![]() |
|
Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated. |
|
The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
![]() |
#31 | |||
Beautiful in Black
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Glenmore Park NSW
Posts: 93
|
Quote:
__________________
Current Ride:
FG FPV F6 Ute #308 My Ford heritige prior to the FPV: BA MkII Classic | AUII S Pack | EL Futura |EFII Classic XF Fairmont Ghia | XE S Pack |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#32 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 400
|
How many km's a year do you do?
As stated in the article, if you are doing under 25,000 km's you will not be impacted. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#33 | ||
Beautiful in Black
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Glenmore Park NSW
Posts: 93
|
i do about 27,000kms p.a. - have been doing it consistantly for 10 years - that isn't gonna change just bcos the tax rate does :/
the idiotic thing is, for many people 25,000kms is the thresehold, below that & it's not worth leasing, whereas over 25,000kms & it is (not bcos of the kms, but because the FBT rate goes from 20% to 11% once you get over 25,000kms annually) but moving everyone to a blanket 20% is going to make it less cost effective (or boarderline at best) for the vast majority & these things are contractual arrangements, it's ridiculous that they can make such a significant change with affects contracts which u can't get out of* *without significant financial impact
__________________
Current Ride:
FG FPV F6 Ute #308 My Ford heritige prior to the FPV: BA MkII Classic | AUII S Pack | EL Futura |EFII Classic XF Fairmont Ghia | XE S Pack |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#34 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
|
"The change - which was recommended in the Henry tax review - could be sold by the government as one to conserve fuel and save taxpayer dollars."
If it is being positioned as above then get rid of the diesel fuel / subsidy tax rebate for the mining companies etc then. That is several hundred million a year in money gifted to those conglomerates.
__________________
BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#35 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,021
|
It would depend on your contract really, this would come close to being considered as contract frustration - hell I would well and truly argue this if this comes in!
see for example the case of Krell v Henry HPH 736 which is, the court taking the most liberal view of the operation of the doctrine of frustration. The contract was for the hire of a room overlooking the coronation route for the coronation of King Edward VII. The coronation was cancelled because of the King’s illness. This was held by the Court to be a frustrating event. On the face of it this was just a contract to hire a room and the hiring party got what he bargained for - a room. But the Court accepted the argument of frustration with the result that he did not have to pay the balance supposedly owing under the contract. By circumstances extranous to the contracting parties, the hirer was deprived of the major benefit to be gained from the contract. I cannot really see much a of a difference if you are relying on an 11% FBT and that suddenly changed to a blanket 20%. It will an interesting case to say the least and something I will most definitely argue! |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#36 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
|
Quote:
But what would be the benefit of getting out of a contract, that is saving money under a generous FBT arrangement, but will still save money (altho less), under less beneficial FBT arrangements. The arguement the person would have to argue before the court is, they dont want to get a car pre tax (ie effectively before paying 40% Income tax), and then paying a 20% FBT tax on it, but would rather pay his 40% in Income tax, and then not paying any fringe benefits tax. The judge might allow it, but in his judgement he may call the person the biggest idiot in history. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#37 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 805
|
Quote:
(NB: this is just a very high level explanation Im aware that there are other things that affect the benefit).
__________________
FGF6 Vic Number Plates for sale! PM if interested. FGX XR8, Auto, Black. ![]() WG Fiesta ST Manual, Black. ![]() |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#38 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,021
|
yeh mate haha if you re-read what I meant (although did not articulate well), I was saying there is not much of a difference between the two cases (ie both are deprived of a major intended benefit (not watching the king but still getting your room and not getting the 11% but still having a car).
hope that it explains it champ |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#39 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,021
|
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#40 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,536
|
This truely sucks. We have been looking at the Mrs salary sacrificing on a new xr5, may have to take a long hard look
at this now as I think we would be worse off if the sums I have just worked out are correct. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#41 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,277
|
Quote:
That's where a lot of novated leases would fall over because the burden of proof lies with the one claiming deductions, be they pre tax or post tax.... |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#42 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,021
|
no there seems to be a fundimental misunderstanding on this forum at times.
There are two perfrectly legal ways of a a company self-assessing the FBT value of a car provided to an employee. The statutory method (which is by far the easiest) which is dependant upon total kilometres travelled by the car irrespective of whether they are business or private. You ascertain the tax base cost of the car (which does not change for the entire term the car is kept - ie no depreciation), work out kilometres, this gives the FBT bracket and a corresponding percentrage. Take off any after tax payments the employee has made, gross it up (multiply the residual by 2.015864.. then multiply that by 46.5% and hey presto you have the FBT payable each year. The other method which is not dependant upon total kilometres travelled but rather the proportion of business travel as to total kilometres travelled is the Operating Cost method (or log book method). This has its benefits and is what I have just decided to use. You have to keep a logbook for 12 weeks of each year to work out business use as a percentage of total use. In year 1 you take the base cost of car (car cost including dealer delivery (exlcuding rego/stamp/insurance etc), plus GST plus LCT if applicable) and apply the depreciation allowance (18.05% I think) to get a depreciation cost. [eg $10k car, depreciation cost if $1,805]. Then you apply the statutory interest factor (7.85%) to the deprciation cost to get the deemed interest and add that to the depreciation cost. [on above example, 7.85% x $1,805 = $141.69] Then you add running costs - fuel, insurance, rego etc incurred during the year. This gives you a total. You then multiply it by the percentage ofbusiness use, minus any employee after tax expenditure on the vehicle, gross it up (multiply it by the 2.015....) multiply it by 46.5% and this gives you the FBT value for the year. This is the best way of doing it when you use a company supplied vehicle for business travel but dont do a lot of kilometers. This method will NOT be affected by the changes the Government is making to the other statutory method. In the next year it gets better because the starting base cost of the car is the original starting cost LESS the depreciation value left over from last year(ie inthe above example $10,000 less $1,805 or $8,195) , from which you then use to obtained deemed depreciation (multiply the depreciated value x statutory allowance (ie multiply $8,195 x 18.05% = $1,479), then get the deemed interest ($1,479 x 7.85%) etc so each year the FBT gets lower. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#43 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
|
http://www.caradvice.com.au/117706/a...of-lease-cars/
Quote:
__________________
Daniel |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#44 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sydney/Singapore
Posts: 70
|
More taxes to be wasted by these fools in Canberra. Had enough of federal and state taxes long ago. Moved my business (and jobs) to Singapore. No silly FBT, very low company and personal tax, 7% GST, etc. A heap of bureaucrats running around in Canberra chasing all sorts of taxes rather than doing anything productive. Miss my XR6T though so I might ship it over!
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#45 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 194
|
They seem to line the their own pockets yet cut the guys out of everyone else. What happened to putting people in charge who had an idea how to run a country? Lucky my lease finished a while back. I would be seeking legal advise if I still had a lease.
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#46 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,277
|
Well, it looks like this debate isn't going to go away, while it could save up to $1 billion over four years,
removal of FBT concessions on vehicles could have unintended consequences for people who genuinely do lots of kilometres that are work related, will we see those people and tradesman pushed back into standard vehicle claims based on mileage and actual business use calculations? Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#47 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 584
|
Great....... I do 1000km a week commute on a novated lease. This change will have a negative effect on my take home. 29 months left on the lease.
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#48 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,021
|
Change to log book method now
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#49 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,013
|
is anyone on the employee contribution method? all i know is i keep paying money into my lease and it comes back to me for spending as my fbt is reduced to 0. does that mean there will be no change except i have to contribute more? im on the 25,000km backet atm thanks.
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#50 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,633
|
Still confused as this is the first ive heard (listened) about this. Wifes ute is leased through work. We easily do over 25,000 but this is including personal use .. Without it the figure would be more like 19,000-20,000. We'll need to discuss with the leasing company after the budget.
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#51 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ACT
Posts: 11,647
|
Quote:
I'm waiting for the day as well. Would love to lease a bike. But as a Public Servant, bikes are out unfortunatley.
__________________
FG2 XR6T KIA Cerato 2022 Kawasaki Z900
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#52 | |||
No longer a Uni student..
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Posts: 2,557
|
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#53 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,860
|
If they do change the FBT to a flat rate of 20% watch the number of new cars sold in the first year fall for the first time in quite a few years. It will hurt the car industry.
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#54 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,860
|
Quote:
Last edited by Trendseeker; 08-05-2011 at 10:27 PM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#55 | |||
XD Sundowner
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: moranbah
Posts: 1,078
|
Quote:
these perks were put in place for big companies , as sweeteners for business. for those paying huge tax , and employing hundreds . not sure how many stabs the government thinks they can take at these big companies before the business case is not justified, and they shut shop , along with the wealth they create for the country . seems like our government has a spendingproblem car sales will plummet without question
__________________
something old something blue |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#56 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,021
|
I don't understand,if you genuinely use your car for business travel then JUST CHANGE TO LOGBOOK METHOD!
As long as your business v private is more it will still work. The more business the better, if you can get to approx 70 percent business that is roughly equal to 11% (or 25,000 to 40000km bracket). I painstakingly set out the workings earlier in this thread and it is on the ato site too. Let's not panic just yet however if you lease and do no business kilometers but drove heaps privately and were in the 25,000 plus bracket then leasing MAY longer work for you if going from 11% to 20% FBT bracket negates the benefit of leasing for you. Best advice is take 10 mins and work it through. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#57 | ||
XD Sundowner
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: moranbah
Posts: 1,078
|
Hey mate dont yell , I don't use my car for work , that's just to get there , all private .I work with around 500 people ,who all lease .take away the benefit or ability to lease and I'm sure new car sales will drop dramatically.another kick in the but for the high tax payer ,
__________________
something old something blue |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#58 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,021
|
understand that mate but to be fair, this was never the intention of the legislation. Private usage should not be a tax deduction which is effectively what is claimed if there is no business use.
In saying that, surely there is somewhere that is work related close to where you live that you can go to before carrying onto your main place of work ![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#59 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
|
Quote:
It has nothing to do with the intention of the legislation. There is nothing wrong or illegal with a 100% private use novated lease. Tax Office employees are able to lease cars through work for purely private use. I came very close to leasing my car, I would be quite annoyed if I had and they made this change. I assume they will grandfather the current leases out, so it only applies to new leases started after July 1? |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#60 | |||
XD Sundowner
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: moranbah
Posts: 1,078
|
Quote:
I need a km burner , most of the mining industry does . I'm actually 1 of the lower km people I work with , many with 1000 k 1 way trips .its only a perk cause I get a tax break , a car I really don't need if I moved back to normal job / town . these companies do deals with the government jobs in return for tax breaks . the employee gets to share some benefits which are not that big really
__________________
something old something blue |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |