Government bending us over

[olfella]

Originally Posted by ltd

Absolutely brilliant.

And lets not forget that most of the infrastructure in and around canberra is the local state governments domain - not the federal.

Same as all state governments. They p1ss money away on stupid crap, then moan that they ran out of money. They are as useful as the artificial appendix. Get rid of the states and save some money there.

Im with you - lets get rid of the states and let the feds look after our health and education systems. I reckon they are an extravagance we can do without... :

[fangq]

[QUOTE=4.9 EF Futura]Lol. You've got to be kidding me, right?!?!?!?

Ever heard the saying "death and taxes" ?? Or do you plan on living forever as well as complaining about your tax expense?

What exactly do you think they do with the money? A picture is worth a thousand words:

snip

It sure is

Politicians use a lot of our tax monies to bribe us to vote for 'em .
I'd love to see voluntary voting ( i,e no more marginal seats..work for every vote, and no focused pork barreling ), and indexed for inflation tax scales every year.

Steve
btw..always wondered how compulsory voting and dollars per vote ( yes..the pollies do get that ) got around contravening the Electoral Act.
It's an offence to bribe a politician or offer them pecuniary gain, but they can obtain the same result via the punters votes.

[MightyXR6Turbo]

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Theres two main ways to get around some of it are; Claim as much as you can and hope you dont get audited.

Good work on that one mate. Audits are only increasing, by the way, you need to be able to substanciate all your claims if you exceed the limit posted in TaxPack.

This is also called fraud, particularly if you purposely lie and decieve the ATO it is defrauding the commonwealth. There are lots of penalties associated to people making fraudlent claims, and believe me, they aren't too shy on swinging the axe on those either. Go to www.ato.gov.au and just see how much revenue the ATO collects back off of people through audits.. alot of that cash is also in penalties/fines etc...

Best not to lie to big brother...

[olfella]

Originally Posted by fangq

Politicians use a lot of our tax monies to bribe us to vote for 'em .
I'd love to see voluntary voting ( i,e no more marginal seats..work for every vote, and no focused pork barreling ), and indexed for inflation tax scales every year.

Steve
btw..always wondered how compulsory voting and dollars per vote ( yes..the pollies do get that ) got around contravening the Electoral Act.
It's an offence to bribe a politician or offer them pecuniary gain, but they can obtain the same result via the punters votes.

And another thing while I have a chance... The only good thing the yanks have that we need is compulsary terms for the head man... Little johnny is getting a bit cocky in the hen house me thinks - and I know, it happened to Keating ...

[FTE217]

oh please don't compare the little fella to the worst leader we ever had to have !

[DDXR6T]

Originally Posted by XRchic

Gee some people on here make some big statements in their whinges, with very little knowledge of reality, economics, politics and law.... I dont think everyone knows everything but if you really dont know what you are on about with a particular subject, then dont post/whine about it! Go post about Fords!

And whinge about build quality issues? Or excessive fuel consumption? I've already worn those avenues out, so Ill stick to whinging about my taxe's. :jab:

Furthermore ... Gee, Its hard to make a post these days without E-mums and E-dads picking on every single quote in every paragraph.

[MightyXR6Turbo]

Originally Posted by olfella

And another thing while I have a chance... The only good thing the yanks have that we need is compulsary terms for the head man... Little johnny is getting a bit cocky in the hen house me thinks - and I know, it happened to Keating ...

How is getting Cocky? We keep voting him in, thus he continues to govern the country.

And how on earth did it happen to Keating? He stabbed Hawke in the back after an election, then got ousted on the next election. Funny that.. haha

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

oh please don't compare the little fella to the worst leader we ever had to have !

Thats why Johnny is doing so well now!!!
Before him the P.M who said "life wasn't meant to be easy"...

[olfella]

Originally Posted by MightyXR6Turbo

How is getting Cocky? We keep voting him in, thus he continues to govern the country.

And how on earth did it happen to Keating? He stabbed Hawke in the back after an election, then got ousted on the next election. Funny that.. haha

I think the short answer to that is would you like Bush to go around again?? Speaking of Keating and Hawke, I remember a Tanberg cartoon from back then, when there was a knock on the house door and it was Fraser trying to stir up Bill Hayden. The voice from the box came back and said ; it ain't Bill - it is Bob'...

[mik]

"life wasn't meant to be easy" actually i think that was malcom frasers line and keating used it

[mik]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Thats why Johnny is doing so well now!!!
Before him the P.M who said "life wasn't meant to be easy"...

well see how little johhny goes at the next election after his last promise "no australian will have his wages cut because of ir laws"

[Outbackjack]

My take on tax is that if the gov is sitting an 11b surplus, we are paying too much. This money will be dished at the best vote/dollar rate they can get.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by mik

"life wasn't meant to be easy" actually i think that was malcom frasers line and keating used it

YES it was Fraser as I figure Hawk and Keating the same...
Btw it was Allan Jones [Radio talk back] who wrote that for Fraser....
Interest rates had climbed while he was in.....

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Dont get me wrong, i hate paying TAX, but where exactly does everyone think the money goes????!! some big pot at the end of Howards bed?

Come on guys, look around you, OUR money is being spent back on us.
Reduce TAX and you reduce spending on services and benefits, and people will moan more...
Its not a perfect system, and you'll never please everyone, but id rather live here under this system than anywhere else in the world.

one thing we agree on , i actually dont mind paying my taxes . when people try to sell me investments and property , to pay interest rates to a bank instead , i tell them but my tax is going to society , not a bank, in the hope that i will get more for me. ( WHICH I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST ) but they just dont understand my replies. its not all about me being rich.
but yeah i also agree with the 1st post . :

[Lukeyson]

seriously, taxs will always be there, and everyone will whinge about it, BUT..... (i looking for the positive)..... we live in a pretty awesome country, things are pretty cruisey, not war torn or classed as 3rd world.

And as much as people think Howard gets a cut, CEO of Aussie car companies get paid more than him.

Ok, enough defending all that!!!! : :

[GCFordChic]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Now to pull the uni students up!

Yes - a free education would be nice. Sunshine and lollipops are nice as well. Now you realise of course that the money checked against your HECS/HELP/whatever its called a CONTRIBUTION? The actual cost of funding your place is approximately 300% of what you pay through HECS.

Someone offers you the opportunity to go to uni without having to pay uprfont and you slap them back in the face and about it? Why dont you try pulling the same shyte in the USA? $100,000 upfront should get you started.

Without HECS i simply couldnt afford to go to uni. My folks didnt have money to spend on that kind of luxury. So im happy to see $100 stripped out of my pay every fortnight to go towards HECS.

In my defence here, seeing as i was the one who brought uni up i assume this was directed my way, I WASNT COMPLAINING ABOUT HECS!

Read what I said again.
1. I 'complained' that they wanna keep pushing it up, people who did the same degree a couple of years before me got it thousands of dollars cheaper.
2. I'm continually told by older people that i have it so great, well considering some got their uni for free...
3. I never complained about the system,although i think it could be better.

4.MY MAIN POINT - i have no problem paying tax, seriously i just think it is crap that even though i am getting a uni education so i aint a pimple on the backside of society later in life, i cannot get a little help from Centrelink and get a jobseeker number so i can apply for more jobs. I cannot even apply for some part-time jobs because i dont have that bloody number!
I do not get youth allowance, austudy or any welfare, i work 25 hours a week on top of 5 subjects at uni a semester, hell i know at 19 i'm unable to have kids so i wont even be getting $3000 for having kid in the future.

So, where i can voice my concern with an aspect of the Government policy i will do so. This does not mean i am oblivious to all i get back from them, but without awareness of a problem, it aint getting fixed. So 4.9 EF Futura thanks for making me aware of things i already knew, but i hardly call raising a point of concern about the jobseeker program while supporting myself at uni a 'slap in the face' to the government.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by GCFordChic

In my defence here, seeing as i was the one who brought uni up i assume this was directed my way, I WASNT COMPLAINING ABOUT HECS!

Read what I said again.
1. I 'complained' that they wanna keep pushing it up, people who did the same degree a couple of years before me got it thousands of dollars cheaper.
2. I'm continually told by older people that i have it so great, well considering some got their uni for free...
3. I never complained about the system,although i think it could be better.

4.MY MAIN POINT - i have no problem paying tax, seriously i just think it is crap that even though i am getting a uni education so i aint a pimple on the backside of society later in life, i cannot get a little help from Centrelink and get a jobseeker number so i can apply for more jobs. I cannot even apply for some part-time jobs because i dont have that bloody number!
I do not get youth allowance, austudy or any welfare, i work 25 hours a week on top of 5 subjects at uni a semester, hell i know at 19 i'm unable to have kids so i wont even be getting $3000 for having kid in the future.

So, where i can voice my concern with an aspect of the Government policy i will do so. This does not mean i am oblivious to all i get back from them, but without awareness of a problem, it aint getting fixed. So 4.9 EF Futura thanks for making me aware of things i already knew, but i hardly call raising a point of concern about the jobseeker program while supporting myself at uni a 'slap in the face' to the government.

agreed 100% i think hecs fees are wrong . they werent there before . its hard enough starting out in the end what do you think medical fees are going to cost for example as professionals are going to need to recoup all these costs later in life . inflation . of course .

[4.9 EF Futura]

In response to your concerns regarding the little assistance provided to full time students under the jobs network - this policy occurs because you are not considered to be a part of the workforce.

A bit harsh - even i would conceed that.

But you have to look at the part of the population that centrelink are trying to get employed. Those people who are a) considered to be a part of the workforce and b) are not employed.

Agencies like centrelink are obviously under resourced. With good reason too - if centrelink were fully resourced to find everyone it needs to a job, thay'd probaby spend the entire 100+ billion of taxpayer's income tax on administration...

So - considering the fact that resources are scarce, would it be "right" for the government to assit a full time university student in finding a job - a job which could otherwise go to someone who is genuinely considered unemployed?

1. I 'complained' that they wanna keep pushing it up, people who did the same degree a couple of years before me got it thousands of dollars cheaper.

And i'd hazard a guess and say the cost of providing the same degree would have increased much more than the fees have. Wage increases for those dlivering the material, cost of energy to run the university and the input costs into the materials provided...

You appear to be comfortable with the concept of contributing to the cost of your education.... should you not therefore be prepared to chip in a bit more as the expense associated with providing said education increases?

2. I'm continually told by older people that i have it so great, well considering some got their uni for free...

Lol - i'm told the opposite by the older people at my work... it seems that back then someone my age rarely had to worry about debt repayments, energy shortages, and uni fees....

3. I never complained about the system,although i think it could be better.

Apologies, having read your original post i was under the impression that

Good-bye to tax returns for many years to come.

i cant get a job-searcher number to go to a job agency and get help finding a different mind-numbing job for my next 2 and a half years

WELL GIVE MY BLOODY TAX BACK!

Might have been a few minor complaints. Perhaps you can see how i came to such a conclusion... no offense was intended. For what it's worth - i spent 4 years studying full time and working part time (rent and food are good!) and have some idea what its like... altho finance probably not as taxing (excuse the pun) as law....

Originally Posted by Dan365

Gee, Its hard to make a post these days without E-mums and E-dads picking on every single quote in every paragraph

Lol - if it were just a place for people to rant without being questioned on uncertain statements and/or inaccuracies... it'd hardly be a "Forum" would it???

I think the short answer to that is would you like Bush to go around again??

Not my president. Not my system. Not my country. Let 'em elect whoever they want.

[GCFordChic]

In thinking some more about it, would would be so wrong with the federal government footing the entire bill for my university education? It would end up costing them less than if i was on welfare for the rest of my life and it means they would have an additional person earning tax for them. Was that the reasoning when university education WAS free?

I mean my brother is an Officer in the Navy, his degree was paid for, he was paid during his degree, hey even his medical costs were covered when he was in a car accident, yet all the service he is required to undertake is the equivalent of his years training plus one. ie if 5 full years training at the end of those he must stay in the Navy for 5 more years plus one, all together 11 years. 6 years after training he can bugger off with his free degree and the money he saved while getting paid full time. And i cannot get a little bloody number so i can apply for more part-time jobs so i can try to pay my HECS upfront and not be in debt with the governement.

DAMMIT i should become a legal officer... whats the defence force number again... free law degree HERE I COME!!!

Now im preparing to face some more tyrannical onslaughts :

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by GCFordChic

In thinking some more about it, would would be so wrong with the federal government footing the entire bill for my university education? It would end up costing them less than if i was on welfare for the rest of my life and it means they would have an additional person earning tax for them. Was that the reasoning when university education WAS free?

How many Tertiary students study at any one time?
Multiply that number by about $7000-$10000 and that's how much extra TAX we would all have to cover each year as a result.
It would also mean a significant increase in TAX from somewhere and probably be footed by the wrong people.
The current system puts the ownus of payment on the receiver of the benefit, i couldn't think of a fairer system, at least they get the benefit a long time before they have to pay for it.

[gtfpv]

i find this very interesting . i have mixed views . on your post . i dont really know about this situation but it is interesting to read peoples views .i'm not going to turn this one into a political thread . guess i dont know what is right on this one . but i do feel sorry for young people these days . i had it easier i think . but i dont know . people 15 years younger than me are all in the same boat . just like people my age are . hope you guys can work it all out .

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by GCFordChic

In thinking some more about it, would would be so wrong with the federal government footing the entire bill for my university education? It would end up costing them less than if i was on welfare for the rest of my life and it means they would have an additional person earning tax for them. Was that the reasoning when university education WAS free?

I mean my brother is an Officer in the Navy, his degree was paid for, he was paid during his degree, hey even his medical costs were covered when he was in a car accident, yet all the service he is required to undertake is the equivalent of his years training plus one. ie if 5 full years training at the end of those he must stay in the Navy for 5 more years plus one, all together 11 years. 6 years after training he can bugger off with his free degree and the money he saved while getting paid full time. And i cannot get a little bloody number so i can apply for more part-time jobs so i can try to pay my HECS upfront and not be in debt with the governement.

DAMMIT i should become a legal officer... whats the defence force number again... free law degree HERE I COME!!!

Now im preparing to face some more tyrannical onslaughts :

Lol. Never been referred to as a tyrant... but it's got a nice ring to it huh?

Just throwing some loose numbers around... when i attended UniSA, there was about 20,000 full time/FTE students. Back then, most HECS contributions were around the $5500 mark per annum.

To waive the HECS contributions for 1 year for those students would see a $110 million shortfall that needs to be covered. If all those students did a 3 year degree for free, that's $330,000,000 in missed HECS.

That's a fair bit of scratch. About $33 extra for every tax payer in the country. For one university to give all of its students 3 years of free university. Factor in every university in the country....

That's a pretty big wager for the government to take, based purely on the assumption that every student is going to go on to a fruitful career (yes - even the art history students!) and end up in the top marginal tax rate.

So, no - it wouldnt be "wrong" for the government to pay for all of your education - it's just be very very expensive. We all believe in principle that a free tertiary education would be nice. But i - for one - feel that the level of taxation to support such a proposal would be excessive.

Maybe if they close the jobs network and divert the funding towards tertiary education?

As for your brother - he has been rewarded for contributing to the armed forces. And so he should be!

[GCFordChic]

like i said earlier i really dont care that much, it aint changing, but gosh darnit i can have a ***** about it!

If was older and started my same degree before or in 1997, would end up costing me $14,715. I will pay $43, 841 and the poor buggers the year below my will pay about $10,000 more.

In ten years the cost of my degree (or its equivalent back then) has increased by almost 400%. I hadnt noticed inflation had gone up that much, nor the teaching salary, nor the cost of living....

BUT my main gripe wasnt about that!!!!! i was merely pointing out a fault in the system meaning a full-time student is essentially seen as not needing a job, sure ill live on a park bench and eat dirt. I dont care if a job agency doesnt help me, but alot of jobs that go through those agencies, that are advertised NEED a job searcher number otherwise you cannot apply. Part-time or casual jobs go to people who are perhaps less suitable because hardworking uni students willing to work 25 hours a week do not need a job, according to the government. I have tried to apply for many part-time jobs that i have searched through the job ads for but cannot get an interview.

I pay income tax, i buy things and pay GST, i can complain that my tax dollars are getting spent finding other people jobs, when i want a different one that i can actually stand!!!

[XRchic]

Originally Posted by Dan635

And whinge about build quality issues? Or excessive fuel consumption? I've already worn those avenues out, so Ill stick to whinging about my taxe's. :jab:

What I actually SAID was that if you are going to have a whinge about something, get your facts right and do the research! Too many people whinge about things they dont know about! I never said dont whinge! If you want to whinge about your taxes, do some research and get your facts straight so you dont make a tool of yourself!!!

Is often a good idea to read posts properly too! Avoids to tool image problem.

Originally Posted by Dan635

Furthermore ... Gee, Its hard to make a post these days without E-mums and E-dads picking on every single quote in every paragraph.

What has an E-mum or E-Dad got to do with any of this? Are you referring to the fact that I am a parent? What has that got to do with what I said? Do you think that somehow that colours my post and my opinions?

What if I told you that in addition to being a parent of 3, I am a tax lawyer and that actually KNOWING the system, is what colours my opinions and influences my posts!?

Am I qualified to have an opinion about taxes now, and question other people's inaccuracies in their posts???

Refer back to tool image issue above.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by XRchic

What I actually SAID was that if you are going to have a whinge about something, get your facts right and do the research! Too many people whinge about things they dont know about! I never said dont whinge! If you want to whinge about your taxes, do some research and get your facts straight so you dont make a tool of yourself!!!

Is often a good idea to read posts properly too! Avoids to tool image problem.


What has an E-mum or E-Dad got to do with any of this? Are you referring to the fact that I am a parent? What has that got to do with what I said? Do you think that somehow that colours my post and my opinions?

What if I told you that in addition to being a parent of 3, I am a tax lawyer and that actually KNOWING the system, is what colours my opinions and influences my posts!?

Am I qualified to have an opinion about taxes now, and question other people's inaccuracies in their posts???

Refer back to tool image issue above.

You tell him E-mum then I must be E-dad and I'll back you all the way Jac by the way thanks for your good work on my tax returns :evilking: :

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XRchic

What I actually SAID was that if you are going to have a whinge about something, get your facts right and do the research! Too many people whinge about things they dont know about! I never said dont whinge! If you want to whinge about your taxes, do some research and get your facts straight so you dont make a tool of yourself!!!

Is often a good idea to read posts properly too! Avoids to tool image problem.


What has an E-mum or E-Dad got to do with any of this? Are you referring to the fact that I am a parent? What has that got to do with what I said? Do you think that somehow that colours my post and my opinions?

What if I told you that in addition to being a parent of 3, I am a tax lawyer and that actually KNOWING the system, is what colours my opinions and influences my posts!?

Am I qualified to have an opinion about taxes now, and question other people's inaccuracies in their posts???

Refer back to tool image issue above.

Yes, exactly.
Like you say i really enjoy a good discussion or debate about anything as long as people base a position from either real life experience or knowledge from balanced research, or at the very least build a solid intelligent arguement eitherway.
There's nothing more frustrating that hearing people winge and moan about a set of circumstances when they have absolutely no idea why they REALLY exist nor do they have a basic grasp of fiscal management, the correct workings of the law or policy.
I think a discussion or debate about how our TAX's are spent ie: how the money pie is distributed would be far more challenging, rewarding or enlightening than just "why do we have to pay tax and for education".

One of my pet hates around election time is hearing why people vote one way or the other and how totally mis-informed or wayward their reasons can be for their decision.
I just wish if people have a political preference they took the time to understand exactly what they're voting for and why..

[XRchic]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

One of my pet hates around election time is hearing why people vote one way or the other and how totally mis-informed or wayward their reasons can be for their decision.
I just wish if people have a political preference they took the time to understand exactly what they're voting for and why..

Mate, you have just hit the nail on the head and it is one of the big problems I see in this country. There is too much apathy when it comes to learning about politics, law and economics in this country. But when it comes to election time, everyone has their opinion based on what their parents told them or what their grandfather did or what their mates are doing etc, not based on facts and real information. People tend to view politics and economics in their own bubble world and think that is all there is. They forget there is a bigger picture than they are experiencing. Just because someone does not experience something does not mean it is not there...

I dont think we have enough education in our schools about such matters. I think that is one of the few things in favour of living in the US - their schools drum politics into the head of the kids so that by the time they are adults, they understand a lot more than we do... your average New York bum can probably recite the Bill of Rights by heart, but here, I dont think MANY people who havnt actually studied it at university really know what our Constitution is or how the Australian political system works, let alone taxes and economics. The idea of wanting something for FREE in society, but then not wanting to pay more taxes (or at least complaining about the tax you pay) is just a failure to understand how the system works!

I very much support people having the right to whinge, complain and do whatever to get their point across and stimulate discussion. No system is ever perfect and for it to be changed and improved, there needs to be complaints, discussion and debtate, all leading to action, eventually. People who just accept things they dont like are just sheep and if everyone was like that, society would just stagnate. So PLEASE, keep whinging, keep discussing things, keep analysing our society!

Just get your facts right before you start and hopefully before you vote!

[TEaaron]

I only pay $36 in tax a week so I don't care. Lol, plus I get that all back at june 30.

[lush]

How do you manage to do that? :

[XRchic]

Originally Posted by lush

How do you manage to do that? :

Its either deductions or his taxable income is very low, same thing either way.