Will the Holden brand survive?

[jpd80]

It was all over once the Holden fans stopped believing in GM
they turned their backs on Holden and took the extended family
sales with them.

I wonder if Ford felt the branch crack beneath them today......

[Itsme]

Wow did not think this really would ever happened but at least I will cherish the Holden memorabilia I have and the great memories of all the Holden's, Torana's & Commodores I've owned and driven over the years.

[Vormund]

Funny how other car makers can do both RHD and LHD.

With electric cars on the horizon as well, designing cars for both will be easier.

[K.P.]

As a direct Holden descendant I just want to express how shocked and dismayed I am. Hundreds of jobs lost, I'm still in mild shock. Yes I prefer Fords, but why, General Motors, why?

The scuttlebutt was that when Joe Hockey and Abbott dared Australian car manufacturers to leave that the Chinese were demanding an end to Australian car manufacture so they could move in or no free-trade agreement with China. Who wants a bloody Great Wall?

Once again, my deepest apologies to the motoring community. It was a US based decision, my ancestor (who started the automotive division of the Holden Coach Company and yes a Holden himself) was before GM bought Holden in the 1930's. We had a circus too, eastern seaboard only mainly Vic but into NSW and Tasmania, which was wound up in the 1990s.

[Romulus]

Can Government Motors in the US kindly return the billions in subsidies pilfered from the Australian taxpayer through Gillard/Rudd on your way out the door? GM in Detroit must be laughing all the way to the bank, aided and abetted by our illustrious leaders.

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Can Government Motors in the US kindly return the billions in subsidies pilfered from the Australian taxpayer through Gillard/Rudd on your way out the door? GM in Detroit must be laughing all the way to the bank, aided and abetted by our illustrious leaders.

As a matter of interest, do you find it interesting that Tesla is currently opening its new manufacturing plant in Germany while VAG is opening its new electric manufacturing plant in the USA?

Surely its obvious how this industry works...........its just a matter of how much you want to pay for the privilege of a manufacturing plant.....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Can Government Motors in the US kindly return the billions in subsidies pilfered from the Australian taxpayer through Gillard/Rudd on your way out the door? GM in Detroit must be laughing all the way to the bank, aided and abetted by our illustrious leaders.

It made sense to support a local manufacturing industry while one existed,
ScoMoFo put an end to it when he called GM’s bluff
that turned out to not be a bluff, now we’re in the
economic “doldrums” but that’s fine, the govt needs
all the money it can get to help us recover from
the bush fires.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It made sense to support a local manufacturing industry while one existed,
ScoMoFo put an end to it when he called GM’s bluff
that turned out to not be a bluff, now we’re in the
economic “doldrums” but that’s fine, the govt needs
all the money it can get to help us recover from
the bush fires.

while everyone likes to point fingers and find someone to blame, the reality of the situation often gets forgotten.

Is there another island, with the population size of australia, with an automotive manufacturing industry?

once globalisation started a couple of decades ago, it was going to become increasingly difficult to maintain an industry in this country even with support from within. Being surrounded by water has logistical challenges that other manufacturing countries, even the smaller ones, just don't have. Not to mention the population sizes are considerably larger in other manufacturing countries so demand is higher.

The reality is, the manufacturing industry in australia probably lasted about 10years longer than it should have.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by prydey

while everyone likes to point fingers and find someone to blame, the reality of the situation often gets forgotten.

Is there another island, with the population size of australia, with an automotive manufacturing industry?

once globalisation started a couple of decades ago, it was going to become increasingly difficult to maintain an industry in this country even with support from within. Being surrounded by water has logistical challenges that other manufacturing countries, even the smaller ones, just don't have. Not to mention the population sizes are considerably larger in other manufacturing countries so demand is higher.

The reality is, the manufacturing industry in australia probably lasted about 10years longer than it should have.

But here's the thing: globalisation has peaked and is in retreat. The peak moment was probably the Trump tariffs on China. Currently, Chinese output has ground to a halt and free travel is looking increasingly sketchy. Capital, then manufacturing is being either relocated or moved back to the US. The UK declared its auto industry worth protecting in 2010, and will keep it as it expands into defence and space. Those countries enjoying free access of globalisation are getting hit with tariffs - and tweets revealing how naughty they have been. The wind has shifted and a smart approach would be to bet the other way with electric coming on fast, providing a foot in the door at the entry level.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

But here's the thing: globalisation has peaked and is in retreat. The peak moment was probably the Trump tariffs on China. Currently, Chinese output has ground to a halt and free travel is looking increasingly sketchy. Capital, then manufacturing is being either relocated or moved back to the US. The UK declared its auto industry worth protecting in 2010, and will keep it as it expands into defence and space. Those countries enjoying free access of globalisation are getting hit with tariffs - and tweets revealing how naughty they have been. The wind has shifted and a smart approach would be to bet the other way with electric coming on fast, providing a foot in the door at the entry level.

I dont often but for the most part I agree, globalisation has not been the savour whatsoever. Quite the opposite.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

But here's the thing: globalisation has peaked and is in retreat. The peak moment was probably the Trump tariffs on China. Currently, Chinese output has ground to a halt and free travel is looking increasingly sketchy. Capital, then manufacturing is being either relocated or moved back to the US. The UK declared its auto industry worth protecting in 2010, and will keep it as it expands into defence and space. Those countries enjoying free access of globalisation are getting hit with tariffs - and tweets revealing how naughty they have been. The wind has shifted and a smart approach would be to bet the other way with electric coming on fast, providing a foot in the door at the entry level.

The difference is, Australia isn't shutting down it's auto industry. It never really had one. Nothing Australia does can stop an offshore brand pulling out if that's what it wants to do. We are unique in that we are an island. Like I said earlier, what other countries like us have their own auto manufacturing?

[stock1991]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

The UK declared its auto industry worth protecting in 2010, and will keep it as it expands into defence and space. Those countries enjoying free access of globalisation are getting hit with tariffs - and tweets revealing how naughty they have been. The wind has shifted and a smart approach would be to bet the other way with electric coming on fast, providing a foot in the door at the entry level.

I wonder if things will go full circle and we start importing British cars, there is that opportunity for them at least

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by prydey

while everyone likes to point fingers and find someone to blame, the reality of the situation often gets forgotten.

Is there another island, with the population size of australia, with an automotive manufacturing industry?

once globalisation started a couple of decades ago, it was going to become increasingly difficult to maintain an industry in this country even with support from within. Being surrounded by water has logistical challenges that other manufacturing countries, even the smaller ones, just don't have. Not to mention the population sizes are considerably larger in other manufacturing countries so demand is higher.

The reality is, the manufacturing industry in australia probably lasted about 10years longer than it should have.

Fact is that Australia never could of had a car industry like it did even before 1948, if Australia did not have Tariffs and that's a fact.
The Tariffs propped up our industry's take them away and the fact is that they would die, be it from 1949 on, it would of died in fact.

The main thing that hammers Australia and the USA is the currency value of Asia is so low that we can not compete with that or their lack of regulations as to workers entitlements and all.

As such we need tariffs or you are a dead duck in the water, Trump knows this and has chosen for the USA to swim and the Left and far right really wealthy people want the Nation to sink and die, so the government can walk all over the people with their love of the dictatorship Marxism Socialist so they can exploit you. the extreme rich are all about exploitation and so are the far left as they want only to dominate over all like the Cretins that they truly are.

If that moron Obama never just went and printed money like a total fool to just make himself look good in the eyes of the majority of fools, we could of exported the VE-F Commodore to the USA ect as that's why they designed the bloody car so big. so when USA was printing money this increased our dollar in fact. if our dollar was low as it is now we could of exported well as Holden were predicting to sell 50% of Commodores to the USA, as that was the game plan for the VE.

[sr71]

Will the GM & Chevrolet brands survive? That's the next question
Profit is profit, however small a percentage RHD was making.

Porsche timed it well, reintroducing the 6 cyl into the 718. GTS model though, with a detuned version out of GT4/Spyder.
Factory RHD Corvette would have been great. Apparently Chevrolet are losing money on 2020 C8 Corvettes, selling at US$60k. Punters over there are hanging out for the Wide body Z06/Race version. Maybe they should commit to the Stingray, before the whole C8 program is shut down.

Gotta feel for the loyal Holden fans/owners right now. Resale values will surley take a dive, as a percentage of potential buyers decide against buying late models, still with warranty. Or even concern about capable mechanics.

[Crazy Dazz]

I must admit that I am a little surprised by this.
It just goes to show how momentously inept their management has been, that the Holden brand, once the most Iconic in Australia, is worth nothing.

What I didn't realise until recently, was that in selling Opel, they also sold Vauxhall, so SE Asia and Australia were their last RHD Markets. I don't know what they sold their products as in Asia? GM I guess? I never saw that many.

So I guess once they decided to bail on RHD that was the end for Australia.

I wonder if somebody will buy the brand? Try to make some money selling rebadged Gheelys or somesuch?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I must admit that I am a little surprised by this.
It just goes to show how momentously inept their management has been, that the Holden brand, once the most Iconic in Australia, is worth nothing.

Why?

Without a local manufacturing division building Australia's own car, its just a name, it has no soul and its identity was taken from it in 2017.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Why?

Without a local manufacturing division building Australia's own car, its just a name, it has no soul and its identity was taken from it in 2017.

Sounds like what the Chinese are doing with MG.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Sounds like what the Chinese are doing with MG.

They sell on price point, those 3's are reasonable for $15kda and a small SUV for $22k will get attention.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I must admit that I am a little surprised by this.
It just goes to show how momentously inept their management has been, that the Holden brand, once the most Iconic in Australia, is worth nothing.

What I didn't realise until recently, was that in selling Opel, they also sold Vauxhall, so SE Asia and Australia were their last RHD Markets. I don't know what they sold their products as in Asia? GM I guess? I never saw that many.

So I guess once they decided to bail on RHD that was the end for Australia.

I wonder if somebody will buy the brand? Try to make some money selling rebadged Gheelys or somesuch?

Greatwall have Bought GM's RHD factories in India & Thailand.... It would make sense for them to Tie up the Holden Dealer network for their Aussie Distribution... I would Think.

[Warrenk]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Greatwall have Bought GM's RHD factories in India & Thailand.... It would make sense for them to Tie up the Holden Dealer network for their Aussie Distribution... I would Think.

Have a read of this link about GWM and their plans
https://www.caradvice.com.au/827648/...re-great-wall/

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Warrenk

Have a read of this link about GWM and their plans
https://www.caradvice.com.au/827648/...re-great-wall/

Yeah but sales were never really limited by supply, GWM needs more than that to increase sales.

[Bossxr8]

Writing was on the wall when they pulled out of Europe. With very few RHD markets to sell to, especially after they bailed on South Africa and India, this decision was inevitable in hindsight.

They could never justify the costs of making certain models in RHD to sell only in Thailand, Australia and NZ. The sales failures of Acadia and Equinox made certain of that. GM spent millions making RHD versions that sold poorly here. Would have made their decision to not do any more RHD models pretty easy.

Luckily Ford still sells in all the major RHD markets.

[Mesa]

With Holden going, how long before Wheels and Motor magazine follow??

[Ford17]

Cross-post to the similar thread in the Pits, GM may retain a niche presence in Australia once Holden is done and dusted, under the name of "General Motors Specialty Vehicles (GMSV)".

It sounds like RHD conversions to factory spec by HSV, similar to what they're already doing, but with more of a product range:
https://www.caradvice.com.au/827737/...-v8-supercars/

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Ford17

Cross-post to the similar thread in the Pits, GM may retain a niche presence in Australia once Holden is done and dusted, under the name of "General Motors Specialty Vehicles (GMSV)".

It sounds like RHD conversions to factory spec by HSV, similar to what they're already doing, but with more of a product range:
https://www.caradvice.com.au/827737/...-v8-supercars/

Journalistic license?

There are no announcements, wishful thinking I’m sorry from journo’s

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Journalistic license?

There are no announcements, wishful thinking I’m sorry from journo’s

Possibly; but then again it only involves ramping up the existing HSV operation, and adding a few more variants to the range.

And all put in place once the now-tarnished name of Holden has disappeared.

HSV or GMSV will essentially become a later version of what Mr Holden was back in the 1930's.

[jpd80]

By year's end, Toyota, Hyundai and Kia will probably swallow Holden''s sales and then some.
I don't see any other brands making any headway compared to those three.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

and then some.

Yesss indeed..

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by jpd80

By year's end, Toyota, Hyundai and Kia will probably swallow Holden''s sales and then some.
I don't see any other brands making any headway compared to those three.

I wonder if we will see a sudden rise in sales as Holden customers race to grab the last of them, or will we see the opposite, with vehicles not moving.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

I wonder if we will see a sudden rise in sales as Holden customers race to grab the last of them, or will we see the opposite, with vehicles not moving.

a renewed interest in real Holdens, maybe carry Aussie Fords along too?
You don't have to go too far to find unconditional love.