Little Help? - New engine going in - Serpentine trouble

TURBOTAXI · 01-10-2005, 07:41 PM

Hi Folks,

Whoever said that series 1 2 or 3 AU engines are intherchangeable is only partly right. You need to take the coil pack (and therefore engine mount) and quite a few other things off the dead motor to make the new one compatable.
It has taken me a day to get it out and get all the hard ware off the old motor and on to the new one. That includes drilling and tapping the new sump for an oil drain. Found that my turbo was leaking exhaust gas and uncovered a number of other minor problems. Series one Engine mounts also seem to be the easiest to work with in terms of manouvering. Whoever decided that the four bolts at the top of the bell housing were in a good spot should be shot!. Anyone got any tricks for getting these back in?

With the serpentine, how do you get it on? I think it has something to do with the belt tensioner doovey jiver. I have the belt off because once the AC compressor was loose so was the belt. Any tips for someone that has only done a 120y and a red motor would be appreciated.

Racecraft · 01-10-2005, 07:54 PM

a really long extension bar and a knuckle on the end for the bell housing bolts

the belt, once you have it fed on you can pull it back over the top idler pulley by hand

TURBOTAXI · 01-10-2005, 08:08 PM

Whats a knuckle in this context?
I used a 18 or 19mm spanner.

Racecraft · 01-10-2005, 08:13 PM

the swivel elbow you use on your ratchet and socket set.. universal joint 'SnapOn' call them

TURBOTAXI · 01-10-2005, 08:23 PM

Looks great!
Put it on my shopping list.

Given that I only have the spanner, any way to improve my access?

Racecraft · 01-10-2005, 08:30 PM

depends on how you've gone about it mate, is the radiator out, bonnet off?

get the bottom and side bolts in the trans then undo the rear trans mount, lift the engine up and off the engine mount humps and pull it forward until the idler pulleys are resting against the radiator support panel, you should get enough room to have a swing on a spanner

TURBOTAXI · 01-10-2005, 08:40 PM

Yes the radiator is out, and the bonnet is off. I see!
So once that rear mout is undone and the thread pushed up, the trans shousl slide?

TURBOTAXI · 01-10-2005, 08:43 PM

So if I get the new engine lowered into place, get the side, bottom and convertor bolts in, I just bring to lot forward. - That sounds MUCH better! It must have taken 1.5 hours to get the four bolts at the top out.

Racecraft · 01-10-2005, 08:46 PM

it will put alittle strain on the cooler lines, but if they aren't in the rad your laughing.. Im trying to remember if the yoke on the tailshaft is long enough for it to come forward that far, iirc is it.. You might want to unhook the foremost exhaust donut 9if you have one setup with the turbo zorst.... I am trying to picture it as I go, but it will slide forward hopefully enough for you to get a decent turn on the spanner

Racecraft · 01-10-2005, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TURBOTAXI

So if I get the new engine lowered into place, get the side, bottom and convertor bolts in, I just bring to lot forward. - That sounds MUCH better! It must have taken 1.5 hours to get the four bolts at the top out.

yep thats the ticket mate

good luck

justa6 · 01-10-2005, 10:08 PM

it's worth buying a long extension and knuckle. It's like 5 minutes v's 1 hour, and i'm sure you'll use it again. The extension needs to be 600 - 700mm long

TURBOTAXI · 02-10-2005, 08:20 AM

Thnaks guys, I am psyching up to go out and start again.

Racecraft · 02-10-2005, 08:46 AM

Turbo mate I forgot the gear selection linkage rod, undo that too

TURBOTAXI · 02-10-2005, 09:04 AM

Good point!

buickman · 02-10-2005, 03:52 PM

You really need the correct tools to do certain jobs on cars
Using bushmechanics tools makes the job harder. I have access to good hand & air tools, but if I haven"t got them I hire the tool from total tools or buy it if I think I might use it again.

buickman

TURBOTAXI · 02-10-2005, 08:25 PM

I am happy to say the job is done . It has taken every part of two and a half days, but going for a drive made it more worth it. I am running on Petrol and LPG again. My wrecker motor did not come with the engine harness so I had to transplant the old one onto the new engine.That mean the throttle body had to come over (different TPS with different holes and mechs)
I do have air tools, they made the job easier, I have some other bits an peices like ramps, stands, block and tackle and a gib - a kind of crane on the 3 point linkage on the tractor.
For anyone contemplating this job think twice. I have done 202 holdens in about 3 hours - these are a different kettle of fish. I have never done a car with Power steering, air conditioning and all that other stuff.

The starter motors are almost as bad as the top four bolts on the trans/engine.
I was quoted $1200 for the swap - that included the turbo gear off one to the other so I guess I saved a quid, but I wont be rushing out to do this again. I stress again that cross series engines ARE NOT a direct swap. There are many parts that need to come off the old motor and go onto the new. I found the taxi did not have a thermostat in it, so I put this one together without one. I had some heavy gasket paper from another job and just cut one out. Is this likely to be an issue? I do want a cold motor after all.

Steve_T · 03-10-2005, 01:37 AM

Well, one thing I know is that if your engine temp does not get up high enough, the ECU will think your engine is still warming up and consequently will run it in warm up mode which throws out your mix as it runs way rich. I know people have had this prob by running a thermostat with too cool a rating, so I'd guess running no thermostat would certainly cause this problem. Also, being LPG, you'd wanna be careful with too low a temp. as you need the heat to keep the converter from freezing too - I think that's why LPG models (factory) spec a different thermostat.

Steve_T · 03-10-2005, 01:41 AM

BTW, if you want cooler engine temps but still hot enough not to cause any problems I believe the BPT themostat is the go.

TURBOTAXI · 03-10-2005, 08:06 AM

What is that? What does the BPT do differently?
If warm up mode means advanced timing etc, that woudnlt be a bad thing with the turbo. I got to thinking that taxi's must remove the thermostat because they are never really cold. My LPG system runs independantly of the ECU so I wont have the mixture problems.

Steve_T · 04-10-2005, 12:39 AM

BPT is just a cooler (earlier opening) thermostat. See BPT forums or website for info.

Warm-up mode richens mixture, which will not affect a non-factory LPG setup I guess but will still affect you running on fuel. With V8's you have base timing of 30deg BTDC and I believe warm-up mode holds timing at 10deg - primarily to prevent you flogging the engine until it's warm. I dunno enough about I6s and the manual isn't specific but they have a base timing of 0deg, so I dunno what the ECU does there for warm-up, but I think it's still be retarding not advancing.

I didn't think taxis would/should remove thermostats as I still don't like the idea - the difference in cross-sectional surface area between fully-open thermostat and no thermostat is huge, so must cause much lower temps when running warm also. Cooler is better - but only to a point - too cool can be bad.

I don't know enough about I6s, LPGs or thermodynamics/heat transfer etc. in general, so I can't really say any more, but someone else might be able to give advice and/or correct me.

Steve.

JC · 04-10-2005, 12:49 AM

Steve - I agree. Car manufacturers fit thermostats for a reason - removing it is generally not a performance mod, and a thermostat stuck open is nearly as bad as a thermostat stuck closed.

One effective mod I do know for thermostats is to drill a 4 to 7mm hole through the thermostat base. This keeps water cycling through the engine continuously, and stops some of the overheating issues associated with e series cars - I did this mod on my EF and engine temp just took a little longer to get warm, but when towing in spring/summer, the needle was never in danger of hitting the red zone.

Steve_T · 04-10-2005, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCXR8

Steve - I agree. Car manufacturers fit thermostats for a reason - removing it is generally not a performance mod, and a thermostat stuck open is nearly as bad as a thermostat stuck closed.

One effective mod I do know for thermostats is to drill a 4 to 7mm hole through the thermostat base. This keeps water cycling through the engine continuously, and stops some of the overheating issues associated with e series cars - I did this mod on my EF and engine temp just took a little longer to get warm, but when towing in spring/summer, the needle was never in danger of hitting the red zone.

Thanks mate - you've reminded me a couple of things I forgot to mention too:

Having too much free flow in your cooling system can be as bad as having restricted flow because the higher the velocity of coolant flow, the less time it has for thermal transfer to occur between the components it passes over, so too much flow can actually heat you up - you just gotta find the right 'balance'.

With AU's there was actually a preventative recall they did where a hole was drilled in the thermostat to allow continuous water flow, but it was not for overheating - it was so the constant small flow would gradually warm up the alloy radiator, otherwise the radiator would remain cold until the thermostat suddenly opens and lets hot water through and the thermal shock could crack the radiator - I don't remember if the hole was made in the thermostat itself or the housing, but TURBOTAXI, you may wanna check yours and do this mod if you put a thermostat in just to be safe - I believe it was only a 2mm hole in this case though - I haven't noticed any significant difference in the warm up time of my XR8 with it.

TURBOTAXI · 06-10-2005, 08:55 PM

Thanks guys I will pick up a thermostat and chuck it in.