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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
View Poll Results: Should Police be using vehicle data recorders against owners | |||
Yes |
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24 | 27.59% |
No |
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20 | 22.99% |
Only in extreme cases |
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43 | 49.43% |
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Shakey Isles
Posts: 3,428
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Interested in peoples opinions on this scenario...
I remember seeing a piece in a car mag about the potential for this to happen a while back, but have never actually seen it go this far here in NZ. Is this common practice in Australia or other countries ? Quote:
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#2 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 67
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If the accident causes death or disability yes they should.
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#3 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 436
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#4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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And if the black box is completely wrong what defense do you have?
Has anyone here had one of the computers in their car go silly and do stupid things? I have had idle go up to 2700 rpm, doors lock and unlock randomly, speedo just stop and then start again just to name a few. We have had a couple of threads on how inaccurate speedos are and this "black box" data comes from accelerometers in the same way that "G-Techs" measure 0-400m (and we all know how accurate and reliable those are). |
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#5 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 436
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That is for the defense to argue. The black box should be used as evidence to support the case.
Not saying it cant happen but it would be crazy for someone to be convicted on a black box alone. I would be mighty peed off if the evidence was rejected and I was the one left crippled |
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#6 | ||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
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no: as to what flappist's said, how ever next of kin should be able to ask holden for the read out if they want to know.
the police using the "non" compatable softwear to obtain info is subjective at best.
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I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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#7 | ||||
Back to Le Frenchy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Back home.....
Posts: 13,346
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Quote:
Too many variables and too long between maintenance will cause too many issues for these to be reliable.
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Quote:
07 Renault Sport Megane F1 Team R26 #1397
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#8 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 423
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correct me if I'm wrong but when certain models depoly air bags - the speedo and tacho stay frozen displaying the speed and revs at the time of the crash - A few cop/crash shows feauturing bseries have done this...
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#9 | ||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
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This info from the 'black box' as its being put requires the police to get a warrent to get the info that is stored (if you have a look in a B-series manual it will actually tell you this). Now the info may be helpful, but as long as investigators dont start thinking that its the be all and end all (like the recent DNA debarcle) then I dont see an issue. The data should be used as a tool to help piece together info on a crash. A planes black box is used that way as they still need to investigate the actual plane and what was going on at the time of the crash.
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Daniel |
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#10 | |||
Regular Schmuck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,640
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#11 | ||
71Mach1
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melb
Posts: 465
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I'm wondering when insurance companies are going to start requesting this data to NOT pay out a claim. eg: He was clearly doing 104km/h when the accident occurred.
"Unfortunately, the insurance claim has been voided due to this minor technicality. Have a nice day..."
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roses are #FF0000 violets are #0000FF all my base are belong to you Last edited by JimNiki; 21-05-2010 at 02:15 PM. |
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#12 | |||
love the quad cams
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Baulkham Hills
Posts: 1,490
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#13 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bat Cave
Posts: 1,237
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#14 | ||
zdcol71
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: brisbane
Posts: 1,095
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Question. "Should Police be using vehicle data recorders against owners"
Answer. Yes, as they would and should use, any other information at hand to piece together a body of evidence to be used in a prosecution.
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#15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 727
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I would agree with the evidence being used only as part of a prosecution case for serious road offences.
Yes - the information obtained may be subject to variables, but with other information the prosecution would also use, witnesses, skid marks on road,the ammount of damage caused to each of the vehicles plus any other forensic evidence the police had at its disposal, would also be used to calculate the speed of the collision. Someone has been severely injured, therefore in my book, any evidence that can be obtained to back up claims of excessive speed being a major factor or cause of an accident, and results in a conviction, can only be a good result. |
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#16 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
One could ask: How many times has an airbag deployed because the readings were wrong? Hmmmmm Airbags are only designed to deploy above a certain speed (I think its 40kmh), however if the decelleration is excessive then it will (should) deploy. i.e: when you are sitting still and are hit head on by a car going faster then 40kmh Speedos are as accurate as the ADR allows..... so what is the difference between 110kmh or 100kmh if there is a 10% error? If you as the owner of your car know your speedo is out by 10% then that is your fault for not getting it resolved. Typically cars involved in serious accidents are towed to the Police compound for their crash investigators to inspect the vehicle. This means they seize the vehicle and anything inside. It is released back to the owner/ insurance company after their investigation is complete. Id like to see how far you get if you refuse to have your vehicle checked by them in an investigation.
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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#17 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Quote:
This equates to the average car being completely stripped and recalibrated every 4000-5000km or so as opposed to the current practice of NEVER. The fact that so many are so willing to accept that information supplied for cheap domestic rubbish is gospel is the most frightening although we do live in an age where so many believe anything they read on the internet or see on A Current Affair. The adage "only in extreme cases" is another trap. What is an extreme case? Causing death? What about injury? Causing injury? What about could have caused death or injury? In other words any and every time your car is being driven this would apply because at any time you can cause death or injury can't you. Lets look at hoon laws. How many cars have been confiscated for minor operational indiscretions? A minor chirp or spin leaving the lights in a low traction environment, goodbye car. A short burst of speed in the middle of woop woop, goodbye car. A mechanic working on your car does something silly, goodbye car. An employee talks on a phone and has let their license lapse, goodbye front end loader. Naive do gooder mentality is the source of almost all the injustice, tyranny and autocracy in Australia and the whole "if it just saves one life" dogma will be the epitaph on the gravestone of performance motoring. Look at the big picture people otherwise one day you will be stopped for a "random computer check" and have your car confiscated on the spot for doing 150km/h with a grace period of 24 hours for you to prove that it was on a race track not a road. Of course proving someone else was driving, even the previous owner will just allow you to recover your lost license not recover the "naughty" car......... |
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#18 | ||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
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what annoys me most is the incompatable sofwear used to gather said info.
why wasn't the box sent to HSV for download?? this is not the first time this senario has cam up, holden said no to nsw courts before but their will be a govco intervention sooner rather than later.
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I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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#19 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 727
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Quote:
Flappist _ I can see your logic, but the main issue is the admittance of evidence in a court case. |
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#20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Quote:
Many more times than a GPS receiver has transmitted to a satellite. The airbag systems are designed to check that there is actually an accident happening and you are OVER a certain speed. 41 is over 40, 410 is also over 40 as is any random number between 41 and 160 so if the system can't tell the difference between 60 and 160 it does not matter as it is all over 40 and that is all it needs to know. The problem is not that they can or do look at the data, it is the presumption that this data accurate and valid. How would you feel if you were booked for speeding based on a reading from a "radar gun" bought from Toyworld for $49.95? |
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#21 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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That's why I favor point to point radar speed detection, it weeds out those
that speed everywhere and only slow down for the known single point radar traps.... |
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#22 | |||
Regular Schmuck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,640
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Quote:
Recently did a trip out to Bathurst and I'm glad there was roadworks between the two average speed cameras which meant that there was no way you could break the average posted limit. I could travel at a comfortable speed at around 100kph instead of applying brakes on a downhill section of a two lane highway so I don't exceed the average speed. |
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#23 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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#24 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
Since we are straying off the subject so much here..... RPT aircraft are not serviced at more frequent periods of 100hrs. Yes they go in for a check every 25hrs or so but its to do only a particular part of the aircraft. That way it only takes a few days to do a particular area of the service, instead of many weeks to do a complete service. Extreme cases.... what is more extreme then serious injury? death? Since you decided to use aircraft as an example, every RPT accident or incident is investigated and EVERYONE is put through the wringer. Would you prefer when an airliner crashes and killed people they dont investigate it using EVERY means possible? Because what your saying is exactly that in the case of a motor vehicle accident. That Police should not do anything and sit on their ***** all day. So what if they didnt go to Holden to get the thing read. Holden DIDNT make it.... Bosch did. Quote:
The idiot was on a public road talking on a phone without a license.... Again you seem to prefer people doing anything they want without any form of repocussions....
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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#25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
You just lamented before about a guy driving unlicenced and talking on his mobile phone having a front end loader taken away from him..... and here you are saying that you prefer cops on the road instead of speed cameras. Amazing how quick the thread topic goes astray
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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#26 | |||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
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Quote:
but by that logic why didnt they take it to ford?? fact is bosch is just hardware with rudamentry bios, gm, ford, merc, and all else add their own softwear
__________________
I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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#27 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 18,985
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Big brother can get stuffed...
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#28 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
To prove the speed Hohaia was travelling, police sent the Holden's airbag data unit to William Haight, director of the San Diego Collision Safety Institute. Mr Haight told the court via video conference yesterday that 2.5 seconds before the crash Hohaia's Holden was travelling at 150kmh and 0.5 seconds before the crash it was travelling at 98kmh. If your going to read it you take it to the manufacturer or a company/ organistion who is impartial.
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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#29 | ||||
Life begins at 40
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne. Socialist capital of Victoriastan.
Posts: 3,715
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Quote:
What has our country come to? The Kenworth I drive is GPS tracked, and that means everything, braking applications, braking distance, deceleration, G forces in corners, the lot. But, if I were to have some major accident, the police would be kicking the front door of my employer in demanding the data from the vehicle under the “chain of responsibility” laws. Whether they get this information or not, I’m not sure but they would give it a bloody good try. They have no right to this from anyone. If they want to convict someone, they can damn well do the investigation themselves, not rely on outside data that in many cases, they have to legal right to. In my opinion, we are becoming a police state.
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Justice is what you get when you run out of money.
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#30 | |||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
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Quote:
and thats a mistake on it's own.... airbag data
__________________
I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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