Global platforms are the only way forward

[Cobra]

If the Falcon was to die in 2013, it would be sad that the last 3 years of it's life it had to have a V6 in it. If the V6 is an absolute ripper, and comes with a TT V6, then it would be almost bearable, but if the V6 was a POS would be like rubbing salt into the wounds.

Whatever happens, whatever vehicles we end up getting, once thing is for certain, there will always be need for a performance variant. Whether that performance variant is anything like we want/are used to is still up in the air at the moment.

One thing is for sure, if the current F6 with the last of the Geelong built straight 6 isn't worth jack in 20+ years time, those who remember it in it's glory days will have a memory etched in their brain of the last and greatest all Aussie built car of all time, and the sentimental value will be priceless.

[GTENVY]

[QUOTE=OZQUAD44]Unfortunatly I have to aggree.

Why can't the Mustang and the Falcon be exactly the same under the bodywork. From all accounts, late model falcons handle better as it is. Yet a whole team is dedicated to making Mustang suspension systems. Kill two birds with one stone.

I totally agree, isn't this what Motor mag and wheels mag have been saying for the last 5-6 years!!

Wake up Ford!!!

[BENT_8]

I cant believe this is still an issue, some need to let go and move on.

As for all this crap about FWD v's RWD V's AWD on the track blah blah blah...FFS, we are talking about mass produced family affordable motoring, not the weapon of choice for a handful of speed junkies who still haven't passed puberty and think a fast car is a way of impressin' the chicks.

Theres nothing wrong with a FWD mondeo sized car if it's intended purpose is to simply cart around two adults and 2 kids.

You want a race car, build one!

[GS608]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I cant believe this is still an issue, some need to let go and move on.

As for all this crap about FWD v's RWD V's AWD on the track blah blah blah...FFS, we are talking about mass produced family affordable motoring, not the weapon of choice for a handful of speed junkies who still haven't passed puberty and think a fast car is a way of impressin' the chicks.

Theres nothing wrong with a FWD mondeo sized car if it's intended purpose is to simply cart around two adults and 2 kids.

You want a race car, build one!

Do you understand the benefits of having a large car with RWD over FWD?

RWD is the foundation of all things motoring, do you see a FWD motorbike? or what about a FWD truck? no? well theres a good reason for that.

there is no way on earth that a FWD Falcon will do any good! Hardly anyone has taken to the Aurion, wonder why that is? FWD+Large Car+V6 = Sh!tbox

plenty of people are still buying RWD cars, Ford will encounter a ton of problems with sales if they decide to go the FWD route, so would Holden if they chose the same fate for the commy.

You go get an Aurion and a Falcon or Commodore and try tow a boat or trailer and see which one handles the job better. Go for a cruise see which one is more comfortable to drive, you can guarantee the answer won't be the Toyota

[The Stylist]

As long as there is a business case for the ute, then the RWD Falcon won't be going any where soon.

The last thing the auto industry needs are rumours like these in todays economic climate.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

Do you understand the benefits of having a large car with RWD over FWD?

RWD is the foundation of all things motoring, do you see a FWD motorbike? or what about a FWD truck? no? well theres a good reason for that.

You obviously cant understand that a 200kw+ large family sedan in the current economic climate is surplus to most peoples needs, IMO the future of family motoring is mid sized cars or people mover's such as Terri which can carry larger families and do all the towing WHEN required.
I think by 2012 Ford should be able to knock together a mid sized car that could pull average joes 6x4 trailer, 15ft tinny etc. better than an 80's Telstar.

Steam engines were the foundation af all things motoring, we now use petrol, gas, electricity,diesal and god knows what else in an internal combustion engine....refer to my first line in my previous post.

[Bossxr8]

The 2013 Falcon will be a RHD Taurus imported from the US with Falcon badges on it, and the Territory will be the Taurus X with Territory badges on it. The way I see it its pretty much a done deal. Ford Australia are finished in 2013. Why do you think the place is being stripped bit by bit now? Also why do you think they have started talk of a FWD Falcon? Its because they want people to get used to the idea when it happens in 2013 with a rebadged imported Taurus.

There was a chance that the Global RWD platform may have saved it but recent sales numbers, future CAFE requirements in the US and the global recession has put the final nail in its coffin. Buy one while you still can.

Damn shame, so many years of history about to be flushed down the drain because of the selfishness and pigheadedness of Detroit, unwilling to accept a greater product to protect their own piece of garbage.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by The Stylist

As long as there is a business case for the ute, then the RWD Falcon won't be going any where soon.

The last thing the auto industry needs are rumours like these in todays economic climate.

The Ranger now outsells the Falcon Ute, so the business case of a Falcon ute is less and less.
It it had a petrol 4cly and V6 it would be selling alot more also.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The 2013 Falcon will be a RHD Taurus imported from the US with Falcon badges on it

I can't see how this will happen. There won’t be enough volume to justify RHD conversion will there?
Obviously they will try to rebadged something with the Falcon name for about 6 weeks till they realise everyone, with the notable exception of Bent 8 and 9.1% of his fellow friends, have left the building. For approx 1500 units a month I can’t see a business case for any right hook conversions.
I maintain Ford will inevitably leave the large car segment in this country altogether.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by HSE2

I can't see how this will happen. There won’t be enough volume to justify RHD conversion will there?
Obviously they will try to rebadged something with the Falcon name for about 6 weeks till they realise everyone, with the notable exception of Bent 8 and 9.1% of his fellow friends, have left the building. For approx 1500 units a month I can’t see a business case for any right hook conversions.
I maintain Ford will inevitably leave the large car segment in this country altogether.

There's plenty of other markets the Taurus can go to in RHD.

[XR Martin]

Be easier to encourage Ford to put a V6 into a Mondeo

[Sprint XR8]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081006....ford-taurus-st Here's a pic of the 2010 Taurus clay.
Twin turbo ST version will be all wheel drive only.

[fmc351]

Part of this is likely related to the aging population. Id suggest the Aussie love affair with large cars is no longer true partly for that reason, baby boomers are grown up, many kids left the nest and those kids arent having as many kids.

Add to that with those kids, the variety of other options and their obvious performance characteristics has effected the perception of the alternatives. Throw in high fuel prices and a glut of ex-lease large 6's and theres a recipe for disaster for large locally produced stalwarts.

Plenty of people still love them, if someone else is paying for them.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

There's plenty of other markets the Taurus can go to in RHD.

When it doesn't already. I don't think so and especially so of a market segment that is projected to become so irrelevant in years to come.

The only way that will happen is if Taurus is replacing the Mondeo platform as well. The smart money will be on an existing global FWD platform and like Martin has suggested a V6 Mondeo would most likely fit the bill better than any right hand drive version of the Taurus and that applies to all RHD markets.

You could insert Mondeo into any right hand drive market far easier and more cost effectively then re engineering the left hand drive products and for Ford right now that’s the name of the game.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by coupex

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081006....ford-taurus-st Here's a pic of the 2010 Taurus clay.
Twin turbo ST version will be all wheel drive only.

Ah well there you go then. It most likely is a Mondeo or a derivative of, under the skin anyway.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Part of this is likely related to the aging population. Id suggest the Aussie love affair with large cars is no longer true partly for that reason, baby boomers are grown up, many kids left the nest and those kids arent having as many kids.

Add to that with those kids, the variety of other options and their obvious performance characteristics has effected the perception of the alternatives. Throw in high fuel prices and a glut of ex-lease large 6's and theres a recipe for disaster for large locally produced stalwarts.

Plenty of people still love them, if someone else is paying for them.

The love affair for large vehicles is still there, look at SUV sales. Despite dropping large car sales, they have consistently increased sales.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by Serial_Fool

If global trends continue...there WON'T be a large car segment.

BMW and Merc seem to have no trouble shifting their "large" cars.

You'd never see a Commodore going FWD either.

[GS608]

won't be long before FOA start to close down there aus operations

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by HSE2

When it doesn't already. I don't think so and especially so of a market segment that is projected to become so irrelevant in years to come.

The only way that will happen is if Taurus is replacing the Mondeo platform as well. The smart money will be on an existing global FWD platform and like Martin has suggested a V6 Mondeo would most likely fit the bill better than any right hand drive version of the Taurus and that applies to all RHD markets.

You could insert Mondeo into any right hand drive market far easier and more cost effectively then re engineering the left hand drive products and for Ford right now that’s the name of the game.

Ford America only really care about one division, and thats themselves. Its the same reason the Falcon/Territory will never be exported, they only care about saving American jobs, not some backwater plant in a foreign country.

You need to remember Fords new One Ford policy will taylor one vehicle for a number of different continents, rather than having seperate vehicles for seperate areas.

Yes, a V6 Mondeo may be possible but the Mondeo currently isn't built for a V6 and it doesn't have AWD either so a 250kw + TTV6 isn't really possible is it? And I don't think a V6 Mondeo is much of a chance either in economy conscience Europe where diesel 4 potters are king.

Time will tell but I recon the Taurus is the go, especially considering they also have the Taurus X SUV, previously the Freestyle, that could replace the Territory as well, with a family resemblence like the Falcon/Territory has. There's no SUV version of the Mondeo, the Kuga is based on the Focus.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford America only really care about one division, and thats themselves. Its the same reason the Falcon/Territory will never be exported, they only care about saving American jobs, not some backwater plant in a foreign country.

You need to remember Fords new One Ford policy will taylor one vehicle for a number of different continents, rather than having seperate vehicles for seperate areas.

Yes, a V6 Mondeo may be possible but the Mondeo currently isn't built for a V6 and it doesn't have AWD either so a 250kw + TTV6 isn't really possible is it? And I don't think a V6 Mondeo is much of a chance either in economy conscience Europe where diesel 4 potters are king.

Time will tell but I recon the Taurus is the go, especially considering they also have the Taurus X SUV, previously the Freestyle, that could replace the Territory as well, with a family resemblence like the Falcon/Territory has. There's no SUV version of the Mondeo, the Kuga is based on the Focus.

One Ford is the reason why it most likely won’t be the Taurus import.

The availability of diesel engines and wagon configurations and Fords reluctance to put both cars in the one market pretty much means that won't happen. You need to remember that one Ford also means the UK will adopt US fundamentals of the one platform. The 2013 mondeo won’t be what it is now if one Ford is actual.

Our orientation has always been towards European style anyway.

Then there is the logistics of it all. One Ford has never stated that all products would be built in one location. In fact it can’t be. Right hand drive countries will fight for the right to assemble right hand drive versions of the one platform while it’s obvious where left hand drive products will be assembled. The strength will be in the commonality of the product not where it is assembled.

If one Ford is actually true, the Taurus will actually eventuate to be a Mondeo anyway which the entire point is. By the time we change there will be AWD V6 Mondeo, along with the mandated diesel for Europe options, which we will most likely piggy back from.

One Ford is also about making sure logistical supply changes are aligned. It makes no sense or justification to duplicate right hand drive for export to European countries when the likely hood in future years is that the American dollar won’t be the currency of trade. There is also the recognised issue of American taste not being aligned with the Europeans. Its highly unlike a US design interior will fly in any other country. They talk about quality and design integrity but they are still in the early 90s in many cases

For our performance applications you could very well see the Taurus under body on a Mondeo skin allowing the feature set and European influence to harmonise with performance options for our tastes. A performance application of one Ford will be the same application across the globe for one Ford.

Remember we aren’t the only ones in this boat. It’s likely the one platform will mean in Right hand drive markets it’s called Mondeo and in left hand drive markets it’s called the Taurus. It’s highly unlikely that the two products will end up competing against one another. That’s the whole idea of one Ford. Unless one Ford means one global manufacturing hub then the economy in duplication should make right hand drive conversions out of America unworkable for the US operation. They would need to take over European markets to make that work and while that might be possible its not what One Ford is stated to be.

[Bossxr8]

Taurus is actually quite big, from what i've heard its Fairlane size. Mondeo is a medium size vehicle, even though it is quite big for that size. I think the 2 are considered seperate size vehicles, Mondeo a C class vehicle, Taurus is a D class vehicle.

Mondeo is also a 4 cylinder FWD, Taurus a V6 FWD and AWD, with an AWD SUV on the same platform. I doubt they would become one vehicle as they are in totally different classes and specifications.

This article aludes to what I have said, but Focus is gone and Ford Australia will solely be an importer, they won't assemble anything.

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/703...and-territory/

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

This article aludes to what I have said, but Focus is gone and Ford Australia will solely be an importer, they won't assemble anything.

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/703...and-territory/

This is bad !

My sources say that Focus is gone too.

If that's true FoA is gone as a manufacturer.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Taurus is actually quite big, from what i've heard its Fairlane size. Mondeo is a medium size vehicle, even though it is quite big for that size. I think the 2 are considered seperate size vehicles, Mondeo a C class vehicle, Taurus is a D class vehicle.

Mondeo is also a 4 cylinder FWD, Taurus a V6 FWD and AWD, with an AWD SUV on the same platform. I doubt they would become one vehicle as they are in totally different classes and specifications.

This article aludes to what I have said, but Focus is gone and Ford Australia will solely be an importer, they won't assemble anything.

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/703...and-territory/

No it’s not that big especially in the wheel base and certainly close enough to be in the same category under one Ford I would have thought, especially as you have rightly pointed out Mondeo is big for its class. It does appear to have sizable overhangs though but that’s likely to change

However that’s like comparing Falcon now to something that not out yet.

By the time 2013 comes around mark my words one Ford will put an end to Mondeo being what it is now. They will fall in line with the rest of the right hand drive market and I suspect you will find Focus will grow slightly.

It’s what I would do.


This is all cost driven. Unless the US can find sufficient volume in established right hand drive markets I can’t see how they will justify the conversion as an export when they barely have the money to build cars for their own market. The payback wouldn’t appear to be justifiable especially with the volatility that is in the market. It certainly wouldn’t be the safe play. The US will do what they have always done. Start something, find out its too hard, and then withdraw leaving the rest of us to our own devices.

That’s my tip anyway, but then again I still maintain that if we don’t assemble the Falcon replacement an import won't sell enough to last long anyway.

[uranium_death]

If the large car market is dying, how come there is never any negativity behind the Commodore?

What makes people flock towards the Commodore so readily, when a very healthy number of car reviewers place it behind the FG Falcon?

The papers creamed their lacy panties when the VE was released, but when the Falcon was released, it wasn't exactly first priority, and while Holden received massive praise for their "innovation", Ford raise the bar, and there is no such thing.
The FG has fantastic interior quality and safety, but most people don't know that.

It is so frustrating, as misreporting leads to perception that is absolutely incorrect.

I accept that Ford's inept marketing also did not help it, but I believe if Ford wanted the product to survive, they would have received greater support from the head office.

That is life, such as it is. Such as it is, it must go on.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

I accept that Ford's inept marketing also did not help it, but I believe if Ford wanted the product to survive, they would have received greater support from the head office.

From all reports our new president, Marin Burela, is the right man for the job. If he pulls it off he will forever be fondly remembered. Much like Uncle Geoff (Polities)

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Obviously they will try to rebadged something with the Falcon name for about 6 weeks till they realise everyone, with the notable exception of Bent 8 and 9.1% of his fellow friends, have left the building.

Have another read mate, i never said the Falcon will be replaced with a rebadged US import!!
I believe the 'Falcon' nameplate will be dropped altogether and that segment of sales will be absorbed by Mondeo type FWD as average joes hack and those who need to tow will opt for a SUV be it territory or Ranger.

[Carby]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The aerodynamics of a SUV suck - at high speed their aero efficiency is appalling using far more fuel than a nice strealined FG would, and I suppose it depends on how frequently they have to tow things if it's only occasionally then a RWD Falcon is more than adequate.

Besides, if Ford does stop making a RWD Falcon I can just see a number of Ford guys going to Holden - why wouldn't they? Many don't really care about the Holden/Ford thing - it's just whats "best" at the time, but when it's all said and done the Commodore and Falcon are so similar in size performance and other abilities, Ford would be handing the RWD market to Holden on a platter! It may be a smaller market - but you can be assured that the future generations of Commodores and Falcons (if they survive) will have far more efficient engines to keep them ecomomically viable.

[vztrt]

Well if this eventuates, I'll be looking at FG's, B-series and Tickfords for cars.
Ford wont see any of my cash for their cars as the only reason I liked the Blue oval was the Aussie designed and built cars.

Saying that I said that Ford manufacturing would be dead in 10 tears (2006)...damm off by 3 years.

[4Vman]

Even if the Falcon is dropped Ford will continue to make RWD/4WD SUV's... id buy one of those before a Holden.

[GS608]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Even if the Falcon is dropped Ford will continue to make RWD/4WD SUV's... id buy one of those before a Holden.

what about those who want a XR type car? only option is the S series from Holden