Anyone heard anything on the Falcon wagon yet?

[AlbertM]

http://goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.n...2576F0002F9FA3

[partsguy]

sorry, should have said 'official dates released to dealers' this morning.

Every article I read last night was very hazey on the official dates...

[DJR-351]

I actually feel a bit emotional about this..... :(

[greens_tuf]

I know alot of people are saying "so what" or buy a "Territory" or a "Mondeo", but the reality is that some people want a "Falcon" + the versatility of a wagon.

If they were just planning on making an XT spec wagon then it is better to die now... but if they were going to make sports wagons I would have taken a XR8 wagon

[Brazen]

Doesnt the BF111 Falcon XT wagon outsell FG Falcon sedan XT 4 to 1, imagine if they had a full range....

[bobthebilda]

Just consider any reduction in Australian car production, a tax saving. At 600 million dollars a year in government subsidies, to produce 200 thousand cars, one less cars means 3000 dollars can go to hospitals or education, instead of Burela's or Devereauxs pockets. Take out 200 Falcon wagons a month, and you have a new school.

[partsguy]

Interesting theory, but 200 less wagons just makes room on the production line for 200 of something else, undoubtably more profitable.

[outback_ute]

Great post Swordsman, as you say the SUV has taken over from the wagon. As usual Goauto has a clearer representation of what Marin Burela said and a better interpretation of the implications. If we were a market the size of the US there might be the case for a new Falcon wagon, but of course this is not the case.

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Finally, if you use a bit of forsight you can ask yourself this question. If Ford pitches a mondeo wagon as a competitor to the VE sportwagon at a competitive (read cheaper) price, with 4pot rego, and frugal diesel and (later this year) 2.0 Ecoboost turbo engine power, which will the fleets buy? The mondeo has a larger load space, and arguably better build/features for the money. If Telstra needs true heavy haulage (say 20% of their fleet) they can just get RWD territories at bargan prices.

The one flaw in this plan is parts and servicing availability with the Mondeo being an imported vehicle. This is the real advantage of the local cars - no 2 month wait on parts (with a few exceptions!).

It is disappointing however that the Falcon based range is shrinking further, which can only threaten its ultimate viability, although in this case with the production complication added by the superceded model wagon there is a gain. I wish they would make a change from the ultra-safe business model and try exporting the Falcon to the US to replace the Mercury Grand Marquis!

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by joolz

What ever he or the media states i stand by my numbers and with the increased capacity without the complexity of the wagon is crap. With the start of the BA the output was 600+ cars per day. If your not selling the current sedans and territories what is the point of increasing the builds by cutting out the complexity of 1 model. This is where Ford has to do better than Holden in the marketing of a fine vehicle.

And you call ther BFIII Falcon a fine car??

[bobthebilda]

Outback, I think its quite a myth that availabilty of parts for australian cars is easier than imported cars. It may be so on a few components that are made here, but generally the majority of parts for the falcon and commodore come in from overseas, and are used by tier one suppliers in assembling their products, which then go to ford or Holden. Last time i looked at things in a commodore, the air con unit come from thailand, the cup holder came from canada, the tyres came in from overseas, even the instruction manual was an import.

[banarcus]

One Ford, here we come.

Next to go, ute.

[russellw]

The question is answered HERE

Regards
Russ

[z80]

Originally Posted by banarcus

One Ford, here we come.

Next to go, ute.

Then V8 engine and quickly followed by all sedans in RWD format.
It's all about the $$$$.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by z80

Then V8 engine and quickly followed by all sedans in RWD format.
It's all about the $$$$.

Why would the V8 engine be going? It is brand new, with Ford Australia spending a considerable amount on development.

Falcon is not going anywhere.

[Carby]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Just consider any reduction in Australian car production, a tax saving. At 600 million dollars a year in government subsidies, to produce 200 thousand cars, one less cars means 3000 dollars can go to hospitals or education, instead of Burela's or Devereauxs pockets. Take out 200 Falcon wagons a month, and you have a new school.

Forget about hospitals they'll be paying the dole (plus other benefits) to hundreds of employees who have just lost a job........................

[FTE217]

I love seeing the prophets justifying the demise of the wagon.

The local manufacturers had been tight a r s e s forever and a day at offering range for the consumer. Unfortunately they didn't see it coming so it has become reaction.
I can go back before many of you young folk here that you once had to pay for a radio aircon via Ford/Holden but the Japs arrived and it was included in the price !
So what happens over the years ? Japs etc can't make a decent rwd station wagon so up comes the Rav4 followed by the CRV etcetc....oh my lets make them bigger and how many options you like.
No brainer what happened to the market share of the local wagons !
Especially Ford !!! what have they offered for the consumer ? sweet FA with a model they have produced for near on 50yrs...but we Ford bean counters want the volume, Fleet is the answer ! all we have to offer is base model rubbish and it helps to keep the factory line going so what does the private buyer do ? go elsewhere bugga Ford wagon base product for my family the Japs etc offer range/comforts (better service) all I need and heck I'll go suv anyway. Ford shot themselves in the foot once again.
Yer yer the Terri has been their best forsight (though reaction) in yonks but thats all they've got ! Escape phhht !
An upspecd rwd wagon with a decent marketing stratergy could have got some return imo far more than investing in the mondeo IMO......

Living in Syd I see Passat wagons ? overpriced to boot, Volvo wagons add in the sportwagon,mazda6,mercs etc etc there is a market, Ford have left the wagon in limbo for years,was it planned ? who knows ?! but they have let the opposition take the segment much like they have in other variants as that same consumer who wanted Ford initially sees the fruit from the other side and takes it never to come back !
Bybye wagon next please.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by Joshua Dowling

Ford's cargo carrier wasn't axed early, it overstayed its welcome

The Ford Falcon wagon may be gone -- its demise in June 2010 announced late yesterday -- but it is too early to draw the conclusion that the Falcon sedan and ute may follow.

Given that Falcon sales are their lowest in the 50-year history of the nameplate and the ute could be replaced by a new, locally developed body-on-frame utility being designed for the entire Ford world, it is understandable that doubts have been raised and questions are being asked. However, the reality is that the Falcon wagon was supposed to come to an end when the Territory softroader was introduced in 2004. Why Ford did not emphasise this during yesterday's announcement is a mystery.

The boss of Ford Australia at the time of the Territory's introduction, Geoff Polites, made no secret of the fate of the wagon.

But unexpected demand from fleet customers such as Telstra prompted Ford to continue building the Falcon wagon. After all, the tooling was already paid for, so what was the harm in knocking out a few wagons at lunchtime?

The production numbers were modest but worthwhile. The wagon was eventually built at a rate of 200 a month, that's 10 a day -- out of 250 or so cars built at Broadmeadows daily.

So the Falcon wagon, introduced in 1998, will have ended up hanging around for 12 years -- six years past its intended used-by date.

What also was not said explicitly yesterday was that it did not make economic sense to re-engineer the Falcon wagon with side and curtain airbags (to bring it in line with contemporary safety standards), and to overhaul the engine to meet new emissions regulations that come into force on July 1 (hence the wagon's June end of production). It would have cost more to make these changes than the profit Ford would have received from each vehicle. Over and out.

As for what all this means for Falcon sedan and ute is another story.

If the imported European Mondeo wagon is a good enough substitute for the Falcon wagon, then a conclusion could be drawn that the Mondeo could also replace the Falcon sedan. Or, dare we say it, a Taurus could replace a Falcon sedan.

Except it's not that simple. For starters, the Mondeo wagon is much dearer than the Falcon wagon.

Forget recommended retail prices for a moment (which indicate there is a narrow price gap). No-one pays RRP any way. Not even retail customers these days. The Falcon wagon was being banged out at a knock-down rate to fleets who accounted for 99 per cent of sales. Ford could limbo under its own pricing bar because the cost of the Falcon wagon had been amortised over a decade. And when you build em, you dictate the price.

It's a different story when you import a car from another factory in the Ford world. Sure, they're one happy family, but several players get to clip the ticket along the way before the Mondeo (or any other imported vehicle for that matter) lands on our shores.

Ford won't be selling Mondeos for Falcon wagon prices, that's for sure.

And so back to what this means for the sedan.

The Mondeo sedan is a world class car. It has more features and better efficiency than a Falcon. It's even won awards locally. But guess what? Australians either don't care or haven't noticed. Mondeo sales are a fraction of the Falcon's. And the Falcon hasn't exactly been bolting out the door for the last couple of years; recording the lowest two years of sales in the 50-year history of the Falcon nameplate.

The majority of Falcons are bought by fleets, so the same rule that applied to wagon applies here. Ignore RRP for a moment, no-one's paying close to that.

As for Ford's top secret T6 body-on-frame ute (the replacement to the Ranger and its twin under the skin, the Mazda BT-50), yes it could replace the Falcon ute. Except we reckon we'll see a similar scenario for the local ute as to the one we've just seen with the wagon.

The ute's tooling has been paid for. Ford will probably keep building it as long as there is enough demand. We will have to wait and see.

With all of this in mind, it is understandable that the media and Ford fans are questioning the viability of local production at Broadmeadows.

Holden's not out of the woods yet either. It has lost or had major cuts in its two big export markets (the US and the Middle East) and is experiencing weak sales locally. But the heat seems to be off Holden for the time being because there seems to hope on its horizon either with the police export program or even the possibility of Commodore returning to the US as a Chevrolet.

Unfortunately Ford is not being forthcoming with its future model plans. Both the Falcon and the Taurus have another six years left before they need replacing. This is ample time for Ford to consider many options.

And who knows? The world may change in a way none of us were expecting in that time. Six years ago, no-one saw the GFC coming either.

My guess is there are people within Ford Australia desperately trying to save the Falcon and local production -- and there are people elsewhere in the Ford world who want to kill it.

But as long as the Federal Government is prepared to offer tax-payer funded assistance to local car makers, the Ford factory -- and the Falcon -- could be around for a long while yet.

http://carpoint.com.au/news/2010/lar...on-story-18790

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by Joshua Dowling

Diesel engine pushed back to join major facelift for Ford's softroader

The axing of the Ford Falcon wagon will prompt a broader range of Territory models when Ford's big softroader undergoes a major facelift early next year.

The Carsales Network understands that Ford plans to continue with a price-leader model that currently has the starting point of Territory set at a promotional RRP of $38,990 drive-away. But Ford will also focus heavily on the richer models in the Territory mix.

Since the minor update to Territory last year, Ford Australia has reversed the mix of cars sold. Previously about 60 per cent of Territorys that Ford sold were of the cheaper models, but now the most affordable variants account for less than 40 per cent of Territory sales.

Furthermore, the Carsales Network has learned, the long overdue 2.7-litre turbo diesel engine (borrowed from former affiliates Jaguar and Land Rover) could have been fitted to the Territory some time this year, but Ford elected to have the diesel engine coincide with an upgrade of the entire Territory line-up that is due in the first half of 2011.

The updated Territory due next year is not an all-new model, but it is more significant than earlier updates on the vehicle. It has been described as a similar change to the step from the AU to the BA Falcon. This means we will likely see that the doors and core structure of Territory are carried over but there will be sheetmetal changes front and rear, as well as new lights and bumpers to give the car a fresher look.

Given the current model Territory shares its headlight internals with the Falcon of the day when it was launched, the updated Territory will likely adopt the Falcon's larger inboard main headlight beam arrangement.

At the same time the new Territory will also get the latest range of engine upgrades that came with the FG Falcon 18 months ago.

What's not yet clear is whether an LPG-powered Territory will finally become available, but such a vehicle would appeal to families and fleets alike because of the low running costs.

Ford Australia spokeswoman Sinead McAlary declined to comment on the future plans of the Ford Territory.

http://carpoint.com.au/news/2010/mpv...ons-role-18791

[bobthebilda]

Carby, Please do the sums. Vehicle manufacturing in Australia has about 8000 people at the big three, and roughly another 20000 at parts suppliers (dont believe the numbers when they include all people in car industry, as sales people, mechanices will still be employed regardless of where cars come from). Now all three companies have generous redundanciy packages, some a redundant employee on average wont go on the dole for a year. If for some strange reason, all (lets say) 30000 people were still on the dole aftera year, the government would be up for 30000 people @ $200 per week = 300 million per year. A saving of $300 million per year. On top of that, they could get rid of the 5% import duty on the 900000 cars we buy. Thus an extra 1000 x 900000 = $900 million, could be pumped into the economy, being spent on other products. Thus creating jobs. Subsidzing a worker on $250 per day, when he is competing against a worker in another country on $2 per day, is just a slow slide to poverty.

[NC_Lane]

I curently have a AU wagon and I guess at some point in the next few years I will be looking at upgrading into a later model. As the pourpose of the car is not going to change (will be a daily crap hauller) I guess I will be after a wagon of somesort..

Considering I have/had many Fords my first point of call will be a Falcon wagon.
Now as the Falcon wagon is not made any more, I am left with the option of either a terri / or a mondeo...

All logic says go a mondeo but there is just this feeling of hesitation.. Sure I would consider it, but Im not at all sure if I will buy one.... I would proberbly go and atleast look at a holden wagon, something I wouldnt have even thought of doing if there was a Falcon wagon..

I know this makes no sense but Im wondering if anyone else actually is in the same boad as to speak,,,

[My poor XF]

The majority of Falcons are bought by fleets, so the same rule that applied to wagon applies here. Ignore RRP for a moment, no-one's paying close to that.

When did that happen? Mr Dowling?

Thats not what we have been hearing here. I was under the impression the majority of falcon sales were to private buyers.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

Lot of people enjoy the power and space of the Falcon for towing.

True, and as a family we have had XP, XW, XE, XF, EL wagons (all bought brand new) before switching to Terry Ghia's. Elderly parents just find the Terry's higher hip point so much easier to enter/exit etc...and the Ghia spec hasn't been in a Falcon wagon since EA.

The probelm is how many people were buying new wagons for towing...because second hand purchases do nothing to Fords new car sales figures.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by My poor XF

When did that happen? Mr Dowling?

Thats not what we have been hearing here. I was under the impression the majority of falcon sales were to private buyers.

Unless he is talking about wagon, most of which were bought by fleets.

[Road_Warrior]

Perhaps if the wagon was still available to private buyers with decent interior options, the sales of it would not have floundered to the point it did and Ford may have been able to justify a new model. But its a paradox - no investment leads to poor sales and public interest, poor sales and public interest leads to no investment.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Perhaps if the wagon was still available to private buyers with decent interior options, the sales of it would not have floundered to the point it did and Ford may have been able to justify a new model. But its a paradox - no investment leads to poor sales and public interest, poor sales and public interest leads to no investment.

Exactly...sort of create your own death warrant. Cost cutting led to no BA Fairmont or FG wagon derivative or major Terry updates, this leads to sales drops which then decreases the overall r&d budget, which then leads to decisions on which products are kept and axed....robbing Peter to pay Paul except they are in the same family. Just goes to show how a decision made 10 years ago has massive effects long after. EG if the AU was a sales success would the slow starvation of funds have occurred and would more money have allowed for better product provision to meet the changing customer buying decisions.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by mr_br_johnstone

So, Ford want me to move on from owning Falcon wagons... The cars I have always owned and want to continue to own...

I will move on... Move on to another manufacturer...

So you were buying brand new Wagons from Ford?

[Franco Cozzo]

Whats the wagon have that a SUV like the Territory doesn't? I'd imagine there would still be decent load space in the Territory.

[S3SR]

ok so a few things that I would consider if I was put in charge

wagon sales are down, would I be right in saying there is no point carrying over a model that is just going to prolong the misery? so major changes are needed? YES

ok so we know that emissions standards are getting tougher, but it is simply a matter of get there or better it or dont make it whatsoever, there is a line, you made it or not.
the I6 was suppose to be carrying over for a little longer, and V8 is getting upgraded

so if we go by the above statement of lets not prolong the misery of a failing and possible money wasting model in the hope somewhere 3 people will buy it..... cull it, get rid of it, after the changes reconsider whether or not it is worth building a new one.

i have only touched engine... shall i continue in more reasons why i would not continue falcon wagon

design... again keeping true to the statement above, we need a longer chassis to the sedan, virtually retool the assembly for new rear end, new front end, near new car design .... so ADR testing is necessary + all the other legalities of building essentially a new car then make it profitable but value for money for mum and dads

what about marketing, there is also going to be a whole catalogue of parts needed from the rear doors back .... they dont just appear out of nowhere when a ford dealer ticks the box and says i just ordered it

i know this for a fact because i manufacturer stuff now as well, run my own business but have to maintain a viable income stream and can not spend too long on new products .... you dont make money building stuff.... only when you sell it

seriously whether or not you read this long winded opinion, think about it, Ford DO NOT just draw the wagon in photoshop say all these manufacturers make me parts and some how some robot puts it together, then your mothers, friends, aunty's dog's personal trainer goes ill buy one of them ....... doesnt happen

ive advertised my XR8 for sale, ive had more people wanting it but dont want to pay for it..... I love your car, but ill give you $10k for it..... hmmmm

anyways good on ford for doing what they did, 10yrs from now, i will still be able to buy a ford... GM will probably end up owing me money before they go under

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Whats the wagon have that a SUV like the Territory doesn't? I'd imagine there would still be decent load space in the Territory.

Although I havent measured it, the Territory looks to have a very much shorter load length and floor area in the rear than the wagon. Even the sedan is longer except very much restricted with height of the cutout behind the rear seat.

[madmelon]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Although I havent measured it, the Territory looks to have a very much shorter load length and floor area in the rear than the wagon. Even the sedan is longer except very much restricted with height of the cutout behind the rear seat.

About 250kg of extra weight, 50mm excess clearance and at least 150mm excess height. Not everyone wants a 4WD ish vehicle.

For the last 30 years my family has bought nothing but Falcon wagons (Bought by grandparents, passed down the line when updating) I guess that ends now.