Covid 19 -

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Do Santa and Mrs Claus count as “faith leaders”?

Time to get my Christianity on

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Yep, that's my understanding, Polyal.

OK well thats pretty important, and that looks like its indefinite!

We are a family of 6, Christmas is usually 30+ of us..so Vic trip looking unlikely. I was hating Dan from a distance but I will dust off the pitch fork.

[FairmontGS]

They gotta catch you though... We're driving from Sydney to the family Christmas in remote South East Gippsland on a large, remote property and there will be way more than 10 people there I can guarantee you

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

They gotta catch you though... We're driving from Sydney to the family Christmas in remote South East Gippsland on a large, remote property and there will be way more than 10 people there I can guarantee you

But we can have 50 outside? they have no hope with people complying over Christmas.

[Citroënbender]

Faraday bags for phones will be the “must-have” pre Christmas endowment.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Polyal

OK, so if I am reading this correctly then people over Christmas can only have 10 in a house at once? And this is from the 22/11.

yep, what can I say? Mind you if it keeps going like it is then Dan may loosen them more

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Polyal

But we can have 50 outside? they have no hope with people complying over Christmas.

serious question, so we go to my son's place who lives on 2.5 acres and we don't go inside, we sit around outside, in the pool etc, can we have 50, what is the definition of 'home' and 'outside'

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Polyal

We are a family of 6, Christmas is usually 30+ of us..so Vic trip looking unlikely. I was hating Dan from a distance but I will dust off the pitch fork.

Just me, my wife, our 4 kids, their partners and our 6 grand-kids is 16!!!!! WTF!!!!!

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

serious question, so we go to my son's place who lives on 2.5 acres and we don't go inside, we sit around outside, in the pool etc, can we have 50, what is the definition of 'home' and 'outside'

I believe "outside" is also explained as having to be in a public place, so not on someones property

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by tweeked

I believe "outside" is also explained as having to be in a public place, so not on someones property

That is my understanding too, because that is our scenario for Xmas, there is 16 of us, just immediate family

[Trevor 57]

Outdoor religious gatherings can occur with up to 50 people and a faith leader.

Looks like I will have to break out the white collar - it is Xmas Day so it is a 'religious gathering'

A public place means an area that everyone can access, for example a local park or the beach.

https://www.coronavirus.vic.gov.au/c...-step-victoria

They are calling the 22/11 as the LAST step - bull-****, there is more to go than that ol' mate

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Polyal

We are a family of 6, Christmas is usually 30+ of us..so Vic trip looking unlikely. I was hating Dan from a distance but I will dust off the pitch fork.

As I understand it, the "10" people referred to are 10 adults. Their kids are not included in the 10. I maybe wrong, but that is how Dan has always referred to the number of people allowed. Kids were not included in the number.

"Dependents of the visitors are excluded from visitor
caps if they cannot be left unattended or cared for in
another setting."

Originally Posted by Polyal

Time to get my Christianity

The World Health Organisation has banned Santa Claus this year. They have deemed Santa to be too much of a risk of being a COVID Super Spreader. So no Santa this year kids!

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

serious question, so we go to my son's place who lives on 2.5 acres and we don't go inside, we sit around outside, in the pool etc, can we have 50, what is the definition of 'home' and 'outside'

I thought outside is still reference to parks etc not your home, I'm sure someone here will correct me on this.
It will be interesting to see what Danny boy allows for Xmas day gatherings the number of people allowed in homes.
Remember Dan did say this will be a Covid Xmas so don't hold your breath for large numbers.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by prydey

Getting tested for the sake of it seems like a waste of time and resources. Sure, asymptomatic cases will be caught but a negative result is only relative to that day you got tested.

In Sydney they are testing the poo water and still finding traces of the virus.

I'm wondering if the traces are residual from past positives that are now virus free? Considering that it was (still is??) believed that the virus stays in your system after you are cleared and provides some immunity?

I heard 26,000 tests were done around the Hills district after the sewer findings were announced but no word on if there were any positives.

[FairmontGS]

Another scalp. Getting nearer to Dan

Health Department boss Kym Peake resigns

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...12-p56e5f.html

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Another scalp. Getting nearer to Dan

Health Department boss Kym Peake resigns

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...12-p56e5f.html

Eccles was close. This is actually getting further. Can't work out from that article whether she resigned or her contract ended. The last few months would have taken an enormous toll on everyone involved, for what appears to be, very little outside recognition. A thankless job.

Meanwhile, Mr 71% has a job to do to recover the economic mess.

[Trevor 57]

what are some of you going to do if the inquiry finds that Andrews played no role in the Hotel Quarantine fiasco, if it all happened without his knowledge?

That ****ant O'Brien will wet himself if it does go that way

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

what are some of you going to do if the inquiry finds that Andrews played no role in the Hotel Quarantine fiasco, if it all happened without his knowledge?

That ****ant O'Brien will wet himself if it does go that way

I might be missing what you are saying, but, if the Premier doesnt get involved or signs off on a once in a 100 year quarantine event then what does he do?

He may not know or be directly responsible for every detail, but he should be across it.

[FairmontGS]

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

what are some of you going to do if the inquiry finds that Andrews played no role in the Hotel Quarantine fiasco, if it all happened without his knowledge?

That ****ant O'Brien will wet himself if it does go that way

If he had no knowledge of this critical function?

Then it would prove beyond all doubt that he failed miserably. He created workplace manslaughter laws where it holds the top person responsible where they are unaware of critical functions.

The ONLY way he should escape responsibility is if he can prove that he ensured that there were checks and balances in place, that he made sure everyone covered off on foreseeable risks - and that they then lied to him. Continually saying they don't know who is responsible leads directly to failure at the top.

You have to open the other eye Trevor.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I might be missing what you are saying, but, if the Premier doesnt get involved or signs off on a once in a 100 year quarantine event then what does he do?

He may not know or be directly responsible for every detail, but he should be across it.

some in here might have missed it, but right when it went pear shaped he said in one of his media conferences that as head of the Government he is accountable

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...tel-quarantine

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=290161229070293

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

some in here might have missed it, but right when it went pear shaped he said in one of his media conferences that as head of the Government he is accountable

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...tel-quarantine

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=290161229070293

Cool. We all agree he is ultimately accountable for the debacle Trev.

So why is he still there then

Is it "alternative" accountability

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by tweeked

If he had no knowledge of this critical function?

Then it would prove beyond all doubt that he failed miserably. He created workplace manslaughter laws where it holds the top person responsible where they are unaware of critical functions.

The ONLY way he should escape responsibility is if he can prove that he ensured that there were checks and balances in place, that he made sure everyone covered off on foreseeable risks - and that they then lied to him. Continually saying they don't know who is responsible leads directly to failure at the top.

You have to open the other eye Trevor.

you are getting confused here, let's keep it simple

* as head of the Government he cannot be across EVERYTHING that happens under him - any senior manager will tell you that. They all rely on the competence of the people below them. If there was an issue, maybe he trusted people he shouldn't have (given hindsight)

* Did he make the actual decision to use security guards? I am fairly confident he didn't personally make that decision, but, as in my previous post, he is accountable for that decision

As for quoting Victoria's new WORKPLACE manslaughter legislation (section 39A to 39G of the OHS Act 2004), if you read the legislation (and I have as I teach this stuff most days) the responsibility and accountability will sit with the most senior person who made the decisions - and just to get it exactly right, the legislation is aimed at 'workplaces over which there is undoubted control'. Does Andrews have undoubted control over the security company, the hotels - NO!!!!, he does over his employees etc. I love how people quote law, but never quite get it right

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Cool. We all agree he is ultimately accountable for the debacle Trev.

I don't why people keep going on about it, he made he statement months ago

As for accountable, how do they do that? I am not defending him, it is a serious question. And don't quote the OHS law as it just doesn't apply. Police charges, maybe, I don't know all the Crimes Act to make a call, it is not my area of specialty

* His Government boot him?
* You vote him out at the next election?
* Michael O'Brien getting a small groin twinge every time Andrew's opens his mouth?

Oh, hang on, lets get the Governor General or maybe the Governor of Victoria to sack him and his Government

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

As for quoting Victoria's new WORKPLACE manslaughter legislation (section 39A to 39G of the OHS Act 2004), if you read the legislation (and I have as I teach this stuff most days) the responsibility and accountability will sit with the most senior person who made the decisions - and just to get it exactly right, the legislation is aimed at 'workplaces over which there is undoubted control'. Does Andrews have undoubted control over the security company, the hotels - NO!!!!, he does over his employees etc. I love how people quote law, but never quite get it right

Interesting.....who has undoubted control over Aged Care....... It seems nobody at the moment.

If there is a fork lift accident in the workplace that results in serious injury or death, is the CEO in trouble or is it the warehouse manager? I would think warehouse manager. I know of some MDs running warehouses that shut down their QLD operations when QLD introduced the manslaughter law. It scared the bejesus out of them.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Oh, hang on, lets get the Governor General or maybe the Governor of Victoria to sack him and his Government

Hey! Now you're talking

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Interesting.....who has undoubted control over Aged Care....... It seems nobody at the moment.

technically the Feds, but Andrews stepped in to save lives

Originally Posted by T3rminator

If there is a fork lift accident in the workplace that results in serious injury or death, is the CEO in trouble or is it the warehouse manager? I would think warehouse manager. I know of some MDs running warehouses that shut down their QLD operations when QLD introduced the manslaughter law. It scared the bejesus out of them.

our legislation is really targeted at the top, but if they found that the WM gave the direction that resulted in a death and the MD had no knowledge what so ever then potentially the WM would cop it. It is really quite interesting legislation. I have been reading and working daily with legislation (first Road Law and now OHS) since 1987 and part of this this Manslaughter legislation is difficult to read and comprehend

It isn't as simple as "oh, someone died at work, you're being charged with manslaughter", there is built in quite a few 'tests' before charges are laid

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Hey! Now you're talking

can't happen, so stop dreaming

[prydey]

What about the individuals that simply failed to follow protocol? Oh no, we must blame someone rather than expect personal responsibility.

If someone is trying to tell me the security people didn't know what they were doing was wrong then I have a bridge for sale...

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by prydey

What about the individuals that simply failed to follow protocol? Oh no, we must blame someone rather than expect personal responsibility.

If someone is trying to tell me the security people didn't know what they were doing was wrong then I have a bridge for sale...

they knew, the hotels should have called it out - there should have been far better oversight from who-ever made the cal to use security guards. Don't forget NSW & QLD also used security guards

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

I don't why people keep going on about it, he made he statement months ago

As for accountable, how do they do that? I am not defending him, it is a serious question. And don't quote the OHS law as it just doesn't apply. Police charges, maybe, I don't know all the Crimes Act to make a call, it is not my area of specialty

* His Government boot him?
* You vote him out at the next election?
* Michael O'Brien getting a small groin twinge every time Andrew's opens his mouth?

Oh, hang on, lets get the Governor General or maybe the Governor of Victoria to sack him and his Government

Wait for the findings from the inquiry, IMO one of two things will happen:

a) Andrews/others significantly involved/responsible. gross mismanagement, manslaughter, professional misconduct?

b) Andrews/others are incompetent F-wits, slap on the wrist

Given that +800 people died, and if no one goes to jail, the Fed's will call for a royal commission.