Melbourne Storm stripped of premierships

[Racecraft]

Originally Posted by Wally

I understand this is not the case. As far as the player is concerned he is getting paid what the contract states. However the contract he signed and the contract copy given to the NRL are two different things. One set of accounts would be for the board with consolidated wages less the excess salary cap, the difference being hidden under some expense item. The other book would be used for PAYG, etc so as not to attract the taxation dept.

Neither the agent nor the player would necessarily know there is anything wrong, because they wouldn't be privy to accumulated team payments.

a very valid point, but afaik take Prince on the coast for example. He was investigated for a 'free' home as part of his package. Never did they research the Titans per say, for cap breaches. They investigated the player. How come they can make a huge deal of a second set of books if it is as easy as to check a players actual payments as per Prince? Seems abit chicken and the egg imo.

Do contracted NRL players have a clause that alows the NRL to inspect their club payments, endorsements and bank balances? The media reports of the Prince case would tend to indicate they do.

[HULK EF]

Originally Posted by just_pazz

Yeah I barrack for Collingwood... but I fortunately have all my teeth.

Face it mate.... League is not wanted in this state. Hell.... if you wanna follow the rugby down here you've either gotta show up at a storm match, pay for Foxtel or wait till 12-1am in the morning on a Saturday night and channel nine may replay a match. The number don't lie....

At least when I lived in Nrth Qld I could catch my few games a week of AFL no worries. I say give the new stadium to the victory and the heart, a code worthy at least of the name "football", and NRL cut your losses and go back home.

same could be said of the new western sydney afl team or dwindling swans fan base.. but i do understand this is no afl nrl soccer slang match thread..
Try selling your hardline stance to the true die hard storm supporters living in your state.. While yes the AFL is the majority you cannot dismis the minority..

And yes.. is a damn shame coverage is so poor down in melbourne for NRL.. even herald sun usualy has little normal nrl content..

[Redrum]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Give-M...?ref=nf&v=wall

[flappist]

With regard to "give them their premiership back"....

If it were discovered, for example, that Toll Racing's 2006 V8SC was illegally modded for greater performance and Rick Kelly had no knowledge of this should he still be the 2006 champion?

[AC/DC]

Melbourne Storm deserve everything they got. And it will be interesting to see the fallout about the players. The players knew exactly what was going on. So did the coach.

[just_pazz]

Originally Posted by HULK EF

same could be said of the new western sydney afl team or dwindling swans fan base.. but i do understand this is no afl nrl soccer slang match thread..
Try selling your hardline stance to the true die hard storm supporters living in your state.. While yes the AFL is the majority you cannot dismis the minority..

And yes.. is a damn shame coverage is so poor down in melbourne for NRL.. even herald sun usualy has little normal nrl content..

Yep and I totally agree that the AFL are wasting their time in the heartland of Rugby league... it will be a costly exercise as the code is not wanted there.

The AFL will throw lotsa money and and increased salary cap at them like the lions to ensure their success. Doesn't mean it will change the peoples attitude to AFL... seen it first hand in my adventures north.

[mattp]

It seems a lot of people on here are lucky enough to have knowledge of everything that's happened in detail, right down to each individual player's grasp of accounting, with all the accusations of "of course they knew" etc etc, please feel free to share this insider knowledge with the rest of us.
Unless you're actually just ignorant and one-eyed that is?

[vztrt]

Had a guy at work telling us (he from up north) about teams getting around the salary cap....then I read this.

http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-leagu...0423-thdh.html

'Everyone does it': Waldron's excuse for cheating
SCOTT SPITS
April 23, 2010 - 3:09PM

"Because everyone does".

That was the reason Brian Waldron gave Melbourne Storm chairman Dr Rob Moodie when quizzed about why he had orchestrated the blatant salary cap cheating that has cost the club two premierships.

Speaking at Princes Park today, Moodie said Waldron had expressed his regret about the salary cap cheating exposed by the NRL yesterday.

Described as the architect of the widespread breaches of the cap, Waldron has not been seen or heard from since the NRL announced the massive penalties, including the stripping of two premierships, the loss of competition points and $1.6 million in fines. Waldron is understood to be hiding out in a holiday home.

Moodie said he had a conversation with Waldron four days ago as he became aware of the rorts, and was told by Waldron that salary cap cheating was a widespread practice in the NRL.

"The response, of course, is 'because everyone does'," Moodie said he was told by Waldron when he quizzed the former Storm CEO about his reasons for cheating the salary cap.

"This was about 'if we want to be competitive, everybody else does it. We have to do it'," Moodie recalled.

When asked how he personally felt towards Waldron, Moodie had one quick word: ‘‘Betrayed.’’

‘‘We are absolutely devasted by what’s happened. And as John Hartigan pointed out yesterday - him (Waldron) being the architect of it - we are now seeking so many people suffer from the actions of very, very few.’’

The Storm chairman reiterated today that he had told News Limited he was prepared to resign, given the breaches had occurred under his chairmanship, but was unsure whether that would be accepted.

"I’ve offered my resignation to (club owners) News Limited and it will stay there," Moodie told reporters today.

‘‘They haven’t accepted it. It’s a question of whether I’ll walk away or whether I stay ... if News want me to go, I will go.’’

Moodie also could not guarantee the future of the Melbourne Storm, but if the club survived, he pledged there would be no more cheating.

"We don’t want this to happen again. It’s destroying us. It’s a cancer in the game," Moodie said.

‘‘We don’t think the club will fold but we have to get back and rebuild.

‘‘There’s a possibility the club will fold but we have strong support from News Limited - who wants to keep rugby league alive and well in Victoria - and has indicated they’ll help the Storm rebuild.

‘‘We certainly hope that we’ve cut the cancer out. But we want to see the game grow ... rugby league has an important place to play in Victoria.

‘‘We know the government feels that way, as well.’’

with AAP

[robbyg]

Just heard on the media from the captain of the storm, there are only a couple of the players who have done wrong and have its a shame they have tarnished the whole club, until i heard that i have been a swinging voter on player knowledge of the scam, interesting when we find out who they are, dont these players have managers to look after their financial things, may be they need a kick in the ****, dont really know?

[djrice]

boooo the storm always someone has to spoil our great game now melbourne wont have a good nrl team that sucks

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by robbyg

Just heard on the media from the captain of the storm, there are only a couple of the players who have done wrong and have its a shame they have tarnished the whole club, until i heard that i have been a swinging voter on player knowledge of the scam, interesting when we find out who they are, dont these players have managers to look after their financial things, may be they need a kick in the ****, dont really know?

considering hes the main culprit, as reported by the media, his whinging doesnt have much substance

[rodderz]

There was a guy on radio last night who was a player manager, he mentioned that deals are done between the club officials and the manager, info is then passed on to the player. He said it would be unlikely that all the players would get together to add one another's paypacket up to see if they all were within the salary cap/

He didnt mentioned how the player got paid- was it payments made as a sum every month, per week, whatever. Extra payment could of been made as a transaction with the official payment but recorded as a smaller figure at the club end. I think thats what Moody is insinuating- that Waldron thought up a plan to get more money to players to keep them, but in a way that they were unaware of extra payments (just getting their wages as per normal), and that the club would be recording a lesser amount.

Assuming that 95% of the club didn't even know about the rort, it doesnt change the fact they played and trained their guts out all year to achieve a premiership. They operate their business and marketing very well down here, and every year the crowd numbers swell. I've been to quite a few home games and none have been close to empty. You can't really blame the whole club for a few idiots who did wrong, hopefully the ongoing investigation by Hartigan exposes just who was to blame, who knew and who should be kicked out and face the music.

[FGII-XR6]

the way I see it the contract a player signs for say 200K (just to have a figure to use) which the NRL has a copy dictates the money a player would receive if he was not involved in the fraud. if the player actually receives 400K he would know the extra money was outside the limits of the cap meaning he was involved in the fraud that the storm has commited the only reason the player would receive more money is if he negotiated the extra (illegal) payment. I hope the ATO rip them a new one, I have allways felt professional footballers belive they are above the law maybe they will learn to play by the rules after the fallout from this

Originally Posted by RG

Really?

You have no clue how player payments work quite obviously, it isn't quite as straight cut as you may think.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by flappist

With regard to "give them their premiership back"....

If it were discovered, for example, that Toll Racing's 2006 V8SC was illegally modded for greater performance and Rick Kelly had no knowledge of this should he still be the 2006 champion?

Sort of same and then sort of different.

[prydey]

i haven't read through the thread, and i'm not really up with how it all works, but if a team of players is in breach of salary cap, does that mean, for the rest of 2010 and beyond, a number of the players have to take a pay cut to stay together or do some of the players have to leave the club??

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by prydey

i haven't read through the thread, and i'm not really up with how it all works, but if a team of players is in breach of salary cap, does that mean, for the rest of 2010 and beyond, a number of the players have to take a pay cut to stay together or do some of the players have to leave the club??

I would say it means the only pay they get now is the pay on the official book, not the second one.

[Falc'man]

The claim of "they all do it" is rubbish. Innocent until proven guilty.

The Sharks, for example, can't even reach the cap. It's probably a bad example as they've always been crap, but, until proven otherwise all (the other) teams are legit.

Originally Posted by au3xr6

the way I see it the contract a player signs for say 200K (just to have a figure to use) which the NRL has a copy dictates the money a player would receive if he was not involved in the fraud. if the player actually receives 400K he would know the extra money was outside the limits of the cap meaning he was involved in the fraud that the storm has commited the only reason the player would receive more money is if he negotiated the extra (illegal) payment. I hope the ATO rip them a new one, I have allways felt professional footballers belive they are above the law maybe they will learn to play by the rules after the fallout from this

That's what it boils down to. They (the players) either know what they're getting, or not. And every player knows how much he's getting. As you mention, that is the "official" value the NRL sees and there's no way a player can earn more than this without knowing.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by prydey

i haven't read through the thread, and i'm not really up with how it all works, but if a team of players is in breach of salary cap, does that mean, for the rest of 2010 and beyond, a number of the players have to take a pay cut to stay together or do some of the players have to leave the club??

i believe they can stay above the salary cap this year, but must have their house in order next february. from reports i have read that seems to be the case
i guess it doesn't really matter if they stay above it, because they cannot claim any points anyway
although, with losing sponsors etc. can they still afford to pay them at all

[vanman_75]

there goes a night out i had planned while in melbourne in may , must say they get what they deserve rules are rules .glad i hadn't payed for tickets yet ...

[rodderz]

Cam Smith has said they will try to take a pay cut to fit in the cap...but by how much and how many will be taken by other clubs. I wonder if other clubs will have to pay their contract out to get them early?

[JC]

While what the NRL has done seems to be the right thing, but is it really? The NRL wants/wanted a team in Melbourne, and I'm sure the fan base down south was growing, but I'd say they will have lost a heap of fans now, and will probably never recover; not while people have their memory intact, at least. Maybe they (NRL & News limited) were sick of losing money down south, and took this action to pull the Storm out and relocate them (probably as a different team/name & location).

I can see some other teams around the place now negotiating new contracts with players to make sure they all fit under the salary cap, because I don't reckon melbourne would be the only club to have stretched the rules.

[RG]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

the way I see it the contract a player signs for say 200K (just to have a figure to use) which the NRL has a copy dictates the money a player would receive if he was not involved in the fraud. if the player actually receives 400K he would know the extra money was outside the limits of the cap meaning he was involved in the fraud that the storm has commited the only reason the player would receive more money is if he negotiated the extra (illegal) payment. I hope the ATO rip them a new one, I have allways felt professional footballers belive they are above the law maybe they will learn to play by the rules after the fallout from this

But while that player may know what he is getting he wouldn't know what ALL his teammates are getting and how/if that fits under the cap.

[FGII-XR6]

but he would know he was getting more than was disclosed to the NRL now I know there have been many jokes regarding the inteligence of professional sportsmen but can they be stupid enough to belive there is nothing dodgy anout receiving this extra cash, and even if they dont think about the NRL they must know the extra money off the books is tax fraud either way the players are guilty of bringing the game int disrepute

Originally Posted by RG

But while that player may know what he is getting he wouldn't know what ALL his teammates are getting and how/if that fits under the cap.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

but he would know he was getting more than was disclosed to the NRL now I know there have been many jokes regarding the inteligence of professional sportsmen but can they be stupid enough to belive there is nothing dodgy anout receiving this extra cash, and even if they dont think about the NRL they must know the extra money off the books is tax fraud either way the players are guilty of bringing the game int disrepute

i agree - i would even assume that the nrl/afl etc. would have access to the players tax declarations. they probably would not be allowed to have access directly to the tax department, but if the salary cap is not a total farce, then the players contracts would force them to show their declarations when asked, to make sure the books are balanced

i doubt there is a single person who is trying to be totally honest with their earnings that do not know just how much they made. i can give a very close figure off the top of my head. it matches what my group certificate says. if there was $20,000 difference, then i could not play dumb. i would certainly know and therefore would be guilty if the taxman ever came knocking

[prydey]

whats the difference between extra cash payments, and buying a player a block of land or a nice house somewhere? do they put it down as club expenditure and not salary or something?

the idea of a salary cap is obviously to control the amount of talent you have under 1 roof. if players decide to take a pay cut to fit within this cap, there is a good chance, if they are good enough, that offers of more money will come from other clubs, which means if they decide to chase the coin, the club they are with has no room left in the cap to offer more and so the player leaves the club anyway. players taking pay cuts to stay together is admirable but it is a short term thing and doesn't work.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by prydey

whats the difference between extra cash payments, and buying a player a block of land or a nice house somewhere? do they put it down as club expenditure and not salary or something?

the idea of a salary cap is obviously to control the amount of talent you have under 1 roof. if players decide to take a pay cut to fit within this cap, there is a good chance, if they are good enough, that offers of more money will come from other clubs, which means if they decide to chase the coin, the club they are with has no room left in the cap to offer more and so the player leaves the club anyway. players taking pay cuts to stay together is admirable but it is a short term thing and doesn't work.

Pay cuts are not acceptable by NRL.. I would assume ?? Atleast 4 players will have to go..

[prydey]

media is talking about slater could be lured into changing codes. i guess you would need a club with a fair bit of room in their cap, or the other option was western sydney. inglis was also mentioned. i can't see it though.

[GTJOHN]

As a Bulldogs Fan , i can say this is a sad time for storm ..
I feel for the Fans and the players , who have been labelled cheats ..
The NRL bought this upon themselves with a cap that only breed mediocrity ...
Yes they paid overs for their team , but im sure all the clubs do it to keep a decent roster...there needs to be a overhaul in the way the cap is...A team raises and trains players into champions , only to have to let them go to support other teams who cannot replicate this feat...its a joke
I also think that the storm players will put in a good effort , they will play for pride..im not a stoem fan, but i hope they do manage to survive and stay competitive..id hate to see players forced to go to a mediocre side , so the nrl can have a more even comp...we will end up with 16 mediocre sides the way NRL is going

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Pay cuts are not acceptable by NRL.. I would assume ?? Atleast 4 players will have to go..

pay cuts have been done before.

[bingoTE50]

It is not always about cash /salary payments. The auditors will always look at sponsors gifts etc , just like the tax department would to determine if these are part of a salary package. You way well find that the "rort" is not all cash based.
Years ago players were paid executive salaries for being a barman or cellerman in a leagues club . Players would be at the club and have a "win" on the pokies and walk out with a paperbag full of cash. All about player retention.
I was interested in the publicity stunt of Bellamy and the players meeting the fans and preaching solidarity,good marketing,but at the end of the day when it comes to renegotiating contracts ,the team will be dismantled.The players are only human and like you and me ,would be reluctant to earn less with their existing employer.
I think the NRL are going overboard on this . Giving back Premierships is rubbish.They lost a a Grand Final to Brisbane in this period.Manly won a comp.Melbourne still were rorting the cap in this period you would summise. Parramatta were well in the game last year.
If anything,they are belittling the efforts of the other teams who lost ....sorry guys...the big bad Storm paid too much money ,which made their players supermen,so you really had no chance.Fine them and move on,the no points is rubbish,just like it was for the Bulldogs,the NRL are tarnishing its own brand.
If News Limited were not involved ,they would have been more lenient,there is bad blood at a boardroom level,it all goes back to the Superleague war.