Do You Trust The Government?

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by crusher

Very good points.

I was away on the weekend with a heap of blokes and a few ex service men. One bloke has been around guns and in the air force for years and knows his stuff. He was saying that the gun is pretty much impossible to accidentaly set off. There would have been silly buggers goin on or he did it on purpose.

Very possible that something else happened. They were muckin around, he did it on purpose, someone really didnt like him, or he was killed doing something very hush hush that they cant tell people about.

I dont trust the govt. Or Dr Nelson. First he was head of Education and whatnot and now hes head of military. With no military experience. How can you run something you know fuck all about?

I just feel for the family and friends. As I know people in the force and one of my mates is gonna head off soon to start his career in the army. If something happened id sure as hell like to know what really happened. Unless he was SAS. Then id live with not knowing what he was doing or where he was. Thats how it goes.

And now "Dr Nelson" is saying that he was by himself when he was killed. Is this the fourth time nelson has changed his story?? What a moron.

And how did you get the F word past the sensors?? Well done!.

[nobbystang]

Originally Posted by ltd

It would seem from the comments that the present gov doesn't have any credibility, but similarly it also seems from the comments that ignorance is indeed proving blissful to some. Whilst I have no doubts as to peoples recollections of alleged cover ups and scandal, I wonder how many actually remember the temultuous early 90's with the recession, the blown budgets, high interest rates, high unemployment, jobs for the boys, the minority appeasement strategies and the LAW tax cuts we were all supposed to get. Or the fact that other countries weren't interested in trading with us, as the morons in power thought we didn't need trading partners or allies. And the deregulation of the airline industry was such a great move wasn't it. Oh thats right, we had rolling strikes that required the air force to transport passengers in c130 hercules aircraft. But lets not forget selling the commonwealth bank, or Qantas, or the inherent nepotism from ministers and theuir families. Now, Keating was an absolute champion who deserved the millions he had siphoned away for his own personal agenda.

Like the Libs you need to stop living in the past and look at the present. Australia has the highest interest rates and taxes in the western world at the moment and are still winning elections by scaremongering about Labours recession we had to have. We are being steered right back down that path again, and would you believe, economists are predicting up to 0.5% rate rise next time the Reserve Bank board meets. When Labour lost the election they were planning to have a budget in the black within a few years. Liberal could only achieve this by selling off Telstra. Teh reason we struggles with trading partners was purely because of disputes over tarrifs, not that we are self sufficient. Is easy to remember what you want though i guess.

[svo347]

Im sorry what was the question?.... I cant recall that being asked....

[nobbystang]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

And now "Dr Nelson" is saying that he was by himself when he was killed. Is this the fourth time nelson has changed his story?? What a moron.

When will pollies learn not to open there mouth just cause there's a camera in their face. You think they'd be intelligent enough to wait until all facts had been worked out before saying anything

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by nobbystang

When will pollies learn not to open there mouth just cause there's a camera in their face. You think they'd be intelligent enough to wait until all facts had been worked out before saying anything

This is a gov that does not like to deal with "facts". Unless they make them up!!

[MethodX]

Who are we to ask questions though?
After all the right are born to rule.

[MO]

Well lets look at an economic fact Lil johnny was a treasurer....Smelly pig Keating was a treasurer....both became PMs........and their economic perspectives are very similar....Keating did not have a clue as to where asia was when he was flying over it so this misconception about him being pro asian is a misnomer.

Lil johnny has a past not to be revered when he was treasurer....a huge deficit.....piggy keating the same.

Now as most would know I am a stuanch unionist and lean very heavily to the left....I am not a cringing socialist nor a rabid communist.

I firmly believe that the socialist doctrine of ..."from each according to his ability and to each according to his needs..."is the way to go, if for some reason you cannot contribute to this because of a disability then the state will provide....state reads ppl....ppl reads elected reps by the ppl.

Think about this and this is way older than communism/socialism......."Sonatus Populace Qou Romanus"
(hope I got that right)

I shall now leave you to translate!!!!!!

[Citric GT]

Originally Posted by ltd

After all, wasn't Gough Whitlam the man who tried to do a shady 3.5 billion dollar deal with an Arab shiek that led to his ultimate removal as prime minister?


Vote Labor and you end up with career politicians, Union stalwarts, train drivers (michael costa NSW treasurer)

I don't mean to be anal, but it was actually $4billion!

Costa actually never made the grade of driver. Couldn't get past being a trainee!

[mik]

no i wouldnt trust the government, you will never get a straight answer out of them, and ,....... they will never take responsability for there actions, also they can mislead the public and not be held accountable.

[Fairlane]

Im not going to get into the political party angle of this with the left/right socialist, conservative, neo-liberal divide because i could fill a whole thread with it. But the thread results dont suprise me on bit, its really quite sad that in our free (yes it is still) western liberal democracy that so few people have faith in the system. Whether its the fault of government the beauracracy or the general apathy people these days i dont think anyone will ever know.

[djjase]

Speaking english and been able to write in english should be standard. But no wonder all the Japanese love the Gold Coast.... Everything is written in their lanuage anyway. The Japanese didn't get half of Aust from ww2 but they sure do own most of it now. I dont have a problem with immigration. My question is though when we go to war against a Country lets say Greece, what will all the Greek people in Aust do ? will they go off and fight against their country ? i think not. God only help us when World war 3 comes..... You want to come to Aust, leave your past behind and accept our values and our way of life

[djjase]

Sorry - off topic - I dont trust any Govt. They all lie to us, they promise us things only not to deliver them. All they care about is themselves. Give themselves big pay rises and supperanuation pay outs. They dont have to worry about petrol increase, hell we are all paying for them to ride around in limo's. They dont have to worry about anything, the good old tax payer pays for everything. Come on who said we dont have any class's in Aust. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the middle man gets no where.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

I don't mean to be anal, but it was actually $4billion!

Costa actually never made the grade of driver. Couldn't get past being a trainee!

Quite right.

So Cost-Ya's formal qualifications involve blowing a whistle and saying; "stand clear, doors closing". That warms the heart knowing that he has his hands on the purse strings of the state.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by ltd

Quite right.

So Cost-Ya's formal qualifications involve blowing a whistle and saying; "stand clear, doors closing". That warms the heart knowing that he has his hands on the purse strings of the state.

And ya willy in ya right hand.... you will understand.

[ltd]

Seriously outback, you have a problem. Are your parents siblings?
Throughout all of your ramblings I have changed my opinion on abortion, I'm now in favour of it in cases of incest. I have given you some latitude however I'm now curious as to whether you have wondered what life would be like for you if had enough oxygen at birth. You're not interested in debate, you'd prefer to trade insults and have given up in some peurile fanciful quest to have all agree with your dimented opinion.

Your latest quip on "ya willy", I could eat alphabet soup and better insults than that rubbish you just came out with. I am guessing you're from the outback, and I have been told you were the inspiration for the rolf harris song; "tie me kangaroo down sport" - Not that i'm insuating you're involved in beastiality but, actually, I can't find a way to finish that sentence. See the problem is I could try to insult you, but you're not bright enough to notice. What a quandry. Oh well, I suppose your insults on my career in aviation make you feel better for throwing paper planes around the back of the classroom at school, instead of paying attention and actually amounting to more than just a statistic.

[ltd]

Actually outback, I have a joke for you.

How many of you does it take to change a light bulb?

None, you'll just sit in the dark and blame John Howard

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by ltd

Yes because afterall, these people were genuine asylum seekers weren't they.

The people who drag this lame claim out every time there is allegedly scandal in the air really need to get a reality check. I suppose subscribing to the opinions of some of the SMH editorials is akin to contracting a viral form of ignorance, but sheesh, get over it.

They did throw their children into the water, as the boat was sinking. Why was it sinking? Because the asylum seekers scuttled it. This is after it allegedly broke down, and the Australian Navy repaired it. Then the asylum seekers destroyed the engine again amidst chants of "take us to Australia". The navy then tried to tow the boat back out to International waters and they scuttled it to make it sink. Video evidence that has been used throughout the media has even got a number of them insisting on being brought to Australia.
They were not genuine asylum seekers, they were economic refugees. They past through no less than 4 nations that would have given them asylum especially Indonesia (an Islamic nation more suitable to their beliefs), yet chose to pay people smugglers to set sail to Australia in an undersized boat. Most people of sound rationale would realise that something wasn't quite right regarding the circumstances leading up to this event yet are the first to blame the government, and some ill conceived notion of scandal..

The thread is asking, do you trust the government? The government were shown to have lied; http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committ...report/c01.htm
Nothing to do with asylum seekers, where they come from or how they came to be there.
The government clearly knew statements they made were false and waited(until long after the election), to admit they lied.
The means do not justify the ends.

Originally Posted by ltd

As for AWB, who runs the public company? Not the government. If this were any other country it would be a non issue, as all companies that were doing business with Iraq at the time understood that there was no other way to do business with the despotic dictator saddam. The chairman of the AWB at the time; a Mr Trevor Flugey was appointed to the AWB in 1994 by the then Keating Government. When the liberals tried to get rid of him in 2001, Labor went ballistic claiming that he was the man to get the deals done and there was no reason to sack him. So they left him there..

In 1994 the AWB was under government control. It was privatised in 1999 by the Howard government. Nothing either side of politics could do about the appointment of Mr Flugge in 2001, as you point out it was a public company.
Had it not been privatised the government would have even less credibility, although that's a little hard to imagine, claiming they knew nothing about kick backs.

And the claim that kickbacks are business as usual is offensive. "Other countries where doing it?!" Is no defence, and no one paid anywhere near the amount the AWB "arranged".
No money came from Australian farmers to pay off anyone in Irqu. The AWB arranged a scam, invoicing the UN money for oil program. So Saddam got oil money, spent it on constructing palaces and rearming himself, while his people died for lack of basic medical supplies, food and water.

Our government was either complicit or incompetent, hard to trust them either way.
The means do not justify the ends.

Originally Posted by ltd

IR changes, well the sky didn't fall in as was predicted did it. .

I found a piece in the backyard today.

Originally Posted by ltd

The fact remains that the majority of Australians, not the elitist, banal, self serving, guilt ridden socialist leftie loonies, are happy with the fact that we are not in recession, are not having an open door policy to immigration, are able to afford more than we did 10 years ago and are able to reverse some of the utter failures of social experiments under the current governments rule.

Only at a Federal level, and Australian voters don't elect popular oppositions they kick out unpopular, untruthful governments.

Originally Posted by ltd

Whilst many portfolios are suffering, check no further than your state government, whose job it is to manage said portfolios. And while your at it check the revenues of the states, and the proportion that they now spend on public service salaries as opposed to 10 years ago. Actually, check the size of the beauraucracies within the states, and how they've grown. (In NSW they have tripled under labor, and the joint is now broke even though they are getting over three times as much in total revenues)..

I'd do away with State governments if I was King. Just Federal and larger regional governments in Kingdom Work Horse.

Originally Posted by ltd

Finally, a reason to have some trust in this government; well, look at the alternative offered - Mark Latham. Wow he was a visionary with his evergreening (highlighting a problem that didn't exist and promising to fix it) ways wasn't he. And now we've got Collins Class Kim. Fed Labor sure is the team for 07.

Can't stand "personality politics". But I don't mind a little prod the neo-lib :

[Dodge]

well u can say what u want here , i dont see anyone hitting the gov about any real issues, people power use to work, i think we a a lazy nation that takes what is given. im glad petrol prices are up because the banks were going to up the interist rate but have been told to hold back.

[ltd]

Workhorse that doesn't prove anything. There is alot of speculation and supposition that Howard knew in that link, but to your credit it does go to show that Peter Reith knew. But wasn't he dragged over the coals for that one and is now not an MP anymore?

I do have a question though, why were the children and adults in the water?

[ltd]

Workhorse I should add that you present a well researched arguement. I wouldn't say I trust them implicitly but I do trust them more than the states.

And that piece of the sky you found in your backyard was actually my right wing tip.

[Sourbastard]

OK guys, thats enough debating the colour of the sky for one day.

Puppies are cute.
Grass is green.
Sourbastard is evil.
Politicians Lie.
These are lifes certainties.

One of the quotes from V for Vendetta summed it up perfectly for me.

"People should not be afraid of their government, the government should be afraid of its people"