History repeating itself...

[JC]

Originally Posted by onfire

I think even with all this, I'd still always drive a 6 cylinder. Something about a smaller car, I don't like. It's not at all trying to sound tough, something about a 4 cylinder doesn't work for me.

I need that consistent power supply, even if I don't use it.

I have just been through 2 weeks of test driving several 4 cyl lancers (not bad, but the CVT did my head in - no gear changes!), Hyundai i30 (no guts), FG XR6 - great, but why would I get rid of a perfectly good AU XR8 for that?), and eventually the Mitsubishi 380 VRX. I have signed the lease for the VRX - it has power, decent economy, is big enough to take the 3 booster seats for the kids, and as a lease car (and a Mitsu) I won't be too tempted to mod it!

The way of the future is probably hybrid, but until they find a cheaper way to make batteries, and a way for the batteries to last longer, I'll stick with petrol or LPG for the minute ($15k battery replacement after 10 years doesn't sound like a bargain to me). I don't think the diesel sums work out - especially given the $5k+ premium you pay for the diesel version of most diesel cars.

[Ben73]

Im not a fan of small cars either.

Sure they my be cheaper to run, but that is only 1 part of the equation.

Ill pay the extra $7 a week and have a larger car. Preferably a v8 one.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I look at the "rough tough" Prado's we have a work, and since the last model with a manual gear lever to change between low and high range, they have now gone to an electronic switch on the dash. This means that there is now a switch, associated wiring, computer control, wiring to the transfer case, and some sort of multi-position solenoid actuator on the gearbox itself.
Why? So they can replace a small space on an already expansive center console where a small stubby gear lever was with a fancy button? It also has a totally unecissary push button start. They live a bit of a hard life out here, and are already showing problems, but even in the most careful of hands, I'd hate to see one of these in ten years time...

These are not great at all. We have them at work and I think the previous model was much better.
They are nothing special for their price they cost.

Push button start is a pain in the *** and unnecessary. Thanks to having no key 2 nights ago I got out of one and left the engine running. Another guy took the car and drove back to the depot, I then got on a train and travlled 300kms away to realize I still had the car 'key' in my pocket. So once the guys got the car back to the depot and shut off the engine they realized there was no key and they couldn't start it or lock it.
If there was a key this never would of happened.

[onfire]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

"Consistant power supply" is something that modern turbo four cylinders also have. Gone are the old "slap on a aftermarket Garrett and hope it all works" home made jobs or low-volume ones with hopeless lag and peaky boost. Modern turbos, if done well, are like the perfect butler...the job gets done without you noticing they are there.

I also like the space, the size and the feeling of driving a large sedan.

[Trek]

Originally Posted by onfire

I also like the space, the size and the feeling of driving a large sedan.

This is what seals the deal for me, too. I can't see myself wanting to compromise on any of this, any time soon.

The costs between a 'small car' and a 'large car' are still all too negligible to even consider the switch in the first place, as said.

The detail I miss the most, however is that cars have lackluster interiors these days. Oh-so-sterile and flat-out boring grey or black... that, to me, is NOT a car, but just 'transport'. Even the XF had a decent range to its interior, when compared to the cars of today.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by onfire

I think even with all this, I'd still always drive a 6 cylinder. Something about a smaller car, I don't like. It's not at all trying to sound tough, something about a 4 cylinder doesn't work for me.

I need that consistent power supply, even if I don't use it.

One thing to remember, the current N/A I6 develops more power than the majority of Ford V8s up until the BOSS.

(n.b. I said majority not all)

Most people here have actually never driven a pre 2000 Ford V8 when it was new, other that a few GTs (and not all of them) they were VERY underwhelming......

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

So yes, modern cars are amazingly fuel efficient, powerful, and reliable. Now. But they simply aren't built to be sitting in the shed in thirty years time still giving sterling service. That's probably one area we had it better "in the old days".

Fair point, but how many XB Falcons were still on the road after twenty years? Bugger all electronics in them.

[davez104]

Originally Posted by onfire

I also like the space, the size and the feeling of driving a large sedan.

This too. Small cars might be all well and good cutting through traffic in the city but when you're racking up 40,000+ kms per year of mostly highway miles, nothing beats a decent sized car to eat up the miles. I can also hook my boat up and drag it for 400+ km drive to the ramp without worrying about destroying drivetrains or having to hold it flat all the way. Big cars for me all the way.

[Polyal]

Well in our case the Barina is honestly used as a shopping cart, or just zipping down the street. It makes perfect sense if it's only a couple of people on a short trip.

But for my uni commute (200km round trip) I use my ford, it's a better cruiser, costs the same if not less to run with it's top notch LPG system and it's not revving it's head off while I sit on 110.

They are not new cars but the principle I'd the same....there is literally no room in the back once two baby seats are in too..the falcon we can still fit one adult in the back.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Well theres no way youll get me in a small car,no matter how cheap they are or become
I need something that pulls my trailer (it wieghs 700KG empty)
There aint no 4 banger out there thatll pull it empty let alone full

how about a turbo diesel four banger? 1750kg in my wife's...

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Im not a fan of small cars either.

Sure they my be cheaper to run, but that is only 1 part of the equation.

Ill pay the extra $7 a week and have a larger car. Preferably a v8 one.




These are not great at all. We have them at work and I think the previous model was much better.
They are nothing special for their price they cost.

Push button start is a pain in the *** and unnecessary. Thanks to having no key 2 nights ago I got out of one and left the engine running. Another guy took the car and drove back to the depot, I then got on a train and travlled 300kms away to realize I still had the car 'key' in my pocket. So once the guys got the car back to the depot and shut off the engine they realized there was no key and they couldn't start it or lock it.
If there was a key this never would of happened.

so the high pitch alarm and the flashing light failed .. or ?

but back on subject , i dont think it is even a concideration of manufacturers today to make a car last 30 years ... and if an older vehicle was not meticuously maintained then it wont last 30 either .Running costs are becoming a real issue again (just like the eighties ) where are we heading ... not sure from what i see though , is almost every manufacturer seems to be having a go at sustainable products ...

all i know or hazard to guess is the company who gets it right will be the next superpower in sales , those that sit on their hands now ( with dying fuel reserves) will fade into the ground much faster than before , when there was much less to choose from ..

I personally am looking at ways to reduce the spiraling overheads of modern living , lower speed internet plans , phone useage ,gave up television to the point i only watch the news if im lucky .anyway the point is i believe most economies in the world are under strain and im setting myself up for the down turn ... if that means 4 cylinder runabout then so be it , if it keeps my pride and joys in my garage then i win

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ford dropped the V8 for 2 reasons.

1) They were running out of clevos and had no easy replacement
2) Nobody was buying V8s anyway, even Holden dropped theirs but as they were using an internally sourced product they just limped along.

If there is a drop in sales of the current V8 due to whatever reason and it becomes unprofitable to offer a V8 model(s) then they will drop it again.

So don't put them in a position where they even think about it. GO OUT AND BUY A NEW FPV V8.........

In the XD range V8's only made up 5% of sales, in the XB's it was 30%.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

In the XD range V8's only made up 5% of sales, in the XB's it was 30%.

But when the XB was new kids could buy cigarettes, semi auto guns were sold in K-Mart, there was no such thing as alcopops or light beer, the BAC limit was 0.08, coppers could actually "sort out" young criminals and road safety was about saving lives not raising revenue.

The world changes...........

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by flappist

But when the XB was new kids could buy cigarettes, semi auto guns were sold in K-Mart, there was no such thing as alcopops or light beer, the BAC limit was 0.08, coppers could actually "sort out" young criminals and road safety was about saving lives not raising revenue.

The world changes...........

How true

[burnz]

Originally Posted by flappist

But when the XB was new kids could buy cigarettes, semi auto guns were sold in K-Mart, there was no such thing as alcopops or light beer, the BAC limit was 0.08, coppers could actually "sort out" young criminals and road safety was about saving lives not raising revenue.

The world changes...........

americas version of Kmart..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUJfkaczxlI

[Dreama]

i like the old XA/XB Falcon Wagon advert on youtube, shows i think about 8 people sitting in it. 3 in the front, 3 in the middle and then in the rear is i think it was 2 seats facing back! talk about a family people mover!

[302 XC]

bOson,
Yeah probably rite to a point
The 4 banger Nissan patrols will probably pull my trailer even loaded
But how reliable are they ???
The early 3.0L patrols go bang on a near daily occurance
They put out (on paper) the same if not more power than the larger 6s
But they aint reliable
To me its not about buying new
Selling in 3 or 4 years time at a what 30-50% depretiation
(Thats a good investment)
Then buying new again
Just cause i can

Older cars were mass produced to do a job,not produce whopping HP on paper
I could guarentee i could wheel the XC outta the shed
(About 400K showing)
Give it a quick service and drive around australia tomorrow
Sitting on the legal limit (which its quite capabale of,like anything else)
Itll get there, use alot more fuel than a 4 banger
But couldnt really see a smaller,later model engine doin the same in 30 years time

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ford had WAY better marketing back then,

We think Ford's marketing is pretty poor atm, and while i agree, have you seen the ads for the new mini?

[RedHotGT]

Marketing is stronger than you think when it comes to selling cars...

I was one of the lucky few who got to meet the great Jim Wangers - who was the godfather of the GTO and the guy who basically made muscle cars SELL in the mid 1960s...
http://www.geetotiger.com/JimWangers.htm

He explained that marketing is exactly what makes or breaks cars... and it nearly has nothing to do with their physical attributes...

Car manufacturers have been selling rubbish cars for years and years...
And have also struggled to sell great cars... due to poor marketing...

I am not sure if FPV's angle with Moffat will be a winner (given the anti-hoon government we have running the place) and speaking of history repeating itself... all I can see on the horizon is the 'Supercar Scare' all over again...

As for small cars taking over?? They won't help me carry my 4 kids.... they won't tow the car trailer... they won't have a buyer in me...

If you really want to enjoy driving... buy a 70's or 80's car and enjoy it when you can... and don't worry about the petrol prices... its not gonna cost you your home in the long run...

[chevypower]

Calling it a "cycle" is a little generous, when the actual price pattern resembles a set of stairs, moving in the upward direction.

[dave289]

Just a short history lesson about late 70's early 80's and fuel. I was born in 1970, I can remember when I was in primary school cars would be lined up about a kilometre down the road ,lined up to get fuel. There was obviuosly a shortage of fuel a few times and I can remember at one time on certain days you could only get fuel on monday for example if your number on your number plate was an even number and then the following day you could only get it if you had an odd number on your number plate. I have never experienced this again since primary school.

[cheap]

Here is website with a high level history of oil and the various events which have impacted the price of oil to the consumer.

http://www.wtrg.com/prices.htm

Reading the history, I have formed the view that oil like every other commodity has had price manipulation, political interference, distortions from futures markets and other events. These all impact upon its price to the consumer. If you read the website and you can see a pattern let me know what you think will happen in 2018, we'll be very wealthy men.

Unlike commodities, manufacturers build stuff and it takes years to transition from one product to the next. Automakers try to anticipate the impact from many variables, such as cost of fuel, emissions, safety and population (to name a few). Manufacturers try to have the right car for the next 10 year cycle, but often something completely out of their control wrecks their plans.

[FTE217]

yep grew up with the petrol strikes through the 70's on - thats right 289 odds and evens to fill up those days - lucky Mum's plate was evens and mine odds so the ol philip's head came out so I could fill up 2 odd times a week LOL what fun but you had to make sure not to go back to the local servo as a few other mates got pinged LOL.......
Fuel economy - never worried about it as a young fella and still don't....

[2011G6E]

I think "big cars" would sell better if "small cars" were, as in the old days, "small".

Go back to 1980...sit in a Toyota Corolla, then sit in a Commodore or Falcon (or especially a Valiant ), and you'll damn quickly see which is the car worth having if you like elbow room. There was no real "smaller car" range like Fiestas and Toyota Echos and the like back then, so for the sake of my point I'll ignore them for the moment.

Now, go to a showroom and hop in a Mondeo, then hop in a Falcon. Little bit of space difference....but certainly not as much as there used to be amongst cars of their respective target areas.

[xtremerus]

A current Corolla would have more room than a 60's EH Holden large family car.

[93EB_SXR6]

When I had my AE82 4AGE corolla, there was plenty of leg room in the front but there would have been only about 5-10cm leg room in the back (not kidding, being serious).
I have reason to believe it was made for amputees.

[1TUFFUTE]

tge way i see it there is no use going on about what you prefer here...the stats show smaller cars are onthe rise and larger are not...so your opinion is very minority..fact. I think as long as they can keep these new small very good tech engines in the bigger cars they will survive...but as soon as they start putting the same tech...like what ford are doing with the mondeo and the eco engines...this is what makes it very hard for larger cars to boom. im sure there will always be a market for large cars tho...espescially in an open country. Its just the economy and engine sizes that wll change and perhaps be compromised.....

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

A current Corolla would have more room than a 60's EH Holden large family car.

You are being generous in your description of the EH ;-)

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

You are being generous in your description of the EH ;-)

It was "large"....for the time. Morris Minors like my old '57 were seen as a perfectly acceptable "family" car from the fifties to the sixties, as were things like VW Beetles, Hillman Minx's, and other cars that nowadays we would giggle at for lack of amenities. Holdens and Falcons were a revolution. The only other "big" cars a the time were expensive American imports like the odd Chev or Studebaker or Rambler, or things like English Ford Zephyrs.

As car sizes increased, so did the public's expectation of size and space in each model. Then the fuel crisis hit and people ditched the big cars and got Corollas and smaller cars, and the introduction of ADR-27A (anti-pollution devices) in 1976 killed fuel consumption and power output like an axe. If you look at car magazines from the late seventies after ADR27A came in, you will notice something odd...they stop quoting power figures in the list of "new vehicles" from all the manufacturers in the back. They sometimes didn't even quote fuel consumption...they knew what it had done to economy and, especially, power. People moved away again from larger cars and into smaller ones.

A fine example of how ordinary cars have grown in size is to see a VB Commodore parked beside a new VE.

[xtremerus]

My point is that yesteryears large family cars are the size of todays small cars

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

One thing to remember, the current N/A I6 develops more power than the majority of Ford V8s up until the BOSS.

(n.b. I said majority not all)

Most people here have actually never driven a pre 2000 Ford V8 when it was new, other that a few GTs (and not all of them) they were VERY underwhelming......

I had a near new XD 5.8 Fairmont back in 1983, it was a nice enough and
powerful car and gave a best of 14 litres/100 km if I feathered it at 100 kph.

By comparison, my current R6 ute is probably 400 kg heavier yet I'm sure
that it would have almost identical performance as the 5.8 and FMX but
absolutely kills it for fuel economy even with a 5R auto and best of 8.2 l/100 km