The real GTS-R for Melborne

[rodderz]

Those wheels remind me of those shaped gingerbread man cutters you use for cutting the shapes out of the dough!

Perhaps you can get a star shaped one, a circle and a gingerbread outline too?

[Elks]

Originally Posted by brodfloyd

, But on par with AU forte in the looks department.

A whole bunch of Forte owners are gonna come looking for you....

Your right its not pretty. I don't like the wheels.

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by myts

News flash: To counter HSV's new 370kw GTS-R, FPV release new stripe package.!!





PS; I hope I'm wrong..

rofl

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Ryan

The Veyron also has 8 more cylinders, and 4 turbos,

This is a 7.0L N/A V8 making what? Half the power of the Veyron, using 8 cylinders less. Not bad.

I agree styling is fairly ordinary. Can't wait to see its performance.

I'm not making a remark on the engine perse', I'm commenting on the fact that it is just a commodore with a bigger engine and an ugly body kit, and the media are feigning over it like the second coming of christ.
My mention of the Bugatti in contrast was to illustrate that their 7 litre engine may be nice but this is what someone else did with 8 litres; a feat of engineering this is. Also, the numbers on the Bugatti are staggering, the weight of the engine is reputedly a little less than the Holden 7 litre corvette engine. It is manufacturers like Bugatti who set the benchmark on technology that eventually trickles down to the less exotic. As for other engines, the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti has over 550hp from 6 litres, the ford GT has the same from 5.4 with a supercharger on it, the SLR has 612 from a 5.5 litre with a supercharger etc. GM aren't in the same league when it comes to engines, as they are still in the old bigger displacement = bigger power mindset rather than the "lets wrangle more power out of this thing" mindset. One final thing, when people refer to gas guzzlers they are always referring to holdens, fords and 4wds. You never hear any of the more exotic being mentioned even when some of them have over twice the fuel burn as say a falcon. Ever wonder why?

[MethodX]

Looks like the new Skyline at the front, and most of you went all ga ga over that.

[marcosambrose]

According to holden's marketing team the car is "out of this world"....





what the hell is the car doing on the moon?

complete spastics sometimes... (ford and holden marketing)

[MITCHAY]

Should have been doing circle work on the Moon :

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Those wheels remind me of those shaped gingerbread man cutters you use for cutting the shapes out of the dough!

Perhaps you can get a star shaped one, a circle and a gingerbread outline too?

C'mon guys, it's not that bad. But 125K is a lot of Dosh. 100K should have been the limit.

Daniel

[FPVF6X201]

Typical of most mindsets. If you can't beat em, bash em. I'm man enough to say i like it, and i know there will be heaps of you ford fans that will have a go at anyone that thinks something different to you.

A few have said ford should do a GTHO or a GT500 mustang motor in an FG. Wheres the difference. Holden bring in a corvette motor and you go mad over the fact that holden did it. If ford had done it first you would all be singing its praises saying what a great car this is.

I do understand this IS a ford forum, with loyal ford owners. But FFS, get over yourselves. By Holden doing this, ford will HAVE to catch up in some way to satify the ford fans. Even if its only to up the boost on the F6.

End of rant as i go and find a safe spot to watch the flaming begin. :

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Turbowannabe

Typical of most mindsets. If you can't beat em, bash em. I'm man enough to say i like it, and i know there will be heaps of you ford fans that will have a go at anyone that thinks something different to you.

A few have said ford should do a GTHO or a GT500 mustang motor in an FG. Wheres the difference. Holden bring in a corvette motor and you go mad over the fact that holden did it. If ford had done it first you would all be singing its praises saying what a great car this is.

I do understand this IS a ford forum, with loyal ford owners. But FFS, get over yourselves. By Holden doing this, ford will HAVE to catch up in some way to satify the ford fans. Even if its only to up the boost on the F6.

End of rant as i go and find a safe spot to watch the flaming begin. :

No flame here, but allow me to elaborate what I think is wrong with it.
Firstly, it costs 125K. That sort of money is fine for a mercedes, BMW or Audi; but a Holden? It will depreciate like a stone in the first two years, as they will stumble past the 70K mark when the latest HSV in 2 years time features the same engine and doesn't look as ugly.
Secondly, it has some rather polarising looks to it doesn't it? There isn't much to see past a commodore with bolt on bits.
Thirdly, it still has the same drive line as the other commodores with just a bigger engine.
Finally, it is being heralded as an exquisite piece of engineering. It's not, it's just a bigger motor in another HSV.

I own a couple of expensive cars from the german fold and can tell you now that the car will stumble to find a market at that price. Traditionally the market for such a car tends to be largely company directors or upper echelons of management who are enthusiasts trying to minimise a bit of tax; but with the NAB figures released today showing business confidence has dropped 36% since November 24 and there being a lot of corporate belt tightening I'm starting to wonder where the sales for this new Halo car are going to come from.
For a little balance here I can tell you that I have trouble spending 80K on a ford let alone a Holden.

[ck11]

There are a few Holden and Ford owners who pay 70-80k for their FPV or HSV and spend a lot of money modifying it.

The whole argument that you could buy a porshe or skyline for that price doesnt make sense. They are not sedans. A evo lancer is more of a pure performance car compared to a hsv or fpv and people still buy big v8's.

The car is a limited run, so they will have buyers. It increases brand awareness and could be a marketing hit even if holden sell it at a loss. Holden have always been brilliant at new concepts and promoting the brand.

The opinion would be quite different if it was a FPV.

[ford man xf]

Who the hell buys a Commodore for $150k that in itself is a joke, whats even more funnier, people will actually buy this car!!

[FalconXV]

OK. The car being on the moon thing is a brilliant idea. The design of the car is absolutely ridiculous. The front end is a sloppy angled plastic mess! I can't understand how anyone with $150 000 would want such a hideous car; what a joke to look at!
Performance is outstanding, but a) any moron can stuff an imported motor in a Commo
b) it makes the EL GT look svelte!
FPV should call their bluff and benchmark LSA for GT-HO ( if they have the balls to do it!)

[Airmon]

Keep it on the moon, it looks better there. Plus that way it will always be #1.

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by ltd

No flame here, but allow me to elaborate what I think is wrong with it.
Firstly, it costs 125K. That sort of money is fine for a mercedes, BMW or Audi; but a Holden? It will depreciate like a stone in the first two years, as they will stumble past the 70K mark when the latest HSV in 2 years time features the same engine and doesn't look as ugly.
Secondly, it has some rather polarising looks to it doesn't it? There isn't much to see past a commodore with bolt on bits.
Thirdly, it still has the same drive line as the other commodores with just a bigger engine.
Finally, it is being heralded as an exquisite piece of engineering. It's not, it's just a bigger motor in another HSV.

I own a couple of expensive cars from the german fold and can tell you now that the car will stumble to find a market at that price. Traditionally the market for such a car tends to be largely company directors or upper echelons of management who are enthusiasts trying to minimise a bit of tax; but with the NAB figures released today showing business confidence has dropped 36% since November 24 and there being a lot of corporate belt tightening I'm starting to wonder where the sales for this new Halo car are going to come from.
For a little balance here I can tell you that I have trouble spending 80K on a ford let alone a Holden.

One dealership in Sydney took three deposits yesterday I'm told so selling it doesnt seem to be an issue.
I own BMWs as well and I dont buy new because of the horrendous depreciation. This thing would be a walk in the park by comparison.
By the way there are no new German 4 door sedans with that much power for $150k. There is no anything.. Hmmm maybe they are onto something.

I agree with Turbowannabe and others.
Some people say the "panda" look of the FPVs is ugly. Who cares? At the end of the day someone's favourite brand has built them a bloody impressive car with a supercar engine and brakes to match. Good on them

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by Airmon

Keep it on the moon, it looks better there. Plus that way it will always be #1.

Now thats funny

[Josh L]

I personally reckon the car is gonna be awesome. Looks are... unusual... but I wouldn't call it ugly. They definitely should have used some sort of prestige wheel instead.

I can appreciate the engineering gone in to it... it's a feat and a half.

It gets bloody hard for us Ford supporters when FoMoCo Aus keep squeezing drips out of little baby oranges when they can get big bottles of American juice. They are already using the Boss... why not go for the Ford GT motor as said before?

Ah well... best of luck to HSV and Holdung... hope the media/reporters get hold of it like what happened to our prescious 'HO and rip their dreams to shreads.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by ltd

the numbers on the Bugatti are staggering

Yeah including the price. Most worthless comparison ever, Commodore v Veryon :rolleyes:

Give GM the same budget and I'm sure they'd come up with something to rival these on paper stunners (BMW, Bugatti, Ferrari or whatever else you fantasise about).

It seems that most people are creaming themselves over FGs ****erish launch control, 'Aston Marton inspired styling' and ummmm, not much else for such a new important model, while this thing gets ripped to shreds by most. Typical head up the mentality. I know if this was a Ford the tables would be turned.

[ck11]

One dealership in Sydney took three deposits yesterday I'm told so selling it doesnt seem to be an issue.
I own BMWs as well and I dont buy new because of the horrendous depreciation. This thing would be a walk in the park by comparison.
By the way there are no new German 4 door sedans with that much power for $150k. There is no anything.. Hmmm maybe they are onto something.

I agree with Turbowannabe and others.
Some people say the "panda" look of the FPVs is ugly. Who cares? At the end of the day someone's favourite brand has built them a bloody impressive car with a supercar engine and brakes to match. Good on them

Good point, its always the people who are most concerned by the opposition that critisize blindly. Ford could easily do something similar, but thus far havent. This will only push Ford to develop their product, so give Holden some credit. Then again with the mentality and blind allegiance here (to a corporate American company of all things) it isnt much of a surprise.

[marcosambrose]

Oh well the verdict is still out on this thing, just like the KISS inspired FPVs...

Whoever said depreciation will kill this car was right, my guess is 50 % in 3 years.

[Mark^^]

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

According to holden's marketing team the car is "out of this world"....

what the hell is the car doing on the moon?

complete spastics sometimes... (ford and holden marketing)

Ah well this car should be on the moon, as the Craptiva is only made to drive arround the top of tall buildings (no one would actually drive one on a road), so the moon is the home for this one.

[GlennBA]

Originally Posted by TZENU

Not the best looking HSV but the overall package sounds unbelievably good...

Makes me wonder what Ford's reaction will be to it, if any!!

It should sell. Ford havemade some pretty ugly looking performance cars themselves.. EL GT.. DJR 320.. AU XR to name a couple.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by smoo

Yeah including the price. Most worthless comparison ever, Commodore v Veryon :rolleyes:

Give GM the same budget and I'm sure they'd come up with something to rival these on paper stunners (BMW, Bugatti, Ferrari or whatever else you fantasise about).

It seems that most people are creaming themselves over FGs ****erish launch control, 'Aston Marton inspired styling' and ummmm, not much else for such a new important model, while this thing gets ripped to shreds by most. Typical head up the mentality. I know if this was a Ford the tables would be turned.

No, it's not a worthless comparison because the Veyron is at the show and the crappodore is being billed as the most remarkable piece of engineering there. This is extremely one sided and bias especially when the rest of the world recognises that the veyron is the "concorde moment" in engineering.
GM would never rival the italians or the germans as they are still stuck in the 70's with engine design. If they were a formidable force in technology they would have a team or be an engine supplier to formula 1, but again they don't. Volkswagen did the bugatti at a loss, GM is in enough red to ensure that they will never ever deliver a car like the veyron. Furthermore they are now committed to supplying cars made by Daewoo which further demonstrates their mass produced attitude of replacing the safer european sourced vehicles in their previous range with more profitable and cheaper ones.

Your argument of "Give them enough money and they will" is stupid and childish, and the kind of remark I'd expect from someone who looks at a field, sees some sheep and says "alright". It's similar to the argument of "old men don't buy viagra because they are impotent, it's because old women are really ugly"

Finally I'm not creaming myself about launch control or anything else on the FG range, but I think the FG is worthy of being reported upon by the Australian media which myopically have picked a commodore with a bigger engine and an ugly body kit as the star of the show. In the same vein of your insidiously ridiculous comments, I suppose you thought the effijy hunk of junk was the best car ever.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Fordoldie

One dealership in Sydney took three deposits yesterday I'm told so selling it doesnt seem to be an issue.
I own BMWs as well and I dont buy new because of the horrendous depreciation. This thing would be a walk in the park by comparison.
By the way there are no new German 4 door sedans with that much power for $150k. There is no anything.. Hmmm maybe they are onto something.

I agree with Turbowannabe and others.
Some people say the "panda" look of the FPVs is ugly. Who cares? At the end of the day someone's favourite brand has built them a bloody impressive car with a supercar engine and brakes to match. Good on them

How could they take three deposits when Holden themselves have said that the pricing and configuration isn't finalized yet. I think it was perhaps three people who tried to place a deposit, as any reputable company would refuse to enter into a contract based on pictures from a motor show of a product of which its final dimensions and specifications haven't been agreed upon. Roughly speaking, it leaves Holden in a very actionable position should the car change any part of its dimension.
As for your assertion on the 150K cars with that much power, I respectfully submit that not many 150K cars have that much depreciation and poor quality. Go to http://www.redbook.com.au if you honestly think that BMW or Mercedes has higher depreciation than Holden or Ford, because it is a nonsensical argument. As you have bought your BMW second hand to avoid depreciation I would ask you then for your thoughts on what would happen when the commodore comes standard with this 7 litre motor. Remember all those years ago and they put a 6 litre in a monaro and based their pricing on over 200 grand and it failed in the market place and so was cancelled before production. This was the 6 litre, which is now in every V8 Holden. So, what do you think would happen to the value of the 427 when that engine is standard in every SS commodore; reputedly to occur in the next two years? Would you spend 90K on that car after two years when you could have a new SS with the same motor new for 65K?

Hmmm, maybe cashed up bogans aren't too bright here. Your attempt to patronise my post is duly noted. I suppose you too would subscribe to the theory on old men only needing viagra because old women are very ugly.

[5.4 GT]

Originally Posted by ltd

Remember all those years ago and they put a 6 litre in a monaro and based their pricing on over 200 grand and it failed in the market place and so was cancelled before production. This was the 6 litre, which is now in every V8 Holden.

Uh no... that was a 7 litre... and the L98 6.0litre V8 that is in all the Holdens now, wasn't used in any Monaro (even in concept) back then.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/1...V-HRT-427.html

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by ltd

...
Hmmm, maybe cashed up bogans aren't too bright here.

Interesting..
Deposits were paid for the 7 LITRE (as you have been duly corrected above) 427 Coupe as well and it wasnt the market who canned it, but Holden themselves I believe.
You can pay a deposit on anything you like without knowing final price or other details.
It's an act of good faith to be considered when official orders are ready to be placed.
I'm surprised someone with as much opinion as yourself is not aware of this simple business practice?

As for your opinion on quality and depreciation, we are talking about something that isnt built so it's a little early to assume I would think. Needless to say I am yet to see any local Holden or Ford based vehicle of late that doesnt depreciate. They all do and the more you spend the more you lose

In NZ, BMW's (and any Euro) have shocking depeciation from new. Aussie is not quite as bad

Sorry but I dont know what the bogan thing is about at all

[Falcon Coupe]

Slightly off topic, i had a look at the Corvette this engine belongs too, it's VERY fast.
Even in a Commodore this thing is gonna fly, and the fact it will do it stock with warranty is what impresses me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S7xbxuaXrA

I was talking to a "friend" in the know, he saw a developmental model on a chassis dyno, said it made over 315rwkw bog stock.

[BELTA]

Originally Posted by GlennBA

It should sell. Ford havemade some pretty ugly looking performance cars themselves.. EL GT.. DJR 320.. AU XR to name a couple.

EL GT, DJR, AU XR ugly???? :

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Fordoldie

Interesting..
Deposits were paid for the 7 LITRE (as you have been duly corrected above) 427 Coupe as well and it wasnt the market who canned it, but Holden themselves I believe.
You can pay a deposit on anything you like without knowing final price or other details.
It's an act of good faith to be considered when official orders are ready to be placed.
I'm surprised someone with as much opinion as yourself is not aware of this simple business practice?

As for your opinion on quality and depreciation, we are talking about something that isnt built so it's a little early to assume I would think. Needless to say I am yet to see any local Holden or Ford based vehicle of late that doesnt depreciate. They all do and the more you spend the more you lose

In NZ, BMW's (and any Euro) have shocking depeciation from new. Aussie is not quite as bad

Sorry but I dont know what the bogan thing is about at all

Thanks for your post, allow me to qualify mine a little.
With deposits being paid on a product that is not yet finalised, the company receiving the deposit is often placed in an actionable position should it fail to meet any of the implied or agreed specifications of the product. As holden said yesterday "the car is still to be finalised, but it will make production". Taking a deposit on something not yet definite places various implications upon both the customer and the provider. This is not a common business practice unless the customer has agreed to developmentally fund the supplier to a part or all of the value of the product. As Holden is a large manufacturer who apparently is making a profit, I don't see why they would want to expose themselves like that.
I have had some experience in a courtroom (not as the defendant), and I can tell you that I have taken on Holden with a WH caprice which was not fit for purpose after requiring its third Gen3 motor and fortunately for me, not of implied quality. It was settled outside of court and they paid the full amount for the car which they took back plus costs.

Another more notable compensation case was for Airbus industrie and the airlines who ordered the A380, as it does not meet the specifications it was advertising before construction. Airlines paid deposits in good faith, only to have advertised payloads reduced due to the airframe being slightly overweight by 9 tonnes. Furthermore, the fact that the airplane production is 18 months behind is also another stipulation which has left airbus industrie forking out over a billion dollars in compensation. I know, I work in the industry. Just hear what the CEO of Emirates has to say on the matter, he actually cancelled orders for the freighter and is considering cancelling orders for the passenger version too should any more unforeseen delays occur.

As for quality, there is a thread in the pub about ford and holden coming last in a quality survey, I'm guessing that coming from last to first will be difficult for both Holden and Ford and that is what I based my quality assessments on.

Also, there is another thread in this forum that talked extensively about the 6 litre motor which was brought out on a previous Halo car for Holden, but then became standard equipment across the range. The thread discussed owners who forked out close to 100K being marginalised by Holdens decision to put the 6 litre motor in all their V8's. I'll admit, I got it wrong with it being the 7 litre I meant the 6. But my point still stands as there are some who are saying that this engine will atleast be an option in commodores in the not too distant future.

Finally, as for depreciation, the euro's and japanese cars hold their value much better than the Oz products, I only now realised you are from New Zealand and I am not aware of the depreciation there as for you guys, Fords and Holdens are imports.

Oh, and before I forget, I am not being biased; I just don't think any ford or Holden made in Australia is worth anywhere over 100K.

[BadMac]

Originally Posted by ltd

Thanks for your post, allow me to qualify mine a little.
With deposits being paid on a product that is not yet finalised, the company receiving the deposit is often placed in an actionable position should it fail to meet any of the implied or agreed specifications of the product. As holden said yesterday "the car is still to be finalised, but it will make production". Taking a deposit on something not yet definite places various implications upon both the customer and the provider. This is not a common business practice unless the customer has agreed to developmentally fund the supplier to a part or all of the value of the product. As Holden is a large manufacturer who apparently is making a profit, I don't see why they would want to expose themselves like that.

SNIP

Oh, and before I forget, I am not being biased; I just don't think any ford or Holden made in Australia is worth anywhere over 100K.

So you are saying that nobody has yet placed a deposit on the FG FPV's as Ford are not taking deposits due to the legal implications (Mental note to Ring Fairviews on Monday and ask how many deposits there holding on GT/GTP's)? By the way the deposits are not held by Holden/HSV/Ford etc, but by the dealer, so HSV has no liability, just like with the stillborn GTS-R where 80 firm deposits were being held by dealers for the 50 cars, all were returned.

P.S. I personally know 2 people who have paid $10k deposits for the GTR-W (or what ever its called) sight and final specs unseen (I spoke to one today who is over the moon, he will be in Melborne on Monday and will check it out in person). He also previously ordered a Blueprinted GTS-R (the VS one) sight unseen for NZD $116k, he's trading his 7 month old GTS on it. Previous to his GTS he had an M5. He also has a 997 and his wife drives a beat up old Suzuki 4WD (go figure!).

And even though I know what you mean, i'll pull you up anyway. Are you suggesting that eveybody with a phase 3 are dreaming asking for more than $100k?