Let's jump on trucks yet again

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Alright, firstly - it's not irrelevant, in fact it's very relevant. The truck driver is NOT going to be charged, ergo...he WASN'T in the wrong. Or as you will say, 'maybe he was, they just can't prove it blah blah blah'.

You might want to do some light reading, perhaps brush up on the law...?

Perhaps you can direct me to the one that says hitting a vehicle in front of you is okay if you are driving a truck.

Originally Posted by Sezzy

\Secondly, you drove the Hume ONCE recently? Is that right? You don't sound like you're really qualified to make assumptions about one day of traffic

If I had only driven the Hume once, Id of mentioned that and have qualified my comment.

Ive only driven the Hume to Sydney a couple of times recently, but drive it from Melb to Wangaratta on a monthly basis so I feel more than qualified to other an opinion on the nature of the traffic that does the Sydney to Melb route.

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Simply put, dual lanes are required as you go up the Eastern States, be it the Hume or the Newell.
.

Says you.

Originally Posted by Sezzy

And having driven the Newell on more than one occasion from Brisbane to Victoria (I'd say every 4 months for 4 years is pretty 'regular' compared to the average person), there is NO huge difference in traffic, even when you take the trucks out - why do you think B-Doubles leave yards at 3, 4, 5 and 6 in the afternoon? As far as knowing what you're talking about - you're far from the mark.
.

Sorry, you are now talking about the Newell, not something that I was commenting on, but it would appear that you are not familiar with traffic on the Hume.

The 2nd or overtaking lane on the Hume is used basically only for overtaking, and provides a release when there is roadworks which would only need to happen on 1/100 of the occasions if there was no trucks.....quote me on that if you will.

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Now out of curiosity...who is actually qualified to speak in that respect? Someone who keeps harping about not requiring a dual carriageway heading into rural NSW if all road transport is switched to rail?

Or the drivers and staff who make sure that everything gets their safely...
.

Nice strawman, no I didnt advocate or harp on about switching the Hume to one lane and removing every bit of truck travel, the scenario was put to me by someone else in the thread.

Asking the road transport industry what they want....talk about having the inmates run the asylum.

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Simply put for those who think it's absurd - fatigue management was and still is, an integral part of a business. It was introduced for a reason, no, it's not fantastic - but it stops the general public whinging. Actually it probably doesn't, because people rabbit on that books are changed, blah blah blah.

- STANDARD hours are still 12 hours.
- Basic Fatigue management allows DRIVING for 14 hours
- Advanced Fatigue management allows operators to be a little more flexible than both the above, obviously dependent on the risk of their business.

.

So its legal for petrol tankers drivers to do 14 hrs a day? Ok, that is a concern, I thought they operated on much higher guidelinses, but maybe no surprise given the number of incidents they seem to have with obvious consequences.

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I'm not singling you out, I'm stating facts. Ones that you seem to have overlooked as they don't suit.
.

With regards to fatigue management yes, everything else, just your opinion.

[burnz]

from melb to wangaratta or sydney,, you have trouble with traffic??
or more acuratly "trucks"..

on a duell lane carrage way thats 800+kls and you have problems with trucks??

sound like vic drivers are the most arrogant driver going, judgeing from this thread..

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Perhaps you can direct me to the one that says hitting a vehicle in front of you is okay if you are driving a truck.

Now you're just being obtuse, and ignorant to the actual law. You don't know the full story and neither do the rest of us. The incident occurred in January...if the truck driver was going to be charged. They would have charged him by now - even if just for negligent driving causing death. Now does that indicate to you that perhaps in this instance...it wasn't the trucks fault? I guess not, because you're like a bull terrier with a chew toy, you just keep going.

Originally Posted by sudzy

If I had only driven the Hume once, Id of mentioned that and have qualified my comment.
Ive only driven the Hume to Sydney a couple of times recently, but drive it from Melb to Wangaratta on a monthly basis so I feel more than qualified to other an opinion on the nature of the traffic that does the Sydney to Melb route.

No you wouldn't have...I'm glad you feel more than qualified, I have a sneaking suspicion that many would disagree with you there.

Originally Posted by sudzy

Says you.

What are you 5? Are you actually aware of what's going on around you, or just putting the blinkers on and being a little naive to the whole thing?

Originally Posted by sudzy

Sorry, you are now talking about the Newell, not something that I was commenting on, but it would appear that you are not familiar with traffic on the Hume.

I don't care if you were only commenting on the Hume. You can't base an argument on one section - if you're seriously going to sit here and take that viewpoint - you need to learn to cover ALL bases, not just the ones that suit you. The Newell is also a prominent truck route, just like the Hume. Why would they not both be covered together in the same discussion?

Originally Posted by sudzy

The 2nd or overtaking lane on the Hume is used basically only for overtaking, and provides a release when there is roadworks which would only need to happen on 1/100 of the occasions if there was no trucks.....quote me on that if you will.

I'd say I can't be bothered, but you'll probably pick at that too...so...you're naive...and if you think it's just for providing a release when there's roadworks...you're an idiot. Of course it's used for overtaking...Surely that's a lot safer than having someone try and overtake on a single carriageway, right?

Originally Posted by sudzy

Nice strawman, no I didnt advocate or harp on about switching the Hume to one lane and removing every bit of truck travel, the scenario was put to me by someone else in the thread.

No strawman, and for god sake find something else...that's getting old too - you've said we don't need them as rail is much more efficient...no doubt you'll pull up some crap and quote yourself, but it seems to be the gist from your general ideas on trucks.

Originally Posted by sudzy

Asking the road transport industry what they want....talk about having the inmates run the asylum.

I didn't say asking what they want. I said who is more qualified to give an opinion - you or them?

Originally Posted by sudzy

So its legal for petrol tankers drivers to do 14 hrs a day? Ok, that is a concern, I thought they operated on much higher guidelinses, but maybe no surprise given the number of incidents they seem to have with obvious consequences.

Yes, it most certainly is. They do operate under higher guidelines, a national one...and that's it - the NHVAS - National Heavy Vehicle Accreditation Scheme. But it seems you're not happy with that either...

Originally Posted by sudzy

With regards to fatigue management yes, everything else, just your opinion.

No sudzy, not just my opinion...why don't you ask around. You might just be surprised.

Your rhetoric won't work here...

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

What are you doing on freeways if you can only go 80km/h?

Its not common but being nice and making the lives of other drivers goes a long way, e.g - slowing down/speeding up to let another person merge onto the freeway easier, slowing down to increase the gap.

Theres certainly bad truck drivers, but the amount of bad car drivers is easily 10X that.

NSW have this stupid ******* law that dictates that Learners MUST not exceed 80 km/h. NSW is so backward with this law, they need to move into the 21st century. I used to work as a driver trainer and have also trained kids (in Victoria) to drive on Freeways at 110 km/h.

I have also pointed out to young people from NSW who are in Victoria that they can sit on 110 kim/h on our Freeways and 100 km/h on other major roads.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by teak81

yeh mate you wouldn't have a clue what your on about. i work under fatigue managemant and i can legally work 15 hours a day. that is 14 hrs driving and a one hour break.

Sure sure you are a paragone of virtue and strength , nothing phases you and you never tire .

[FgNewbie]

Originally Posted by teak81

yeh mate you wouldn't have a clue what your on about. i work under fatigue managemant and i can legally work 15 hours a day. that is 14 hrs driving and a one hour break.

Does your fatigue management include lots of cans of V & 120 smokes a day to stay awake too ?

Is that form of fatigue management deemed appropriate?

Originally Posted by BIGJB

Those imparticular klms are from when I was sub contracting, 7 days a week 2 days off per year for 6 yrs straight.
Deliverying donuts and meat pies to 24hr convenience stores and service stations. Would start at 4pm and finish on a good day at 7am.
Only driving a LR so no log books. Lots of cans of V, red frogs and 120 smokes a day to stay awake. lol

I don't think it's funny but I'm not going there.

Doing the math based on averages only, I'm surprised that on a good day you can average around 55 km an hour while delivering to 24hr convenience stores.

To state the obvious... If you keep consuming lots of V & 120 smokes a day to stay awake, you might get your early retirement, possibly not the one you hoped for. Even worse, you might live to regret it. If your health doesn't bite you, the next smash might.

[Whoosha]

nah 6 pages on it doesn't matter the Op has been lost. But if you want a specific Question and answer post a question in the 18 wheels and more section
http://www.fordforums.com.au/forumdisplay.php?f=310
and if you can keep it civil a few that know may enlighten you on their perspective .

[TheSneakiness]

As someone who has two truck drivers in his family (step dad carting concrete and fly ash all over SE QLD and a brother in law doing milk delivery on the Sunshine Coast), I know what these guys do day in day out and what they have to put up with.

Simply put, if the driver in question was on a mobile phone on a major highway and did slow down to 30km/h in a 100km/h zone, then the driver deserves a Darwin award.

The amount of times I've seen people cut in and out of in front of trucks is amazing. It's these brain dead morons that think a truck can stop from 100km/h in mere seconds and metres that not only cry foul when something bad does happen, but they also create the rules that EVERYONE has to abide by. Fair?

I hope the family involved takes a step back and thinks about what actually happened that caused this, stupidity is hereditary and it does rub off onto others.

[SB076]

Would like to know more details but I suppose none will be realeased.

I have seen first hand a car (I am a car driver myself) drive along at 90 - 110k's in the right hand lane, than panick as they realise they are about to miss their exit and hit the brakes causing chaos behind them.

It would be interesting to find out why she slowed, as presumbaly traffic was still at speed. At the end of the day there are simply some driving errors that unfortunatey will lead to lose of life.

@ Werd I dont mind truckies indicating then moving over, I much prefer that to other drivers interpretation of the law, which is move over than indicate. At least if gives me a heads up

No point introducing a law to keep trucks out of the right hand lane, we already have a law that states keep left unless overtaking which is never enforced.

[BIGJB]

Originally Posted by FgNewbie

To state the obvious... If you keep consuming lots of V & 120 smokes a day to stay awake, you might get your early retirement, possibly not the one you hoped for. Even worse, you might live to regret it. If your health doesn't bite you, the next smash might.

I should have added earlier that the V, red frogs and smokes comment was a was a bit of light hearted humour.
But in all seriousness you are doing the maths purely on assumption of where I traveled to.

I drove from Currumbin to Ashmore on motorway. Ashmore to Lytton on motorway, Lytton to NoosaVille on a motorway.
Caboolture to Bribie Island all of these with multipule stops inbetween. Those destonations alone are near 600klms per night.
So no average speed is no where near 55kph without breaking any speed limits.

[xisled]

[QUOTE=Sezzy]Now you're just being obtuse, and ignorant to the actual law. You don't know the full story and neither do the rest of us. The incident occurred in January...if the truck driver was going to be charged. They would have charged him by now - even if just for negligent driving causing death. Now does that indicate to you that perhaps in this instance...it wasn't the trucks fault? I guess not, because you're like a bull terrier with a chew toy, you just keep going.


The driver may have not been charged as yet. A lot of cases where a death has happened due to a road accident, charges can takes months and sometimes years. They may be even waiting on the coroner's report, witnesses or forensics from the vehicles involved.

But a lot of times the vehicle traveling behind has the greater responsibility to be able to stop in time. It seems like this case is still being investigated at the time the article was printed.

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by sudszy

and you drive a fuel tanker?, if that is the industry reg? and not being personal here: then all I can do is scream that is absurd!

what do you mean absurd. that is the government and transport departments rules mate. we carry log books that document when we start where we go. my truck has satillite tracking system and if i dont have my break the whole truck shuts down until i do so. it's not that big of hours. for example mackay to brisbane takes 12 and a half hours, you could do that on a shift maybe unload, then you have a 10 hour break and start again.

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by FgNewbie

Does your fatigue management include lots of cans of V & 120 smokes a day to stay awake too ?

Is that form of fatigue management deemed appropriate?



I don't think it's funny but I'm not going there.

Doing the math based on averages only, I'm surprised that on a good day you can average around 55 km an hour while delivering to 24hr convenience stores.

To state the obvious... If you keep consuming lots of V & 120 smokes a day to stay awake, you might get your early retirement, possibly not the one you hoped for. Even worse, you might live to regret it. If your health doesn't bite you, the next smash might.

no mate i dont smoke and i dont carry a lighter as i drive a fuel tanker and i drink lots of water. that v and mother and all that tastes crap. seems to me some people on this forum haven't worked a proper day in their life. truck drivers arent the only ones that do long hour miners also do shift work. also coal ships and what not. so not to single out the truck driver.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by teak81

truck drivers arent the only ones that do long hour miners also do shift work. also coal ships and what not. so not to single out the truck driver.

Some of the worst I have seen for LONG unregulated driving hours are taxi drivers, and I bet some of these wanna be truckies who are posting in here trust their drunken lives with these blokes on their way home from a night-club at 5.00 in the morning, I trust a truckie a long way before one of these tossers.

Some taxi drivers are doing 16 -20 hours a day 7 days a week, all un-regulated, my bro-in-law is a former owner (and a current truck driver), one of my former truck driver mates is a current taxi licence owner. It is unreal the unregualted hours they can and do do

[Mechan1k]

I know what you mean Trev ... and you should see the way the buggers drive ... if people want to whinge about bad driving ... it's not the truck drivers that are the worst ... it's the cabbies. From my experience ... Sydney ones are shockers.

[BIGJB]

Thats a dam good point Trev that I hadn't thought of until you posted it. I use to live with a cab driver, was a few
yrs ago now but I do remember he used to lease the cabs for 48 hrs over the weekend so he could "make the real money"
as he called it. Would come home for maybe 4hrs sleep during that period of time and this was on top of the 16 odd hour days
he did on the other 3 days of the week he worked. I would have thought that by now they would have done something to
regulate the hours these guys work the same as they have with us.... obviously not if what you are saying is correct.

[SEZ213]

OT I know, but they're supposed to be under the same kind of rules with regard to fatigue management, but in saying that, I was forced to take a cab home one night (no trains available). The cabby fell asleep at a set of traffic lights...suffice to say, I walked a long way home that night...

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by teak81

what do you mean absurd. that is the government and transport departments rules mate. we carry log books that document when we start where we go. my truck has satillite tracking system and if i dont have my break the whole truck shuts down until i do so. it's not that big of hours. for example mackay to brisbane takes 12 and a half hours, you could do that on a shift maybe unload, then you have a 10 hour break and start again.

Here is what I wrote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

and you drive a fuel tanker?, if that is the industry reg? and not being personal here: then all I can do is scream that is absurd!

obviously I have acknowledged that these are the govco regs etc, and are not holding your personally responsible for those.

Perhaps you can elaborate, how long are you allowed to drive without any break in those 14 hours you are allowed each 24 hours?

If anything for me this is indeed an eye opener, bus drivers are limited to 12 hours per day, but vehicles that have the potential to inflict catsastrophe have less stringent requirements.

Ill be keeping even further away from any fuel tankers/hazardous load vehicles.

[XDV800]

[IMG][/IMG]

This is getting ridiculous

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Here is what I wrote:


obviously I have acknowledged that these are the govco regs etc, and are not holding your personally responsible for those.

Perhaps you can elaborate, how long are you allowed to drive without any break in those 14 hours you are allowed each 24 hours?

If anything for me this is indeed an eye opener, bus drivers are limited to 12 hours per day, but vehicles that have the potential to inflict catsastrophe have less stringent requirements.

Ill be keeping even further away from any fuel tankers/hazardous load vehicles.

you can drive for 6 hrs than have a half an hour break, then 5hrs and have another half an hour break. or in the first 6 hours you can have 2 fifteen minute breaks and 2 fifteen minute breaks within the next 5hours.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by sudszy

If anything for me this is indeed an eye opener.

For you my good sir, primary school should have been an eye opener.

Originally Posted by sudszy

Bus drivers are limited to 12 hours per day, but vehicles that have the potential to inflict catsastrophe have less stringent requirements.

So what you’re saying is that you can’t cause a catastrophe with a bus?

This is another prime example of your total ignorance on this subject.

Point 1. Bus and coach drivers, to my understanding, under the new legislation, have a more flexible arrangement to their working hours than truck drivers. You really need not worry about that, however, do you take the bus often?

Originally Posted by sudszy

Ill be keeping even further away from any fuel tankers/hazardous load vehicles.

Point 2. In the 21 years that I’ve been driving trucks, nine of those years were driving tankers: petrol, gas and pneumatic, and you are actually talking about the most over-regulated section of the entire road transport industry. If you like statistics, and I think that you like them a little too much, you are most likely, a lot safer travelling near a tanker than a bus, but I’d never expect you to understand that.

When it comes to working hours, personally, I prefer not to work under BFM or AFM because quite frankly, the system is flawed. The new rules were conceived by a bunch of numpties at the NTC who have about the same level of transport knowledge, common sense and wisdom as you have on this subject.

Actually, did you work at the NTC?

Now, you’ve stolen enough oxygen from around here, please go away.

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Governments should be encouraging freight onto rail and off the roads.

Western ring road is full of trucks being driven by lunatics.

Trucks are a common topic at work and 99.99% of people hate them.

Yeah! Damn right! In my suburb we have railway lines backing on to every shop and service station, and they come directly from every farm and wharf in the country...

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Yeah! Damn right! In my suburb we have railway lines backing on to every shop and service station, and they come directly from every farm and wharf in the country...

Yeah, that is unreal we have a train track right to our front door in Country Victoria and to my neighbours as well. And hell there is even a train line driectly to the front door of my work, and to Winton raceway was well, I have been there and there is a train line right to their pit area and that should make it easier for those big bad trucks to get the V8 Supercars up there, bloody fantastic things these trains.

And did you know that the trains stop at every shop in the main street of where I live to drop of 2 boxes of goods.

FFS, do these people live in another world or what?

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

For you my good sir, primary school should have been an eye opener.

Funniest post i've read in years.

[350125GO]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Yeah, that is unreal we have a train track right to our front door in Country Victoria and to my neighbours as well. And hell there is even a train line driectly to the front door of my work, and to Winton raceway was well, I have been there and there is a train line right to their pit area and that should make it easier for those big bad trucks to get the V8 Supercars up there, bloody fantastic things these trains.

And did you know that the trains stop at every shop in the main street of where I live to drop of 2 boxes of goods.

FFS, do these people live in another world or what?

Think what they are trying to say is let trains do the bulk long distance work and have main hubs where trucks distrubute from there.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

For you my good sir, primary school should have been an eye opener.

Even though my eyes were close, one expression I do remember from those days was, "an empty vessel makes a full noise"......................

Originally Posted by Full Noise

So what you’re saying is that you can’t cause a catastrophe with a bus?

Sorry to repeat the expression 'strawman' but it seems to be the modus operandi round here.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 350125GO

Think what they are trying to say is let trains do the bulk long distance work and have main hubs where trucks distrubute from there.

So how hoes that stop congestion in the cities??

[Franco Cozzo]

Another woman was killed today on the Tullamarine freeway in an accident involving a truck, near the car dealerships in Essendon Fields. They closed down that small section of the Tulla and redirected everyone through Wirraway road.

I had to pick up some parts from Ford there today, was interesting seeing the bazillion people driving through, makes me wonder now if those dealerships will get more people through their doors now that lots of people know how to get to them now.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Another woman was killed today on the Tullamarine freeway in an accident involving a truck, near the car dealerships in Essendon Fields. They closed down that small section of the Tulla and redirected everyone through Wirraway road.

I had to pick up some parts from Ford there today, was interesting seeing the bazillion people driving through, makes me wonder now if those dealerships will get more people through their doors now that lots of people know how to get to them now.

She walked across a freeway!!!!

50m from the overpass!!!!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mor...-1226050614440

I'm not saying it's right, but some people really need to start taking responsibility...

[Mechan1k]

Being a pedestrian on a freeway in the first place is illegal ... unfortunate accident that involved a truck driver. I feel sorry for the truck driver in this one.

There needs to be a mass-cleansing of the gene pool.