 100
He'd never break even with the few kays he does.

Yet local taxi drivers in my city claim they are recouping the price
difference in 12 months due to fuel savings over their LPG Falcons...

Fleets are the best users of hybrid technology, LPG and diesel allowing development
and manufacturing costs to be amortized further reducing the prices for private buyers.

[ohzone]

Taxi Drivers probably would be amongst those more likely to benefit from a Hybrid as they are traveling large amounts of Kilometers are year, but I think they wil be inclined to move the cars on before the Batteries end their servicable life as the cost of replacement Batteries will negate a lot of the savings.
The average driver would be lucky to recoup the premium they pay for these cars before the sell them years down the track.

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yet local taxi drivers in my city claim they are recouping the price
difference in 12 months due to fuel savings over their LPG Falcons...

Fleets are the best users of hybrid technology, LPG and diesel allowing development
and manufacturing costs to be amortized further reducing the prices for private buyers.

[Bmobile]

Drove a Prius renta car around VIC for a week and toured all over that state for just 5.5L per 100k's.

[flappist]

Hybrids, scam of the century......

If you save 6l/100km and petrol is $2/l that means you will save $12,000 per 100,000km.
At $1.50 /l it is only $9,000 per 100,000km

Camry Hybrid $48,000
Camry Petrol $35,000

So:

By the time you even get close to breaking even on fuel costs your car is 4 or 5 (at least) years old and your batteries are stuffed (and aren't they cheap). Resale is irrelevant as your are in the "Honest John's Discount Cars" territory.

Hybrids are an emotional purchase just like V8s. There is no logical reason why you would buy one, you just WANT one because they make you feel good.

[naddis01]

You are comparing the Camry hybrid, which is mid range, to I assume a base petrol. When comparing models with similar spec/trim, there is only around $2000 difference.

Also don't Toyota warrant the batteries for 8 years?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by naddis01

You are comparing the Camry hybrid, which is mid range, to I assume a base petrol. When comparing models with similar spec/trim, there is only around $2000 difference.

Also don't Toyota warrant the batteries for 8 years?

I just got the prices for the same model off carsales.com.au

[irish2]

Originally Posted by B mobile

Drove a Prius renta car around VIC for a week and toured all over that state for just 5.5L per 100k's.

Missus '08 corrolla does 6.0-6.2l/100 k's. This is checked off each fill in liters and the trip computer readout. Seems almost pointless getting a hybrid.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by naddis01

You are comparing the Camry hybrid, which is mid range, to I assume a base petrol. When comparing models with similar spec/trim, there is only around $2000 difference.

Also don't Toyota warrant the batteries for 8 years?

I recall hearing that Toyota in the past ten years have replaced two sets of hybrid batteries.
Also, the resale of Hybrid cars with 3-4 years on them will be much higher than their petrol counterparts.

Of course all of this becomes mute if oil prices spike because deep sea drilling gets banned,
it's easy to imagine paying $2.50 - $3.00 a litre by 2015, she's a different world when petrol is dear...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I recall hearing that Toyota in the past ten years have replaced two sets of hybrid batteries.
Also, the resale of Hybrid cars with 3-4 years on them will be much higher than their petrol counterparts.

I've seen a few in car yards and they're quite cheap. Redbook seems to suggest that they wont do any better then a XT Falcon in terms of resale.

[mik]

ford fiesta fuel economy rating of 3.7 l/100km

[Auslandau]

Figures haven't been good for the Camry Hybrid .... take into account how expensive it is in development but who knows .... time will tell and may all depend on the price of petrol down the track.

VFACTS figures show that Toyota racked up 742 Camry Hybrid sales during its first month on the market (February), which includes fleet and government sales and the company’s own registrations.

That is about the figure the company needs to achieve its goal of 10,000 sales a year of the Camry Hybrid – 40 per cent of which Toyota said should be from private customers – but since then sales dropped off to 548 in March and, worryingly for the company, 396 in April.

Of these, the percentage of private sales is difficult to ascertain. But consider that total private hybrid passenger car sales across all models and brands on the market – including the Honda Civic Hybrid, Lexus’ LS and GS hybrid models, and Toyota’s own Prius – were just 66 in February, 161 in March (marking a Camry spike) and then down to 112 in April.

With figures like these, there is simply no escaping the lack of private customer interest in hybrid cars.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25772500833920



| [/url] |

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I recall hearing that Toyota in the past ten years have replaced two sets of hybrid batteries.
Also, the resale of Hybrid cars with 3-4 years on them will be much higher than their petrol counterparts.

Also the Camry hybrid is meant to be a better drive than the petrol variant due to a different suspension tune. If you were a Camry buyer, I don't see why you wouldn't consider the hybrid.

I can't see Toyota selling 10000 Camry hybrids here anytime soon. That would be around half of the total Camry's sold. Unless they are including exports? They are running closer to 1/3 - 1/4.

Hybrids do have their place, even if they are just a stop gap measure. Obviously they don't suit everyone as can be seen by the comments in this thread. Myself, I would buy a diesel car, which I have recently done, because that suits my situation better. Our car gets into the 3's for consumption when cruising at 50km/hr in town, yet still has decent acceleration (family car wise) when needed.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Also the Camry hybrid is meant to be a better drive than the petrol variant due to a different suspension tune. If you were a Camry buyer, I don't see why you wouldn't consider the hybrid.

If Flappists figures are correct the the 13k difference in price might be a reason. Also I doubt Camry drivers are buying them due to suspension tunes. Also you could always put 2-3k in to making it handle much much better then any camry would from factory.

[naddis01]

His figures are not correct. The nearest model (spec wise) is no where near $13k cheaper.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by naddis01

His figures are not correct. The nearest model (spec wise) is no where near $13k cheaper.

Just had a look and I could see its about a 4-5k difference (unless you go the hybrid luxury and grande model as they are the exact same price but they aren't equal).

[Mr Hardware]

Yes the price differences flappist quotes are not even remotely correct. The price difference is only about 3k or so (in comparing nearest spec to spec) which makes a hybrid camry an excellent ownership proposition when it comes to TCO.

[jpd80]

All of this has to do with motorists and how regularly they have to fuel up,
if a car is reasonably efficient and the driver isn't having to fuel up every
other day then fuel economy isn't a major drama.

So it's a case of how much fuel economy is really needed.
I for one believe the while diesel, hybrid and LPG are out there,
most owners pick reasonably fuel efficient vehicles to suit their needs.

That's why when it comes to total vehicle sales including cars, SUVs and all trucks
diesels are 25%, LPG/Hybrid are about 1% a piece and the rest is petrol..

It's all horses for courses...

[burnz]

hybrid's have their place, they would be great for city use as long as its not too hilly.
citys with hilly terrain would suit diesels better as would gas.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Just had a look and I could see its about a 4-5k difference (unless you go the hybrid luxury and grande model as they are the exact same price but they aren't equal).

This is from Toyota Australia as the spec levels are not the same I beleive...

the Camry Hybrid was good value, representing a $2000 premium over the comparable Ateva when the value of its extra equipment, claimed to be $2500, was taken into account.

So the actual price difference is somewhere between $2000 to $4500. Slightly different from $13000.

[GK]

The Camry is said to have a bigger boot than the Falcon, the hybrid boot is a long way smaller, due to batteries being stored there.

So not good for a family's gear, despite petrol savings on a trip.

I guess you could put a tow bar on there and tow a trailer LOL! I guess that would put a ding in the fuel consumption though huh?

GK

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Yes the price differences flappist quotes are not even remotely correct. The price difference is only about 3k or so (in comparing nearest spec to spec) which makes a hybrid camry an excellent ownership proposition when it comes to TCO.

Yes it is interesting comparing different prices.

ACCC does not allow car manufacturer web sites to list prices anymore you have to go to "retail sites" like carsales.com.au etc and look at actual cars for sale at actual drive away prices.

On the "new car" prices (taken from the marketing blurb) it shows $3k but if you look through the ACTUAL cars for sale it starts at about $7k and goes up from there.

So as the ACTUAL price of petrol is around $1.20/l and the quoted difference between the hybrid and the petrol (6 vs 8.8) is only 2.8l/100km lets do the maths again.

2.8l/100km @ $1.2/l = $3.36/100km or $3,360 per 100,000km which is about what the hybrid fanbois seem to want to tell you is the break even point but so far all I can find are cars priced with a much higher difference which makes the break even far higher.

Several immediately jumped on my price differences as far too high but they strangely ignored my fuel economy figures which were also far too high and petrol prices which were also far too high.

It is always amusing to read the various threads about saving "huge" amounts of money by using LPG or ethanol or hybrid etc. technology that will only take a few years to pay off the several thousand dollars invested and then 10 minutes later read another thread, sometimes featuring the same posters, on the incredibly good deals they got on 20" bling rims for $lots or a $1300 bulge bonnet for their 6 cylinder or a $squillions doof doof installation or body kit or whatever else.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes it is interesting comparing different prices.

ACCC does not allow car manufacturer web sites to list prices anymore you have to go to "retail sites" like carsales.com.au etc and look at actual cars for sale at actual drive away prices.

Actually the sites do now. The Toyota website asks for your postcode and then gives you a drive away price.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Actually the sites do now. The Toyota website asks for your postcode and then gives you a drive away price.

So it does.

Their drive aways are between 3.5k and 6k different.

I hope the Ford and FPV sites do something similar.

[Franco Cozzo]

If you live out in whoop whoop like I do, hybrids for us aren't really worth it, 95% of my driving is all 100km/h highway work, except on the way home the Tulla generally tends to jam up a bit. I'm doing 6.17L/100km (calculated manually) in my 2009 Fiesta CL manual on 95. Mine hasn't had the latest ECU update which fixes the "high" fuel usage issue either.

I reckon if I had a Falcon, I could probably get it to <10L/100km

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

If you live out in whoop whoop like I do, hybrids for us aren't really worth it, 95% of my driving is all 100km/h highway work, except on the way home the Tulla generally tends to jam up a bit. I'm doing 6.17L/100km (calculated manually) in my 2009 Fiesta CL manual on 95. Mine hasn't had the latest ECU update which fixes the "high" fuel usage issue either.

I reckon if I had a Falcon, I could probably get it to <10L/100km

And this is where fuel economy comes into it, making sensible choices with
conventional vehicles reaps just as much benefit as more expensive hybrids..

[MexicanBatman]

i'd get bad economy driving a hybrid

i drove a smart MHD 2 months ago for a few days in spain



i was getting 9L/100km


yes 9L/100km in a 999cc 780kg car that shuts off the engine when your stopped

i guess it's no G6E turbo

what they dont tell you is that the prius gets better economy around town that on the open road

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes it is interesting comparing different prices.

ACCC does not allow car manufacturer web sites to list prices anymore you have to go to "retail sites" like carsales.com.au etc and look at actual cars for sale at actual drive away prices.

On the "new car" prices (taken from the marketing blurb) it shows $3k but if you look through the ACTUAL cars for sale it starts at about $7k and goes up from there.

So as the ACTUAL price of petrol is around $1.20/l and the quoted difference between the hybrid and the petrol (6 vs 8.8) is only 2.8l/100km lets do the maths again.

2.8l/100km @ $1.2/l = $3.36/100km or $3,360 per 100,000km which is about what the hybrid fanbois seem to want to tell you is the break even point but so far all I can find are cars priced with a much higher difference which makes the break even far higher.

Several immediately jumped on my price differences as far too high but they strangely ignored my fuel economy figures which were also far too high and petrol prices which were also far too high.

It is always amusing to read the various threads about saving "huge" amounts of money by using LPG or ethanol or hybrid etc. technology that will only take a few years to pay off the several thousand dollars invested and then 10 minutes later read another thread, sometimes featuring the same posters, on the incredibly good deals they got on 20" bling rims for $lots or a $1300 bulge bonnet for their 6 cylinder or a $squillions doof doof installation or body kit or whatever else.

The funniest sight I saw in California was a whole bunch of Prius traveling
down the No.5 freeway all nose to tail in the pool lane and all doing +80 mph....

There's a debate raging in the USA that CAFE is not reducing the amount of fuel used,
protagonists are saying average vehicle mileage has increase over the past 30 years
as drivers use fuel savings to travel further.

One of the most idiotic arguments I've ever heard concerns the Chevrolet Volt.
While GM claims you can travel the first 60 klms on battery power alone and costs 80 cents
of home electric power, they neatly skirt the fact that Volt costs more than double Cruze's price.
Spending double on a car to preen about only using 80 cents worth of electric power for 60 klms?
Absolutely stupid.

[Bossxr8]

And thats why the Volt should be a failure for GM. They have pinned their hopes on it and spent squllions to develop it but it will be massively overpriced, it will be a hell of a lot more expensive than a Prius.