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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#61 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ipswich, Qld
Posts: 1,354
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Quote:
The thing is, if you have one person claiming ADR, everyone's going to claim ADR, even when they were actually speeding, and thus, once again, we accept people's complete disregard for the law, so stuff it, no more one rule for him and one rule for another - now they're putting us all in the one basket - and to be brutally honest, the only people you can thank for that, is the tools that decide they are above the law in the first place. Natural selection as you call it, seems to take innocent victims in its' path, or is that just bad luck?
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----------------------------------------------------- 2012 Focus ST Tangerine Scream Continually having a battle of wits with unarmed opponents. Sez ![]() Photo's by Sez |
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#62 | |||
Petro-sexual
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,527
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Quote:
Going by your logic, anyone that owns an an older car should go an have it calibrated so that it meets the current emission ADR's. Let's look at another hypothetical example, obvioulsy my 130km/h one wasnt good enough for you. I have my cruise set at 98km/h (shown on my speedo) but I am actually travelling at 106km/h. Now Monash uni tell us that every 5km/h over doubles the chance of an accident. I am completely oblivious to the fact I am actually speeding and drive past a mobile speed camera. No flash occurs but I am actually having a fine processed in my name. Now I still have no idea this has happened and I am still travelling along at a crash-chance-doubling 105km/h, even though my speedo says 98km/h. Now why wouldnt they want to inform me that I am actually endangering myself and my family, by driving at 5km/h over the speed limit? Honestly, I am at a complete loss as to how the Vic gov is still able to have this 3km/h tolerance when it basically goes against a federal standard. Newer cars I understand, because the updated ADR states that the speedo must be within 10%, but must NOT read under its actual speed. My guess is this is why we have so many rolling road blocks of people doing 95km/h in the right lane on the freeway. |
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#63 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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Quote:
How is there not a mass media outcry over this? I will stand by my opinion that this obsession with speed enforcement is killing people. Forcing people to drive way below their capabilities causes people to zone out, have accidents, not pay attention and crash. Instead legislating against human behaivour why dont they account for it? Perhaps they should realise that people are more dangerous when they are trundling along not paying attention to the road, staring at the speedo. What I dont undertand is that people who defend the speed enforcement do not ever acknowledge the rising road toll, it seems their standard response is 'if you dont speed, you wont get caught' .....sigh, its almost as if the road toll dosnt matter, just do what the government says! |
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#64 | ||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
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it's not about the money, just ask maquarie bank..
their interested in our safety..
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I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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#65 | ||||
Force Fed Fords
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Enroute
Posts: 4,050
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Quote:
Sezzy, you have missed the point completely. It could be you that thinks you're doing the speed limit when in fact, you are over and going to be fined. Get it? Arguing for the sake of it makes you out to be a troll and nothing more. Face it, you are in the minority here and your self proclaimations of perfection managing your speed are both peurile and dumb. If you love the nanny state directives and hate anything that actually goes the speed limit then maybe you would feel more at home at http://www.my_camry_gives_me_a_chubby.com.au
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If brains were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to power an ants go-cart a half a lap around a Cheerio - Ron Shirley Quote:
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#66 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ipswich, Qld
Posts: 1,354
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Quote:
Drive a 4x4 and put larger wheels on it - the recommendation is that you get your speedo recalibrated to take into consideration the change in dynamics of your vehicle, why should it be any different for a sedan? Perhaps you should read the following, so it's very clear in everyone's mind, what could be deemed an 'excusable offence' http://www.trafficlaw.com.au/speedos.html It's actually quite interesting, and highlights that 'ignorance' is not a valid excuse. There is some thought that s.109 of the constitution will cover you in the case of a differing between state and federal laws: '109. When a law of a State is inconsistent with a law of the Commonwealth, the latter shall prevail, and the former shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be invalid. ' BUT - the ADR isn't a commonwealth law, and therefore not valid grounds for any kind of dispute to s.109 (no legal inconsistency at all). As per the discussion on ADR (http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...ign/index.aspx) 'The First Edition ADRs were distributed for discussion purposes. However, they were not adopted as a legally binding set of standards under either national or state/territory law.' Little bit of food for thought...
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----------------------------------------------------- 2012 Focus ST Tangerine Scream Continually having a battle of wits with unarmed opponents. Sez ![]() Photo's by Sez |
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#67 | ||||
Force Fed Fords
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Enroute
Posts: 4,050
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Quote:
Look how many cases have been successfully argued and won on this basis. In fact, Have a look at Dennis Mirallis and his track record of setting precedent in this and other similar matters.
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If brains were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to power an ants go-cart a half a lap around a Cheerio - Ron Shirley Quote:
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#68 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ipswich, Qld
Posts: 1,354
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Quote:
![]() There are quite a few instances whereby this man has simply said that if you have a clean driving record of 10+ years, you can also ask for leniency. There are several stipulations to Mr. Miralis' work - and a series of non-exemption issues...
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----------------------------------------------------- 2012 Focus ST Tangerine Scream Continually having a battle of wits with unarmed opponents. Sez ![]() Photo's by Sez |
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#69 | ||
Petro-sexual
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,527
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Do you think those speed checks (which last time I went through one wasnt working) would hold any weight in court? They are in no way an accurate speed measurement. It would be like using a nightclub breathalyser to decide whether you're ok to drive.
Have you got a link or info regarding ADR's not being Commonwealth Law? Second edition ADR's came out in 1963, Third edition were active from 1988. The latest update to the third edition was in 2005. I imagine this is when the speedometer accuracy tolerance was changed from +-10% to +10% only. Among other things of course. (like updated vehicle safety standards) |
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#70 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ipswich, Qld
Posts: 1,354
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Quote:
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...dr_online.aspx and here is the actual third edition ADR summary for passenger vehicles. http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...March_2010.pdf
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----------------------------------------------------- 2012 Focus ST Tangerine Scream Continually having a battle of wits with unarmed opponents. Sez ![]() Photo's by Sez |
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#71 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ipswich, Qld
Posts: 1,354
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In addition to that - here is the commonwealth ruling on it.
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/0/3E2C9248B201A54FCA25716700806A2F/$file/ADR+18-03+%5BFINAL+FRLI%5D.pdf In reading this, I couldn't actually find any indication of plus or minus 10%... Section 5.3 on page 13 is interesting though, as it only seems to suggest 4km, not 10%.
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----------------------------------------------------- 2012 Focus ST Tangerine Scream Continually having a battle of wits with unarmed opponents. Sez ![]() Photo's by Sez |
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#72 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
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Daniel |
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#73 | ||||||
Petro-sexual
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,527
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Quote:
The +10% is in ADR 18/01 and 18/02 which applies to vehicles made after 1/1/93 and 1/7/95 Respectively. Quote:
Cars made after 1/7/2006 must meet this new standard Quote:
0.1*40 + 4 = 8km/h (or 20%) 0.1*80 + 4 = 12km/h (or 15%) 0.1*120 + 4 = 16km/h (or 13.3%) And for those of you with a car made after 1/7/1988 Quote:
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#74 | ||
Cruising...
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Perth
Posts: 3,819
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Ladies and Gents!
Introducing the only get-rich-quick scheme that works in the entire world! Invest in your own Terrisafecam or Terrisafecam co. today! Or become a politition...by the looks of it, you wont need much at all to get in..
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FBT '98 BA XT '04 F100 4x4 '82 Subaru Outback '02 |
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#75 | ||
Petro-sexual
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,527
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Since I cant eidt my above post any more, I need to add this....
It seems there are some mistakes with the latest incarnations of ADR 18/00, /01 & /02. (I knew I had read once before that my car fell into the +-10% allowance) These three documents have all been revised in 2006, and I must have missed it before when I read it. ADR 18/00 allows +-10% ADR 18/01 allows +10% ADR 18/02 allows +-10% Someone has stuffed up. I dare say that ADR18/01 is supposed to also read +-10%. So with this, I am back to my original stance, that my car can be speeding whilst being 100% legal as per the required ADR. Last edited by MAD; 13-07-2010 at 06:02 PM. |
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#76 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ipswich, Qld
Posts: 1,354
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I hope you haven't eaten your hat yet!
![]() What about ADR 18/03? It's annex suggests the following: In the case of vehicles of categories M and N: 0 ≤ (V1 – V2) ≤ 0.1 V2 + 6 km/h; The whole layout of the ADR is confusing to say the least, I think I'll just stick with my previous theory on not speeding. :P
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----------------------------------------------------- 2012 Focus ST Tangerine Scream Continually having a battle of wits with unarmed opponents. Sez ![]() Photo's by Sez |
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#77 | |||
Petro-sexual
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,527
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Quote:
That extra bit of info (that there is not mention of) just means that cars can be slower again compared to what the speedo is saying. This is how bad it could be and still be acceptable by the ADR. indicated - actual 40 - 30 80 - 66 120 - 102 I think this is dangerous. That sort of speed difference can cause major chaos. |
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#78 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ipswich, Qld
Posts: 1,354
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Quote:
But I agree completely, under the speed limit causes frustrations to drivers, particularly when it's up to 18km's under the speed limit.
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----------------------------------------------------- 2012 Focus ST Tangerine Scream Continually having a battle of wits with unarmed opponents. Sez ![]() Photo's by Sez |
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#79 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 63
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There is only one reason they man these vehicles.... If they didn't have a person in them there would be a molitov cocktail thru the window in under 5 minutes.
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#80 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rowville
Posts: 314
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#81 | ||
It all counts
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 712
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"cut the road toll" - HAH! more people are hooning, speeding and dying on the roads than ever before ..unless every car in the world is fitted with a GPS speed limiter this problem will never be solved and we will just keep going in circles! How many speeding fines are posted out and the people continue to drive around and build up a collection of unpaid fines .. how about putting that money into making new laws allowing the police to arrest and throw these people in jail. i bet they'd pay their fines and change their ways after a few months, years with hardened criminals.
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NWOLB 8 built by Autotech Engineering tuned by KPM
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#82 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
As for dying its much much less then it use to be. Why? Cause the cars are so much safer then they ever were. Seatbelts have done a huge job. Fixing the roads, making the cars safer will reduce make it safer then speedo watching and revenue making.
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Daniel |
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#83 | |||
Custom FG XR6!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Perth - N.O.R
Posts: 1,094
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These are still marked aka POLICE of the front doors....
BTW anyone notice they are parked in a NO STANDING area.... should fine them!!! Quote:
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2009 FG XR6 ![]() ![]() |
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#84 | |||
chuck miller ford texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kalgoorlie
Posts: 386
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Quote:
I was about 8% thru writing a big diatribe about the subject but I'll just say one sentence. The balance between the skill to safely operate a motor vehicle and the training received to operate a motor vehicle are drastically out of whack. Addressing this should be priority #1
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1918 Buick, 1930 Studebaker, 1953 Ford Crestline, 1955 Buick Special, 1957 Cadillac, 1962 Cadillac, 1963 Ford Galaxie, 1966 Ford Fairlane, 1971 Chevelle, 1979 Trans Am, 2002 Ford TE50, 2005 CV8 Monaro, 2010 G6e Turbo, 2014 FPV GT-F |
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#85 | |||
Petro-sexual
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,527
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Quote:
I cant find anything about the regulations before that. 2006 is when the new complicated, up to 18km/h below the speed limit, formula was brought in. The rest before that were +-10%. |
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#86 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: ...in the shed
Posts: 3,386
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Quote:
The merc vans take it out the back window. None of this multi lane multi direction bull lol |
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#87 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 368
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Quote:
**** |
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#88 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 368
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Quote:
**** |
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