The Stimulus Cabbage is a coming! - Page 3

4Vman · 03-04-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

the most heavily taxed population in the world gets a small amount back in the form of a once off payment. and the sky is falling.

how about you business owners stop trying to make blue collar workers sound like a bunch of thoughtless morons. ill bet your accountants made more than $900 for you by 'tax minimization' last year so DONT get all high and mighty.

What a load of do do... seriously.. Firstly.. nobody is getting anything back, this money we're getting is borrowed.. Secondly the best paid professions at the moment are trade based, and that counts for both business owner and employee's.. Degree based professions are the poor cousins now.
That aside until you've run your own business you've got absolutely no idea or right to comment on just how difficult it is for the vast majority of business owners to maintain employment for their staff.....
As far as "tax minimization" goes every aussie worker has the ability to do this.. not just business owners and accountants.

Barry_v · 03-04-2009, 10:58 PM

blah blah blah my life is so hard. i suppose you do it out of the goodness of your heart.

so did your accountant make you $900 off your tax last year or not? explain to me how this is not a case of you being upset that others are getting a tax break and you are not?

4Vman · 03-04-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

blah blah blah my life is so hard. i suppose you do it out of the goodness of your heart.

so did your accountant make you $900 off your tax last year or not? explain to me how this is not a case of you being upset that others are getting a tax break and you are not?

What? you don't use an accountant to explore every legal avenue to minimize your exposure? who's the stupid one then?
This 900 isnt a tax break.. its a personal loan from the govt, you'll have to pay it back.. with interest sooner or later.

Bent8 · 03-04-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

Mate, the way society works there's a pecking order

There's those that are business owners who provide employment opportunities for those that either (1) don't want to wear the financial risk of running a business, or (2) those that don't mind the risk so much but enjoy the security of a salary and 4 weeks paid leave a year without worrying whats going on back at the farm. Incidently the latter is the category I fall into

Business owners are not all wealthy as some like to stereotype them. They can come from within the ranks of both the rich or average Joe, but one things for sure nobody was ever offered a job from a poor man, so this philosophy that some people have about the wealthy being elitists and crooks doesn't sit well with me.

If it wasn't for rich people unemployment would be in the mid to high 20's

True to a point, but unfortunately the super-rich (the one's you don't see mentioned in the Forbes Top 10) are going to ruin it for everyone rich and poor alike.

Money is just a tool, it has NO inherent value. (not backed by precious metals)

GT0132 · 03-04-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

the most heavily taxed population in the world gets a small amount back in the form of a once off payment. and the sky is falling.

how about you business owners stop trying to make blue collar workers sound like a bunch of thoughtless morons. ill bet your accountants made more than $900 for you by 'tax minimization' last year so DONT get all high and mighty.

I've looked back through this thread twice now and nowhere can I see where business owners have made blue collar workers out to be a bunch of thoughtless morons, so I can only presume that's how you perceive them to be. I really take issue with that assertion you make. My two brother in laws are both electricians ( each 28 year veterans in the trade) and are two of the most intelligent people I've ever met and earn far more than me as a CPA accountant.

So I've told both of them...."lads...next year there'll be no more advice on tax minimisation schemes until my income has caught up with yours !! ...they agreed, we all laughed and chugged back on another JD and Coke

What 4V said is right....university trained vocations are, on average, now lagging well behind the trades, unless you're a partner in a top 10 law firm

Walkinshaw · 03-04-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

What? you don't use an accountant to explore every legal avenue to minimize your exposure? who's the stupid one then?
This 900 isnt a tax break.. its a personal loan from the govt, you'll have to pay it back.. with interest sooner or later.

So you would be thankfull you're not getting it and dont have to pay it back?

As for if the whole payment scheme is a good idea?....I'm not sold yet,,,

Barry_v · 03-04-2009, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

What? you don't use an accountant to explore every legal avenue to minimize your exposure? who's the stupid one then?

i never called anyone stupid. im tempted to now.

the point i was making if you dont get it: you have no hesitation to 'cheat' money from the govt via the taxation system and yet when everyone else gets taxation break you cry blue murder.

4Vman · 03-04-2009, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

i never called anyone stupid. im tempted to now.

the point i was making if you dont get it: you have no hesitation to 'cheat' money from the govt via the taxation system and yet when everyone else gets taxation break you cry blue murder.

"Cheat" ??!! Nobody has said its ok to break the law in regards to taxation claims.. you really need to read things properly and not wonder off on some wild irrelevant tangent...

Barry_v · 03-04-2009, 11:12 PM

i used the word 'cheat' loosey. taxation loopholes arent illegal by definition.

4Vman · 03-04-2009, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

So you would be thankfull you're not getting it and dont have to pay it back?

As for if the whole payment scheme is a good idea?....I'm not sold yet,,,

One things for sure.. i'll be paying for it weather i get it or not.....
I think the concept of "investing" money into the economy is a sound idea.. the problem is KRudd has chosen the "popular" method, not the best or most responsible method...

4Vman · 03-04-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

i used the word 'cheat' loosey. taxation loopholes arent illegal by definition.

Which makes them legal and open to you, me and every smart Australian.

FRDGAL · 03-04-2009, 11:18 PM

What if you were getting Youth Allowance as your only income all of last year and you paid tax out of that and then lodged a tax return. Do you get the learning/training bonus plus this $900?

snappy · 03-04-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

What 4V said is right....university trained vocations are, on average, now lagging well behind the trades

Not all tradies get paid well most would average $700 a week outside of the big smoke . Also how many university trained vocations cant get out of bed at 35 or even 30 because of a bad back or some injury that job related.

I dont know bugger all about politcis but if this $900 provides me with a bit of work in the next couple of weeks i will be happy .
Went to my plasterboard supplier today they have had one delivery this week they average 60 to 100 delivery's weekly (being a tradie aint so good). I know it hurt in the long run but it will hurt me more if i lose my house in the short term from no work.

GT0132 · 03-04-2009, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy84

Not all tradies get paid well most would average $700 a week outside of the big smoke . Also how many university trained vocations cant get out of bed at 35 or even 30 because of a bad back or some injury that job related.

I dont know bugger all about politcis but if this $900 provides me with a bit of work in the next couple of weeks i will be happy .
Went to my plasterboard supplier today they have had one delivery this week they average 60 to 100 delivery's weekly (being a tradie aint so good). I know it hurt in the long run but it will hurt me more if i lose my house in the short term from no work.

That's the other side of it and where the benefit ought to be....Recipients using the $900 to spend on things like builders, plasterers, plumbers etc to create work for them....Trouble is a lot will spend it on cigs, booze, pokies, PS3. X-Box games, or pay off the credit card.

I really do hope you get some work out of it Snappy because that's where I see the benefit in it.

Redmund · 03-04-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

i used the word 'cheat' loosey. taxation loopholes arent illegal by definition.

How is it any different for an individual to exploit loopholes and claim deductions?

Barry_v · 03-04-2009, 11:28 PM

stimulus scrapped! tax breaks for 100K plus bracket! three cheers for the rich get richer!

the difference is I cant lease a new ute and remove the cost from my income or numerous other benefits business owners can fudge. but the point wasnt that these ideas and techniques are wrong. more to the point they are no less 'wrong' then joe average recieving a tax rebate of $900.

4Vman · 03-04-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

stimulus scrapped! tax breaks for 100K plus bracket! three cheers for the rich get richer!

the difference is I cant lease a new ute and remove the cost from my income or numerous other benefits business owners can fudge. but the point wasnt that these ideas and techniques are wrong. more to the point they are no less 'wrong' then joe average recieving a tax rebate of $900.

Well grow some goolies and start your own business that requires a ute and claim it (and other business related running expenses) till your hearts content seeing its such a big benefit.... Nobody can claim car and business expenses legally without justification.
I fundamentally object to your notion of lumping this $900 with legitimate business expenses as some kind of offset or trade off to "compensate" non business owners as if these business related claims are some kind of "golden egg"....

Barry_v · 03-04-2009, 11:37 PM

i dont need to, the govt is giving me $900 to spend on my car.

4Vman · 03-04-2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

i dont need to, the govt is giving me $900 to spend on my car.

Well i hope you buy Australian made parts!

Barry_v · 03-04-2009, 11:39 PM

for gods sake, stop editing your posts. if you're so sure i have nfi type it right the first time.

Barry_v · 03-04-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I fundamentally object to your notion of lumping this $900 with legitimate business expenses as some kind of offset or trade off to "compensate" non business owners as if these business related claims are some kind of "golden egg"....

so tax breaks for business is legitimate but for individuals its a golden egg. glad we got that settled

4Vman · 03-04-2009, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

so tax breaks for business is legitimate but for individuals its a golden egg. glad we got that settled

Are you even reading the right thread?

Barry_v · 03-04-2009, 11:50 PM

the government has already introduced some taxation breaks for small business anyway. http://www.pm.gov.au/media/Release/2...lease_0782.cfm

Barry_v · 03-04-2009, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Are you even reading the right thread?

im reading the right thread, its just the posts keep changing...

RPO83 · 03-04-2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

stimulus scrapped! tax breaks for 100K plus bracket! three cheers for the rich get richer!

the difference is I cant lease a new ute and remove the cost from my income or numerous other benefits business owners can fudge. but the point wasnt that these ideas and techniques are wrong. more to the point they are no less 'wrong' then joe average recieving a tax rebate of $900.

There are 1.88 million small business operators employing almost 4 million Australian's. If you bite the hand that feeds the economy 'joe average' would be more than buggered.

The point others have made to you is that nobody is 'getting something back', the package is all based on borrowed money that every taxpayer will have to repay over time with interest. The mechanism is different from tax cuts or tax rebates.

The issue some people have with this package is that the Government has no specific means to measure how successful the stimulus will be other than looking at established KPI's, and there are great limitations to that.

4Vman · 03-04-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

the government has already introduced some taxation breaks for small business anyway. http://www.pm.gov.au/media/Release/2...lease_0782.cfm

There you go! stuff the ute, go out tomorrow and buy a backhoe with a computer! you can claim another $18.6K!

4Vman · 03-04-2009, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

im reading the right thread, its just the posts keep changing...

Time to ease up on the turps i think..!

**GasoLane** · 03-04-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

I have no idea what my hourly rate is. I'm a public Servant. I go to work and each fortnight get paid.

And we all know that public serpents (typo...sorry Bucky...) get more than us mere mortals

:

Barry_v · 03-04-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPO83

The point others have made to you is that nobody is 'getting something back', the package is all based on borrowed money that every taxpayer will have to repay over time with interest. The mechanism is different from tax cuts or tax rebates.

so when i pay tax it goes into building roads/employing policemen.any tax i get back is borrowed money. when a business pays tax it goes into magical fairyland and any they get back comes from this magical place not hurting anybody?

4Vman · 04-04-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

so when i pay tax it goes into building roads/employing policemen.any tax i get back is borrowed money. when a business pays tax it goes into magical fairyland and any they get back comes from this magical place not hurting anybody?

You are very confused aren't you..
The funds for the "stimulus" package is being borrowed, its not coming from collected taxes or consolidated tax revenue that you, i and everyone else contributes to, because that money has already been allocated for "normal" budgetary spending and has run out.....
Think of it as KRudd has a big credit card that he's loading up paying us this $900... and we have to pay it off sooner or later with interest.