What car would you buy?

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I meant Diesels return false economy overall, not just fuel mileage.

A Diesel is usually more expensive to purchase, more expensive to service & more expensive to buy parts for. Sure the fuel economy difference is greater in city traffic than on the open road, but even if your fuel saving covers all of these extras, any major repairs are ridiculously expensive.

I base this after owning & managing an automotive workshop for over 40 years. Direct injection type engines are very susceptible to variations in fuel quality & major repairs are commonplace on late model Diesels, even inside the warranty period, where thankfully the manufacturer covers costs. I also supply a lot of parts to the trade & it's not uncommon to spent $3000-$5,000 in parts alone, on things like injectors & pumps etc. on relatively low mileage Diesel vehicles.

It cost me nothing in labour to service my own cars, but I wouldn't have a Diesel as a gift.

My daily drive is a V8 Adventra, probably the thirstiest non-high performance car that GM-H has ever built & to my mind, petrol is the cheapest part of owning the car. If you purchase a car new, by the time you've taken into account, monthly payments, rego, insurance, scheduled services & then factor in depreciation, fuel is not the major cost.

In the long run electric cars, either hybrid, plug-in or a combination of both will take over, but in the meantime I believe that Diesel cars are NOT the answer.

Dr Terry

BTW, I think that any Prius that cannot better the overall running cost of a Fiesta Diesel needs serious attention. Also we weren't discussing small economy cars here, I thought the OP was asking about medium-sized SUVs.

Reading that you would wonder why anyone would produce a diesel car :-)
You tend to selectively pick scenarios that don't suit diesel equation. Let's use your example - Adventra LS1 doing ,say 15000 km a year at 18 l/100 that is roughly (at $1.40) that comes to $3780 per year . Pretty sure that would be the single biggest cost of running that car.
Diesel (turbo) engines are built stronger ( more expensive to build) last longer and are more efficient by design. They have narrow rev range but lots of torque down low. If you need a car (truck ) to work hard - diesel is way to go.
For passenger light cars diesel can be seen more as a enjoyable , efficient , effortless drive - people choose them for their driving characteristics as much for their efficiency .

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

..,, that comes to $3780 per year . Pretty sure that would be the single biggest cost of running that car...

He didn't say running the car, he said owning the car, and he's right.

That fuel cost isnt even close to the depreciation loss in the first year of a new car.

Now I'm back to thinking I should just renew the Territory bushes/balljoints/shocks etc AGAIN and keep on truckin

After all I've already renewed the brakes, exhaust and tyres

For the record the Territory is an enjoyable, effortless drive too
Its just not too efficient.



.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Reading that you would wonder why anyone would produce a diesel car :-)
You tend to selectively pick scenarios that don't suit diesel equation. Let's use your example - Adventra LS1 doing ,say 15000 km a year at 18 l/100 that is roughly (at $1.40) that comes to $3780 per year . Pretty sure that would be the single biggest cost of running that car.
Diesel (turbo) engines are built stronger ( more expensive to build) last longer and are more efficient by design. They have narrow rev range but lots of torque down low. If you need a car (truck ) to work hard - diesel is way to go.
For passenger light cars diesel can be seen more as a enjoyable , efficient , effortless drive - people choose them for their driving characteristics as much for their efficiency .

I didn't say cost of running the car, I said overall ownership cost.

As I also said, Diesels have their place especially when it comes to towing. You can't beat the torque/economy combination of say turbo Diesel verses a petrol V8.

I'm talking about day to day cars. I've have had many owners thru my shop who rue the day they traded their petrol car on a new Diesel. If you just keep it for the warranty period & then unload it, no problems. But when it come to major repairs, which are commonplace, the cost of parts is often horrendous.

I had one last week where a guy purchased a Ranger from the ex-government auctions with 125,000 km on it. It developed a slight misfire at low speed. It needed a set of injectors & pump, along with all the associated filters etc. He shopped around all over Sydney & the cheapest quote for parts alone was $5,500. A bit rough for a relatively new vehicle.

The stories we hear regarding VW exhaust particulate filters are enough to make your eyes water.

I would also debate your assertion that Diesels "last longer". That may be the case with Kenworth trucks, but you've only got to visit the car auctions to see trade-in noisy smoky Diesel cars that have only done 150,000 km or so. Most modern petrol cars can triple that if properly serviced.

The taxi industry have had several trials of Diesel vehicles over the decades, none of which have met with much success. LPG or hybrid seems to be their chosen option.

The equation is likely to be totally different in other countries. In UK or Germany for example, where Diesel fuel is substantially cheaper than petrol, travel distances are shorter & where the various parts required are not sold at extortionate prices, it probably makes more sense.

As I said, fuel is not the only cost in running a car, but Diesels do have a place.

BTW, I know of many owners who spend more than $3,780 per year on car repayments or insurance alone, not to mention depreciation, so often it's not the "biggest single cost in running a car".

Dr Terry

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

In UK or Germany for example, where Diesel fuel is substantially cheaper than petrol, travel distances are shorter & where the various parts required are not sold at extortionate prices, it probably makes more sense.

In continental Europe (can't speak for UK) diesel isn't substantially cheaper any longer, turbo petrols have advanced so much and there is a big political move to get diesel out of cities for environmental reasons. And travel distances certainly aren't shorter, maybe only in the cities.

The diesel phase in Europe is all over bar the shouting. I'm sure the swing back to petrol for cars will come here before too much longer, if it hasn't started already. I wouldn't consider a diesel car a good long term investment and I stay away from them.

[Big_Daz]

Sometimes the whole Diesel V Petrol situation comes down to horses for courses... As said previously in this thread (and sorry for saying it again, lol) but ive got a Diesel (2015 6 Touring) and the reason I purchased it over the petrol version had nothing to do with the Fuel Economy. Price was an issue with the diesel version being approx. $3200 more than the petrol equivelant, but this was nullified when, with some pretty decent dealing, I got a Brand New Diesel for the same price as other dealers where selling demo petrols (end of month combined with my car being in stock, on the lot ready to go). The diesel got the nod quite simply because it drove better and in my opinion go's heaps better... Its a brilliant engine... Being able to tow the boat is handy as well...

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I'm not trying to be rude, nor start an argument, but IMHO spending $50k on car, but looking for economy is a non sequitur.

Ill back you on that, if you look at it just for economy reasons. maximum 10K for a trade in on the 06 Territory leaves 40K to spend
the replacement is going to have to be pretty economical to peg that back

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

If you're looking for a new AWD SUV, and stuck on economy, then I'd be looking at the New Nissan Pathfinder Hybrid. 2WD models can be had for $40k, $50k will get you a demo 4WD.

I wanted to test dive the hybrid pathfinder sales rep at Nissan said the extra 6 grand sticker price only gives you around 1L/100 better economy. and that the v6 was the better car.
The Pathfinder is a nice car to drive even with the CVT. but it is bigger than Territory and feels like it too.