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#31 | |||
AFF Whore
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In between gas stations
Posts: 2,246
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#32 | ||
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 418
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Except they reduce the speed and you don't notice then you are 20 kmh over and in a lot of pain. Signs every 60 metres means constantly checking signs and camera locations moving you can easily get caught out...
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#33 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
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A fair government should realise that it isn't there to "turn a profit"or operate like a private company...it's there to provide services for the taxpayer, who gives them money to provide those services. At its simplest, the government is not a private corporation, it's a public service provider.
The obsession our governments have with surpluses makes it worse...debt is good, on a national level. If they constantly run with a huge surplus sitting there each year, it merely means they've collected too much tax the year before. A country isn't a household, and comparisons that political leaders make between the two are simply wrong. If you want to make a real comparison between a household and a country, then look at it this way: it's no good sitting back smugly with tens of thousands in the bank while the house falls down around your ears and the driveway crumbles outside..."but at least I'm keeping a good surplus!"...no, that only means you aren't spending enough on upkeep of the house. "User pays" through things like road tolls is something that should not apply at all to certain things a government should be providing and paying for...and roads are one of the biggest areas. We already pay enough through other road-related expenses, without being expected to pay to drive on the road as well through tolls. The RACQ, amongst others, over the years have done stories on how much is raised through fuel excise (no, let's call it what it is: "fuel taxes") and how miniscule a percentage of that amount is returned to road spending. One figure I recall said that if they doubled the spending on roads from something like the current 3 to 5% of the fuel taxes to 10%, it would still mean 90% of the fuel taxes are sucked into consolidated revenue, never to be seen again, but road funding would double immediately. Those who foolishly think the government isn't there to run businesses, especially in a small country like ours (we have less people than a lot of major cities overseas) should consider the Post Office...look at how well that works. No matter where you are in the country, no matter how remote, it costs the same to send a letter ten kilometers as it does a thousand kilometers. It's that way by legislation, and don't think governments of various persuasions over the decades have looked sharply in the Postal Services direction and considered how to privatise it, but find it's a "hands off" thing. Imagine if railways, roads, water supply, electricity, and other services to our piddling 22 million people were as protected as the cost of a stamp...seen as something that the government simply had to supply at a fair price to all no matter where you lived? Costs seen not as "an investment to be grown", but as a cost that just had to be born as a normal part of running a country, and not something that had to be constantly looked at as a way to make a profit and sack people to slim down departments and try and make them more like private companies than government services. Now that would be a fair way to run things... Last edited by 2011G6E; 20-02-2013 at 03:20 AM. |
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#34 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,874
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The private companies that build these toll roads don't have the cash lying around, they borrow it. Govt's should do the same and build and operate these themselves rather than signing a contract with a private company that, as suggested by another poster, often includes provisions such as shutting or restricting alternative routes thereby encouraging/forcing more motorists onto the toll road. Private companies factor in enormous profits for the construction and operation so tolls are higher than they would be under govt ownership. I would rather pay a reasonable toll to the govt than a higher toll to a private company that has been given land as part of the deal And re speed cameras in tunnels, I fully support them. A few years ago a motorcyclist was observed regularly travelling at 160km/h plus through the Sydney Harbour Tunnel in the early morning. He obscured his number plate each time and so police set up a simple operation which a mate was a part of. They got him..... ![]() Here's the link to the story ![]() http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/...594365960.html |
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#35 | ||
XD Sundowner
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: moranbah
Posts: 1,078
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Driving back from Sydney yesterday , using the GPS fastest route and I would have paid 30 odd dollars just to get to brissy , double hit because towing big boat ...no way I would use them if time wasn't an issue or the skinny Sydney spaghetti streets were better for big things...in saying that I was dam glad they were there to alleviate a lot of congestion ..the business case on the other hand is not a wise investment .
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#36 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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#37 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,874
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police then brought the issue to a head via the courts and the offender was dealt if there were no cameras he might still be doing it now |
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#38 | ||
Donating Member
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Location: Morayfield
Posts: 27,939
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I can understand the rational behind putting speed cameras in tunnels, seems fair. However it's the exact same rational used when speed vans were put on the highways in QLD. It was deemed too dangerous to pull people over for speeding.
As with all things the government do, they are prone to scope creep and now we see vans, fixed and cars all enforcing speeding on highways. As for the business case for the tunnels, I always felt it was a bit sketchy based on human nature. Why pay a toll to get there 10 minutes earlier. If you are commuting and putting your hand in your pocket to travel the tunnels you will use the surface roads unless you have a high disposable income or work is paying it.
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#39 | ||
Trev
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Was Perth, now country Vic
Posts: 8,017
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And he did all those times with no harm to himself or any other...
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#40 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 222
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#41 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Two questions: 1) During the period that this horrendous crime was being committed what was the dollar income from the speed cameras and how did these fines make the tunnels safer at the time? 2) As these cameras earn hundreds of millions of dollars every year there must be hundreds of thousands if not millions of drivers exceeding speed limits all over the country. Why is the road toll only a couple of hundred, or less than 0.0001%, of drivers fined for speeding? |
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#42 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Q..10kms west of Rocky...
Posts: 8,307
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Maybe the Police Service should change its name to Revenue Raising Service ??
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#43 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,874
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I don't know your source for road toll deaths Flappist
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In 2011 the road toll was 1,291...that's a nice way of saying dead people plus then there's all the injuries suffered by the survivors. |
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#44 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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In the same year the total number of deaths in Australia was 146,932 so the road toll is less than one percent. But this is skirting around the real issue which is: If speed cameras save lives why is the road toll about the same per driver in all states regardless of how many speed cameras are deployed and if speed is the problem then why, when millions of speeding fines are issued each year does the road not get safer? Now as this is a QLD thread I have another observation. Cooroy to Curra is one the the worst black spots in the state with hundreds of fatalities over the years. The majority of these fatalities have been head ons where a vehicle has drifted over to the wrong side of the road or has hit another vehicle emerging from the plethora of small often difficult to see intersections. It used to be 100 km/h. It was dropped to 90km/h but the accidents just kept happening. Some areas were dropped to 80km/h and guess what, the accidents kept happening. The road was separated into single lanes with a very wide centre line and overtaking prohibited outright other than the 4 lane short overtaking zones and surprise, surprise, the accidents kept happening. Rather than wait for the inevetable "prove it wil a link" troll to pop up just google "accident gympie". The road is gradually being upgraded to a 4 lane separated freeway similar to Cooroy to Caboolture but without the insanely stupid "emergency U turn" spots deliberatly put there by previous public servants to prevent the 130 speed limit being applied and late last year the first section, Sankeys to Traveston, was opened but was only limited to 100 instead of 110 as originally stated when it was started. I drive this road regulary and cannot remember the last time I travelled on it without seeing at least one speed camera or LIDAR. It is interesting to note that the only places the speed cameras or LIDAR operate are on the new freeway or the various 4 lane overtaking zones which are not the dangerous bits. I suspect they were just not making enough money enforcng the dangerous bits as drivers were not exceeding the number on the sign as it was DANGEROUS. But getting back to how all this ties into the tunnels going broke. I believe that the people of Queensland are suffering from "road tax" fatigue. More tolls, more speed cameras, highest rego in the country, fuel subsidy stopped yet crap roads and long distances. People are not silly. It is easy to avoid paying the tunnel tax by just not using the tunnel and it is easy to go as fast as you feel safe by just avoiding the main roads as due to the focus on revenue all of the enforcement is situated where they can issue the most fines........ |
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#45 | ||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,561
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Brisbane tunnel goes broke....don't worry your government will still charge a toll and every person living in Queensland will make up the short fall through indirect taxes....
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#46 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
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The road toll is the lowest for nearly sixty years...something the public won't see shouted from the rooftops any time soon unfortunately...
http://www.minister.infrastructure.g...K001_2011.aspx http://www.caradvice.com.au/156631/a...st-since-1946/ We had a campaign in Queensland last year to "beat 300" (road deaths). There was much wailing and nashing of teeth about the "massive" number of deaths, and how "drivers just won't listen!!". Sometime back in the early nineties, in Queensland we had another road toll catchy slogan..."Stay Alive, Beat 515"...the road toll from the year before. The roads are getting safer, drivers are getting better, but no one wants to admit it... |
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#47 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Australia
Posts: 2,149
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More like...
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#48 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,874
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#49 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 2,252
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The other thing I have noticed is how bad the Australian drivers are. I'm not talking michael schumaker type skills but Courtesy, patience, respect and observation. Most of them don't know whats going on around them, or care and if they do they will take advantage of any opportunity irrespective of who else is there or in the right...Then theirs the c...nts who will abuse you for the type of car you choose to drive. Very poor on all counts JP |
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#50 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 300
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i just got stung with a toll-bill, for failing to pay the toll one day 2 weeks ago. My beeper has failed, or so it seems, and didnt beep through the toll. I now have to pay the bill which is the cost of the toll + the admin fee (which is ~$8) by the due date (in 2 weeks) and failing that it will be a $140 bill.
Now what really annoys me, i don't normally drive this section of the road but so happened to be on it (gateway/logan motorway stretch in brissy) and found that the signage was very poor and i almost didn't know i was going through a toll point until right upon it. I also have to figure out why my stupid e-toll tag beeper wasn't working. How did we build all our infastructure in the 50 year period between 1940's-1990's? It saeems today we have to scrape for every metre of road/tunnel/bridge, yet the taxes payed would be at a record level due to the increase in population. The majority of our roadways, infustructure, dams, railways was all built 50 years ago... how did we afford it then?
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#51 | |||
Central to all beach's
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,653
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#52 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,292
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surely, the government would be obligated to either close it down or forced to modify it to make it safe enough to remove all those cameras. people should insist on this happening. In the meantime I like a lot of other drivers will be avoiding them, this is the best way to send a message to bureaucrats that see motorists as cash cows to be toyed with. Last edited by jpd80; 20-02-2013 at 09:24 PM. |
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#53 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,161
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One factor in these private toll roads failing is that car use in cities has been declining for years:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/be...709-1h7zq.html So the traffic forecasts don't materialise. Public transport use, particularly trains, has been growing fast on the other hand - but getting overcrowded. The investment is being poured into the wrong transport mode considering the general trend. Sounds like a complete fiasco, now two in Brisbane, two in Sydney: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-2...fiasco/4529088 |
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#54 | |||||
Life begins at 40
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Location: Melbourne. Socialist capital of Victoriastan.
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And I forgot to mention, the motorcycle rider was killed seven times and the decaying corpse was ordered to pay a $716 plus court costs.
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#55 | ||||
Life begins at 40
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Location: Melbourne. Socialist capital of Victoriastan.
Posts: 3,715
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Justice is what you get when you run out of money.
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#56 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Tablelands. NSW
Posts: 894
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Last edited by Olbucko; 21-02-2013 at 12:02 PM. |
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#57 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,161
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Hang on, I think I've forgotten to take my longevity pill today ![]() Will there still be cars in 2048 or will we be teleporting - or just working from home? |
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#58 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Q..10kms west of Rocky...
Posts: 8,307
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No, you will engage the flux capacitor and then select warp drive and be in Sydney in 5 minutes from Melbourne !!
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CSGhia |
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#59 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,125
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Seriously, why should I pay near $50k in tax a year, plus rego costs, fuel taxes, etc... Only to be charged to drive on a road, any road, anywhere in Australia.
I don't regularly drive on roads where a toll road is present, but whenever I do I am sure to hit "avoid tolls" on the GPS. In 90% of cases, the estimated time is less than 5 minutes extra. Last time I was a passenger in a car going through a toll road M5 I believe it was, we were in traffic jam conditions and had to pay a $5 toll, nice! |
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#60 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Q..10kms west of Rocky...
Posts: 8,307
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Legal action over the traffic estimates for the first of Brisbane’s two toll tunnels to go into receivership is set to return to court.
Maurice Blackburn Lawyers is representing 800 RiverCity Motorway investors hoping to recover losses of more than $150 million from the firm which prepared the traffic forecasts for the Clem7. The tunnel, which goes under the Brisbane River from Buranda to Bowen Hills, went into receivership in February 2011. The Airport Link followed suit on Tuesday. On Friday, representatives from Maurice Blackburn Lawyers, which began the Clem7 court action in May 2012, will appear in a Sydney Federal Court for a directions hearing. Advertisement Engineering consultants, Maunsells, predicted the Clem7 would open with about 60,000 vehicles a day, and would carry an average daily volume of 100,000 vehicles by 2012. The tunnel, which in December carried about 26,711 vehicles a day, has carried about 25 per cent of the volume predicted since it opened in 2010 and the tolls were introduced. Maunsells merged with AECOM in 2009, and Maurice Blackburn Lawyers argues the company's traffic forecasts for RiverCity’s ill-fated Clem7 were inaccurate. It says AECOM failed to reveal earlier traffic forecasts the consultant had developed for Brisbane City Council which produced traffic volumes substantially below those in the product disclosure statement. In November 2009 Fairfax Media reported concerns a discrepancy amounting to 50,000 vehicles per day between two sets of traffic projections for the Clem7 tunnel. Meanwhile a spokesman for McGrath Nichol, which on Tuesday appointed administrators for Airport Link, said it was "too early" to say if legal action would be taken against Arup, which prepared traffic estimates for the tunnel. In 2008, the company predicted 138,885 vehicles would use the tunnel daily after it had been opened for a month. It forecast that after 15 months, 195,378 vehicles a day would use the tunnel. The company last night declined to comment on its traffic projections. The latest traffic figures show an average of 47,802 vehicles use the 6.7 kilometre Airport Link each day. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...220-2erse.html
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CSGhia Last edited by csv8; 21-02-2013 at 01:42 PM. Reason: add link |
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