Melbourne Storm stripped of premierships - Page 5

itchy brother · 23-04-2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

it was also the players who recieved the extra money, to say they are innocent is just plain silly

While its true that there were playeres which were aware of the under the table dealings, there are still many players which acepted lower money to play!
Unfortunately the inocent ones without knowledge of the goings on recieve the same punishment as the guys who took off the books money!

BOSHOG · 23-04-2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

Why?

Do you know something the rest of us don't? Can you categorically state that the players knew that the club was in breach of its salary cap?

You can't, as yet the NRL can't so until then they are innocent. Innocent until proven guilty.

get ya hand off it! you know what your paid and how you recieve the money. and if you think players dont talk about contracts and do the math youre kidding yourself

FFS its been obvious for many years that they were over the cap

uranium_death · 23-04-2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

it was also the players who recieved the extra money, to say they are innocent is just plain silly

Did every player receive extra money, or was it just a select few?

Wally · 23-04-2010, 11:09 AM

I see this as a great opportunity for the Vics to give NSW some stick. The Storm can become the great spoilers, basically picking and choosing who they want field a full team against and who they want to rest their best against. They have it in their power to manipulate the ladder now.

RG · 23-04-2010, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

get ya hand off it! you know what your paid and how you recieve the money. and if you think players dont talk about contracts and do the math youre kidding yourself

FFS its been obvious for many years that they were over the cap

Are you serious?

Player managers take care of all that mate, not the players themselves. It's also apparently quite rare for players to talk amongst themselves about what they're on as it is considered taboo and not the done thing.

No need to get aggressive mate, settle down a bit hey.

BOSHOG · 23-04-2010, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Did every player receive extra money, or was it just a select few?

it doesnt matter, being an NRL fan i see every team they played in the last 4yrs as being cheated out of a fair contest

BOSHOG · 23-04-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

Are you serious?

Player managers take care of all that mate, not the players themselves. It's also apparently quite rare for players to talk amongst themselves about what they're on as it is considered taboo and not the done thing.

No need to get aggressive mate, settle down a bit hey.

im not getting agressive, im stating the obvious, they have been over the cap for a long time and they got caught red handed, they deserve what they got

RG · 23-04-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

im not getting agressive, im stating the obvious, they have been over the cap for a long time and they got caught red handed, they deserve what they got

The CLUB got caught. The CLUB needs to be punished.

Without any evidence of player knowledge the players should be left out of it until such a time that there is evidence to the contrary. This investigation seems to be far from completed, which begs the question why were penalties handed out prior to all information being collected?

BOSHOG · 23-04-2010, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

The CLUB got caught. The CLUB needs to be punished.

Without any evidence of player knowledge the players should be left out of it until such a time that there is evidence to the contrary. This investigation seems to be far from completed, which begs the question why were penalties handed out prior to all information being collected?

remember minor and major premierships are team (CLUB) awards, the players still have their Dally M medals, Clive Churchill medals, test and origin caps etc. the players technically havent been punished and they never will be.

RG · 23-04-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

remember minor and major premierships are team (CLUB) awards, the players still have their Dally M medals, Clive Churchill medals, test and origin caps etc. the players technically havent been punished and they never will be.

Those are all individual awards.

Ask any player past or present, the most important thing is a premiership to them.

BOSHOG · 23-04-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

Those are all individual awards.

Ask any player past or present, the most important thing is a premiership to them.

of course theyre individual awards lol, theyre the only ones a player can win, TEAMS WIN PREMIERSHIPS, not players

ch33z1l · 23-04-2010, 11:24 AM

After the bulldogs were handed down what seemed a harsh penalty at the time, you would think the rest of the NRL teams would be doing the right thing. So in saying that, it's my opinion the punishment that is to be handed down to the Storm is fair and deserved, not only to reflect the action, but to set a precadent for the other clubs, that if you cheat, you will be caught, and the repurcussions will be severe.

Punishing the club is not hurting the game, rather, being unlawful and cheating the regulations is hurting the game.

RG · 23-04-2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

of course theyre individual awards lol, theyre the only ones a player can win, TEAMS WIN PREMIERSHIPS, not players

Yes, the TEAM wins the premiership. The Team is the player group, the club is not.

It is the club that needs to have the book thrown at them, it's not only the fact that they've done it but more so the blatant way that they did it. I mean seriously, two sets of books? FFS.

BOSHOG · 23-04-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

Yes, the TEAM wins the premiership. The Team is the player group, the club is not.

It is the club that needs to have the book thrown at them, it's not only the fact that they've done it but more so the blatant way that they did it. I mean seriously, two sets of books? FFS.

thats exactly what happened, the NRL isnt like the AFL, the team is all that matters, i dont know of any NRL fan that refers to their team as a club.

what do you suggest the NRL does differently?

billo · 23-04-2010, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

Those are all individual awards.

Ask any player past or present, the most important thing is a premiership to them.

yer im of the opinion they the players should get some form of penalty
they have been aware from day 1 of the breaches
i mean they have accepted the overpayments
wat does the NRL do
pretent the players wherent aware?
makes me sick tbh
all the best
bil

RG · 23-04-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

thats exactly what happened, the NRL isnt like the AFL, the team is all that matters, i dont know of any NRL fan that refers to their team as a club.

what do you suggest the NRL does differently?

With the way the AFL is it's basically the club is the business side of the entity, the team is the player group and all that has to do with on field stuff.

As for what I think they should do, I honestly can't say as I just don't know but what has been done just doesn't sit right with me.

RG · 23-04-2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billo

yer im of the opinion they the players should get some form of penalty
they have been aware from day 1 of the breaches
i mean they have accepted the overpayments
wat does the NRL do
pretent the players wherent aware?
makes me sick tbh
all the best
bil

You'd be surprised at how little of their contracts most players would know. That's why they employ player managers.

Is there any investigation into the player managers on this? They must have known something was up.

ch33z1l · 23-04-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billo

yer im of the opinion they the players should get some form of penalty
they have been aware from day 1 of the breaches
i mean they have accepted the overpayments
wat does the NRL do
pretent the players wherent aware?
makes me sick tbh
all the best
bil

With them being stripped of 2 premierships, you would think they would have to give up their premiership medals as well?

BOSHOG · 23-04-2010, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

With the way the AFL is it's basically the club is the business side of the entity, the team is the player group and all that has to do with on field stuff.

As for what I think they should do, I honestly can't say as I just don't know but what has been done just doesn't sit right with me.

thats exactly what i was getting at, we NRL fans dont care about the "club" and honestly we dont care. the "team" cheated so the team should suffer

i feel for the storm fans, and to a degree the honest players. if i played for the storm i dont know if i could be bothered playing the games this year. is it possible for the storm to forfeit? because i wouldnt want to get injured in a pointless game and perhaps hurt my future earnings

BOSHOG · 23-04-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ch33z1l

With them being stripped of 2 premierships, you would think they would have to give up their premiership medals as well?

cant see why not, but now i wonder how many go missing before the league comes to pick them up. i can see it now "mine got stolen" lol

**russellw** · 23-04-2010, 11:44 AM

To the loyal and passionate Storm fans, my sympathy.

Some interesting side notes from this debacle:

1. It says something about the management of the team that in these tough economic times when most clubs in any sporting code are struggling for enough money to pay the bills that they can find this much extra.

2. This is something of a precedent in the sporting world. There have been clubs stripped of Championships before but either at the amateur level or for things like the Italian soccer match fixing scandals of 1926/7 and 2004/05 and Olympic Marseille in 1993. Most salary cap breaches (and they are commonplace enough) have only resulted in fines or loss of points.

3. As noted above, the contract negotiations for most players are done by their managers and "creative" salary packaging has long been a part of most top level professional sport. The history of pro sport has been littered with tax avoidance issues globally but it's a part of what happens when the sums of money get to the level pro sports players are at. Given the actual contracts usually contain confidentiality clauses it is probable that the players as a group were unaware of the salary cap breach.

4. This will cause substantial damage to the sport (and this country) in general. It has already received major global media coverage and the editorial comment has been mostly harsh.

It's a sad day for spolovers.

Cheers
Russ

RG · 23-04-2010, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

thats exactly what i was getting at, we NRL fans dont care about the "club" and honestly we dont care. the "team" cheated so the team should suffer

i feel for the storm fans, and to a degree the honest players. if i played for the storm i dont know if i could be bothered playing the games this year. is it possible for the storm to forfeit? because i wouldnt want to get injured in a pointless game and perhaps hurt my future earnings

Maybe it's time the NRL started doing things the same way as the AFL. The sport has become too big for clubs to just be clubs, they are multi million dollar businesses and need to be run as such.

Makes you wonder what the point of not just kicking them out for the rest of the season though doesn't it. I mean why would they bother trying to win if even if they win it isn't a win?

Kind of upsets the entire competition and also leaves whoever wins the 2010 Premiership with the question of whether they actually were the best.

BOSHOG · 23-04-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

Maybe it's time the NRL started doing things the same way as the AFL. The sport has become too big for clubs to just be clubs, they are multi million dollar businesses and need to be run as such.

Makes you wonder what the point of not just kicking them out for the rest of the season though doesn't it. I mean why would they bother trying to win if even if they win it isn't a win?

Kind of upsets the entire competition and also leaves whoever wins the 2010 Premiership with the question of whether they actually were the best.

i agree with you about everything, and i think the Melbourne Storm will look at legal avenues to fight the punishment or get out of playing the games.

remember when players get injured they have to put someone else into first grade which means more money counting against the cap, but with no chance of winning the game. so i dont see a point in playing the games

EDIT; the business model we should all be following is the NFL, all football related revenue is shared EVENLY BETWEEN THE TEAMS, all contracts are public etc. there is little or no team related scandal in NFL, as we know the players can sometimes have off fieild issues but never the team.

TomXr6 · 23-04-2010, 11:54 AM

Probably a silly question and i don't know if anyone else has raised this, but could there be any repercussions for those who placed bets on storm for the wooden spoon?

exdubbleya · 23-04-2010, 11:57 AM

I wonder how many players got tattoo's of their premiership wins? You can take back a trophy, ring, money etc - little harder with ink.

**DJR-351** · 23-04-2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Did every player receive extra money, or was it just a select few?

Still been investigated I guess, but if it's proved to be a select few you can bet the "Team" spirit will be flushed down the toilet....

I for one do not believe for a moment that the players involved new nothing of the extra $$$ sent there way, the whole idea of breaching the salary cap in the first place is to buy/keep players at the club, to say the players knew nothing is a tad naive I think....

itchy brother · 23-04-2010, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xgs

Probably a silly question and i don't know if anyone else has raised this, but could there be any repercussions for those who placed bets on storm for the wooden spoon?

From what i read in the paper this morning, the tab will be honouring the wagers that were in before they suspended betting!

Good on the guys who got some of their own back from the tab! :monkes:
Amazing that the tab doesnt have better intel with the amount of money they have in the pot!!!

itchy brother · 23-04-2010, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exdubbleya

I wonder how many players got tattoo's of their premiership wins? You can take back a trophy, ring, money etc - little harder with ink.

After the plastic surgens anounced a downturn in turnover in the recent years, they will be happy for the extra buisness!!!!

:

Wow, 20 members viewing this thread at the same time!
Is this some kind of record???

GT450 · 23-04-2010, 12:09 PM

Nothing more our northern brothers would like than to see us fold or kicked out of the league is there? Well i hope Storm band together and go on to morally win this years minor premiership. Until it has been proven any players ultimately knew or conspired to defraud the system then you should keep your nasty comments confined to the people we do know were involved in the coverup.
I suspect there may be a few other teams out there taking stock as Storm are not likely to be Robinson Crusoe where this is concerned.
Cheers
GT450

GT0132 · 23-04-2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

The CLUB got caught. The CLUB needs to be punished.

Without any evidence of player knowledge the players should be left out of it until such a time that there is evidence to the contrary. This investigation seems to be far from completed, which begs the question why were penalties handed out prior to all information being collected?

I'ts possible that a few of the major sponsors could have been involved as well - giving non cash benefits to playesr under the table