Ute Comparison. VE Holden SV6 & SS vs FG Ford XR6T & XR8 - Page 3

4Vman · 09-08-2009, 07:56 PM

Ive got a few friends with "sports" utes that get used for their trade carrying tools, never been able to work out why people buy utes if they're not going to carry anything??

BPXR6T · 09-08-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive got a few friends with "sports" utes that get used for their trade carrying tools, never been able to work out why people buy utes if they're not going to carry anything??

FBT free in certain situations...

4Vman · 09-08-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

FBT free in certain situations...

Any vehicle has tax "benefits" if its used for business purposes.....

Falc'man · 09-08-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Any vehicle has tax "benefits" if its used for business purposes.....

I wouldn't buy a ute if I didn't need it either. However, if I didn't *need* a sedan and I was a rep of some sort then a ute would be an attractive financial proposition.

BPXR6T · 09-08-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Any vehicle has tax "benefits" if its used for business purposes.....

Back when I had a ute(two years ago) special conditions applied to utility vehicles of a certain load carrying/passenger carrying ratio and motor cycles that made them more appealing tax wise. Can't remember the details. Too long ago. Best chat with your accountant for more info...

**PepeLePew** · 09-08-2009, 08:57 PM

Im just bitter as I have to carry masses of human flesh in a sedan these days.

But I have discovered I can novate a ute FBT free in my conditions where I ONLY drive my car to work and back (which is 100% true).

Be kind of cool if Ford offered a Crewman style XRT or F6.

Not as pretty but...

Spitfire 6.2 · 09-08-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

But I have discovered I can novate a ute FBT free in my conditions where I ONLY drive my car to work and back (which is 100% true)

Thats the exact deal work has me on. Work use, to and from work, no private use (yeah right).

1TUFFUTE · 09-08-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watto_Cobra

Rear suspension in the ute racing is same config as what we buy. Commos have extra grunt down the straights and the Falcs make it up through the corners, which seems like a contradiction. :togo:

now that is exactly what im talking about...does every tester not have a clue what they are talking about or what...the xr8 flogs the ssv in a straight line and with its ancient suspension seems as good if not faster around a track too.....WHAT THE... never seem to hear any of this ever

gocruzin · 10-08-2009, 12:44 AM

The super pursuit was the only way to get a gt without paying luxury car tax.
I use mine for work regularly carry at least 500kg in drums and whatnot, also use it to feed the cows in the back paddock at home. My mates holden ute won't carry as much as mine, it handles like a bucket of puss with a load on, whereas my ute handles better with some weight in it.
short answer the ford does everything i want it to do

z80 · 10-08-2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

If you have nothing constructive to say maybe you should try and not SAY anything at all.

:

It's pretty constructive to say that most utes in suburbia are pansy utes me thinks.

(As exemplified by the subsequent responses)

If you don't like hearing the truth maybe you should go to church instead.

gocruzin · 10-08-2009, 12:50 AM

Meh! think what you like.

nugget378 · 10-08-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z80

It's pretty constructive to say that most utes in suburbia are pansy utes me thinks.

(As exemplified by the subsequent responses)

If you don't like hearing the truth maybe you should go to church instead.

People buy a vehicle for reasons that suit themselves, How is it even an issue how someones chooses to use THEIR ute..

Bad Bird · 10-08-2009, 11:57 AM

I swear I saw an article showing that on the track, the leaf spring Falcon was no slower than the IRS Commode.

The first thing I say when people start bagging out leaf springs is "Is that your opinion, or did you get it from Top Gear?" Usually leaves (get it...?) them pretty red in the face.

smoo · 10-08-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

I swear I saw an article showing that on the track, the leaf spring Falcon was no slower than the IRS Commode.

The first thing I say when people start bagging out leaf springs is "Is that your opinion, or did you get it from Top Gear?" Usually leaves (get it...?) them pretty red in the face.

Except for maybe unloading the inside wheel a bit more than irs on hard cornering, on a smooth surface (race track) there is no reason why the live axles will have inferior performance, aren't they the preferred set up for drag racing in the states? (Camaro, Mustang). As for the the top gear article, the Corvettes rear suspension is a proven design, I'm sure if it was a European car it would be ok... no one gives s hit to BMW or Porsche for using Mac Struts.
Its just the same tossers who bag pushrods etc. They will probably choose the car they buy because it has VVTi or VANOS in the ad because it sounds good. I wouldn't take a review seriously where one of the top three bad points listed for the Falcon was no auto up/down windows. This latte sipping pansy probably doesn't know what a leaf spring looks like, should stick to his inner city cafes and Audi TTs.

gocruzin · 10-08-2009, 05:09 PM

+1 to the above post

xtremerus · 10-08-2009, 08:16 PM

V8SC have live axle rear ends don't they????? No leaves of course.

castellan · 10-08-2009, 08:42 PM

Have a look at your holden and ford touring cars. not running the original rear end are they. they just use a live axle, don't they.

Swordsman88 · 10-08-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremerus

V8SC have live axle rear ends don't they????? No leaves of course.

yep watt's linkage for the win!!!!

Spitfire 6.2 · 10-08-2009, 10:23 PM

So now ford utes are V8 supercars because they have live axels?

Bad Bird · 11-08-2009, 09:03 AM

Strawman argument for the win...

Wretched · 11-08-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoo

Except for maybe unloading the inside wheel a bit more than irs on hard cornering, on a smooth surface (race track) there is no reason why the live axles will have inferior performance, aren't they the preferred set up for drag racing in the states? (Camaro, Mustang). As for the the top gear article, the Corvettes rear suspension is a proven design, I'm sure if it was a European car it would be ok... no one gives s hit to BMW or Porsche for using Mac Struts.
Its just the same tossers who bag pushrods etc. They will probably choose the car they buy because it has VVTi or VANOS in the ad because it sounds good. I wouldn't take a review seriously where one of the top three bad points listed for the Falcon was no auto up/down windows. This latte sipping pansy probably doesn't know what a leaf spring looks like, should stick to his inner city cafes and Audi TTs.

Horses for courses, the IRS is a superior circuit set up, I mean if it wasn't then most if not all wouldn't use it. Simply put the amount of grip and stability is so much better on a road and circuit than with the solid rear axle.

Not entirely correct with BMW and Porsche, BMW don't use it for the 7 series or the 2007+ X5. Porsche don't use a coil spring, they use torsion bars in the lower wishbone, the strut only provides damping. So not your typical setup as you would indicate. This is where years of R&D go to work.

Are you serious or just taking the ? VVTI, VANOS, VTEC, etc are not simply marketing tools, they are big leaps in technology for the ICE. By your logic Fuel Injection was also bought by the public because it sounded good? If you want to stay in the caveman era of motoring that is fine, but don't keep the rest of us down there with you. !

merlin · 11-08-2009, 11:08 AM

Personally I don't think the article was too biased - the XR6T did win after all. You guys read a bit too far into things sometimes.

I think the issue with the suspension is more about ride quality than outrite speed...I agree with the journo the sports utes should have IRS - the load argument is silly seeing the Commodore carries more too. The commercial ute can still use a leaf rear.

I do agree though that the XR8 was quicker yet had the tagline "all bark no bite" - that did not make any sense whatsoever. His point was that the SS had a more flexible engine but he wrote it very badly. I don't think the poor XR8 gets a very fair deal in all these reviews - a $40K motor vehicle with a 290kw V8 and a sub 0-100 run yet still gets bagged out for being slow...

0-100 in 5.2 seconds is amazing for the FG turbo ute - this is approaching supercar territory. We should be focusing more on that.

Iggypoppin' · 11-08-2009, 12:17 PM

I've never seen sence in holdens utes(or ford for that matter but to a lesser extent) where I work I see hundreds of tradies cone in everyday. The ones who own a high performance ute seem reluctant to use it for it's purpose. "quick, cover the tailgate or that piece of timber might touch my paint". Oh dear. HTFU!!! Prissy little wannabes in their flash utes, they aren't tradies. What'd you buy the ute for, and start an apprenteceship for, if your going to dilly-dally about your "work ute's" paint? The guys with good ol' beat up xf's or hiluxs, they're tradies. "chuck her on mate, don't worry bout the paint!" they're workers. And the few who do own flash utes and actually get them dirty? Well done. Your not wasting your money.

Bad Bird · 11-08-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

Horses for courses, the IRS is a superior circuit set up, I mean if it wasn't then most if not all wouldn't use it. Simply put the amount of grip and stability is so much better on a road and circuit than with the solid rear axle.

It isn't quite so cut and dry as that. A say "ideal" IRS may be better than an "ideal" live axle, but a well setup 3-link with long trailing arms and a decent (but not excessive) amount of anti-squat will kick the ever-loving crap out of almost any factory IRS available. The ability to maintain a constant roll couple (using a chassis mounted Watts link, or well-tuned Mumford within a certain range of motion) goes a long way to giving good stability.

The weakness comes does to ride over very rough roads...

Ibrox90 · 11-08-2009, 01:29 PM

First of all let me say I look at a car for what it is NOT the badge on it.

I LOVE the SS Ute i think its a stunning design just on looks alone and the drive is good too. Not great sounding but nothing a new exhasut wont fix.

The XR6T is a rocketship

I agree with the article if you want an 8 buy the SS if you want a 6 buy the XR6T

Point for pondering.
Any unrepairable damage from the side or rear or front of the SS ute or indeed any VE UTE means dismantalling the car because the side panel is all one panel. Ive seen the process of replacing the panel and lets say its not plesant and more than likely the car will be written off.

Falc'man · 11-08-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

Personally I don't think the article was too biased - the XR6T did win after all. You guys read a bit too far into things sometimes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

I don't think the poor XR8 gets a very fair deal in all these reviews - a $40K motor vehicle with a 290kw V8 and a sub 0-100 run yet still gets bagged out for being slow...

...

4Vman · 11-08-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

...

Poor merlin, I call that completely

:

AzuR · 11-08-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJXR6

I've never seen sence in holdens utes(or ford for that matter but to a lesser extent) where I work I see hundreds of tradies cone in everyday. The ones who own a high performance ute seem reluctant to use it for it's purpose. "quick, cover the tailgate or that piece of timber might touch my paint". Oh dear. HTFU!!! Prissy little wannabes in their flash utes, they aren't tradies. What'd you buy the ute for, and start an apprenteceship for, if your going to dilly-dally about your "work ute's" paint? The guys with good ol' beat up xf's or hiluxs, they're tradies. "chuck her on mate, don't worry bout the paint!" they're workers. And the few who do own flash utes and actually get them dirty? Well done. Your not wasting your money.

hahahaha, that post made me laugh eh. i'm guessing you work at bunnings?

i guess according to your post i'm one of the prissy little wannabes who cares about my paint job on my ute?

i own my company, i own my ute, i use my ute for work and hell yer i care about scratching it, doesnt stop you from using it, i mean i could be cool like your idol's and just "chuck my gear on" whilst necking a VB and bashing my wife with the other hand, but that'd just cost me money

GT69 · 11-08-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzuR

hahahaha, that post made me laugh eh. i'm guessing you work at bunnings?

i guess according to your post i'm one of the prissy little wannabes who cares about my paint job on my ute?

i own my company, i own my ute, i use my ute for work and hell yer i care about scratching it, doesnt stop you from using it, i mean i could be cool like your idol's and just "chuck my gear on" whilst necking a VB and bashing my wife with the other hand, but that'd just cost me money

I was going to reply to this earlier, but i agree here. I wasn't aware people bought new cars, then belted them to hell with a hammer or something? Yeah, i care about my car.

I no what NJXR6 is getting at and i agree somewhat. But even when i was driving a 65 XP onto jobsites, i was (and other people were) careful of someone elses cars/equipment.

More over, you no how much a hilux costs? People look at an XR (6, T or 8) and immediately jump to the same conclusion. 'Must be getting paid to much' so on and so forth.

Also, How would you personally feel hiring a tradesman whose ute looked like it'd been rolled? Yeah....cares so little about his equipment, im sure he'll be extra careful with my house

:

I work 7 days a week, currently still driving about 1000 - 1500k's per week, Im sorry that i dont want to be driving some beat up piece of garbage around that distance, praying it doesnt die half way to work, just so you can think 'theres a real worker'. Now bunnings boy, stop pretending to be doctor phil and bring me my bloody order. And get the colour right this time.

Iggypoppin' · 11-08-2009, 11:50 PM

Sorry guys!!! No not at bunnings, in Adelaide I'm in a timber yard in edwardstown( that's enough info for me to be giving away). Most of what I said was said due to, seriously, a boat load of guys who don't appear to do any trade work but profess to be tradies. Obviously I'm over zealous and exaggerate my arguments somewhat, but it irks me. By all means, take care of your ute...but if you do own one, and are a tradie, please use it for its intended purpose. I see one guy in a blue VZ SS who comes in regularly, has been for a year, and his ute still resembles it's condition when new off holdens show room floor.

Ahwell. I knew I'd get flames for that last one. You obviously got my point though, but for the record..no offense meant to any tradies here on AFF. For the most part, I have a great respect for you guys. Your job isn't easy and you don't need me telling you to trash your property. As said, I didn't exactly think too well with my previous comment.