Holden, Ford at bottom of car survey

[red_hotxr6]

And after all the continued hype and blah blah blah, i love my FORD and will continue to buy/drive one. It does what i want, it performs the way i want and I am happy with it.....

[BlackLS]

I had a rental Getz in Brisbane last week. And I gave it an absolute flogging.

And you know what? They aren't a bad quality car. They're pretty gutless, it handles like a boat and the interior is fairly stark, but the build quality is very good, the steering and manual shift were smooth and direct, it had some pretty nice features ie auto lights off, power windows 20 secs after the key is out, and even after a few hundred ks of dropping the clutch, slamming the accelerator on and off in 1st, forceful clutchless shifting, there were no clunks or anything from the front end.

[DirtyHarry]

Sleekism, you really do come up with a lot of crap.

Originally Posted by sleekism

That is the cold hard fact. I have a few mates who were apprentices in Ford dealerships and they DON'T service their vehicles. Most of the time you will book in for your $300 service and it will sit in the workshop all day only occasionally taken out for a few burnouts by the apprentices. On top of that they might make up a few problems and charge you for that and book up 2 hours to change the spark plugs which of course they don't do.

Yeah riiiiight....We all know that most Ford dealers aren't real good, but as for "most" cars "sitting in the workshop all day only occasionally taken out for a few burnouts by the apprentices", geesh, give us a break.

Originally Posted by sleekism

Toyotas reputation is that after 3 years of owning your Corolla and with expensive regular servicing they have practically replaced every component in your car.

Not even worth commenting on.

Originally Posted by sleekism

I have an XE and an AU1 (supposedly the worst built Falcon)

Coming from a taxi industry perspective, I can tell you that the AUs are generally regarded in the industry as one of the best built Falcons, be they Series I, II, or III.

Originally Posted by sleekism

The same for motorbikes I only buy Suzukis because they are the most reliable.

ROFLMAO

But the quotable quotes have to be this pair:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I don't look through rose coloured glasses

and

Originally Posted by sleekism

I guarantee you any Ford problems are human related and can be fixed by cleaning up the dealer network.

[AusM]

Some more detail left off the initial story reported:
"NB: Most other manufacturers were included in the study but not ranked due to a too small sample size."

So Ford & Holden being last isn't necessarily a given, but due to a lack of numbers of some manufacturers surveyed, they got the bottom of the list. For any real credence, they need to survey more than 3000 total owners...

[RATT]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Very much true!

I think the Ford Falcon is the best built vehicle around! Want to know why?

How many vehicles can survive so long without being serviced?

That is the cold hard fact. I have a few mates who were apprentices in Ford dealerships and they DON'T service their vehicles. Most of the time you will book in for your $300 service and it will sit in the workshop all day only occasionally taken out for a few burnouts by the apprentices. On top of that they might make up a few problems and charge you for that and book up 2 hours to change the spark plugs which of course they don't do.

The difference over at the Japanese dealerships are stark. I have a mate who is an apprentice at a Toyota dealership and while the vehicles are not built any better the difference is that they replace EVERYTHING (often expensively). Toyotas reputation is that after 3 years of owning your Corolla and with expensive regular servicing they have practically replaced every component in your car.

If you service your Ford yourself or get it done by an independant mechanic then it will last forever. My parents have an XE with 800,000+ kays still original engine and transmission and this thing has done towing all over Australia.

I have an XE and an AU1 (supposedly the worst built Falcon) and these things spend their lives at the limit of mechanical tolerances and despite my best efforts my mrs still puts her foot down every morning while the cars are cold and these things don't miss a beat. The oil in my XE is IMMACULATE, my mate has a 96 Daihatsu and despite regular oil changes his oil is always black.

I guarantee you any Ford problems are human related and can be fixed by cleaning up the dealer network.

Can't believe I missed this post!

I usually try not to bite, but that is the biggest load of hogwash I have ever read on this forum re cars sitting around not being serviced! :

Let me invite you to Peter Warren Smithfield and the soon to be opened Phil McCarroll Ford Narellan NSW where you can observe, through a large window most of the workshop. You can watch mechanics/apprentices working on a variety of Falcons, Focus, Territory etc. But we successfull hid the burnout pad out the back......

What did the XE really need done for a service? Really, tell us! No computer, no abs, probably no a/c, airbags, DSC etc. Need I go on?

Take this garbage elsewhere please.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by RATT

Can't believe I missed this post!

I usually try not to bite, but that is the biggest load of hogwash I have ever read on this forum re cars sitting around not being serviced! :

Let me invite you to Peter Warren Smithfield and the soon to be opened Phil McCarroll Ford Narellan NSW where you can observe, through a large window most of the workshop. You can watch mechanics/apprentices working on a variety of Falcons, Focus, Territory etc. But we successfull hid the burnout pad out the back......

What did the XE really need done for a service? Really, tell us! No computer, no abs, probably no a/c, airbags, DSC etc. Need I go on?

Take this garbage elsewhere please.

I invite you to inspect Grant Macaroll Ford Armidale, Mighty River Ford Grafton or Mike Blewitt Ford Coffs Harbour where me and my family have been burnt. The sales departments are good but the service departments are shocking.

BTW I was talking about the AU being serviced and at the very least from a $300 service I would expect the oil to be changed (which it wasn't), the light bulbs that were booked up to be replaced actually replaced and picking up my car in the afternoon I don't expect to be down a quarter of a tank, have dirty feet mark everywhere and for my car not to smell like burnt tyres.

There are many, many, many, many stories like mine so don't either saying I'm full of it.

[HenryV8]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Toyotas reputation is that after 3 years of owning your Corolla and with expensive regular servicing they have practically replaced every component in your car.

Originally Posted by sleekism

There are many, many, many, many stories like mine so don't either saying I'm full of it.

You are full of it, sleekism. I agree with everything DirtyHarry and RATT said.

[HenryV8]

Double post.

[SB076]

Hmm, I actually think all our local car manufacturers do a reasonable job you need to consider the small amount of cars built in Oz (quantity) But they still manage to build unique products at a reasonable price that competes with cars manufactured overseas in larger volumes (which gives cost savings and also frees up more budget for R & D and investment to improve quality/cost) In reading this thread and others it appears that the customer service side is letting down our local manufacturers. Just out of curioristy has anyone tried Ultratune or another service centre if they are really getting tired of the service provided by the dealer?

[RATT]

Originally Posted by SB076

Hmm, I actually think all our local car manufacturers do a reasonable job you need to consider the small amount of cars built in Oz (quantity) But they still manage to build unique products at a reasonable price that competes with cars manufactured overseas in larger volumes (which gives cost savings and also frees up more budget for R & D and investment to improve quality/cost) In reading this thread and others it appears that the customer service side is letting down our local manufacturers. Just out of curioristy has anyone tried Ultratune or another service centre if they are really getting tired of the service provided by the dealer?

Fair point re Ultra Tune. I would guess they would do a reasonable job considering they are owned by franchisees overseen by Ultra Tune themselves. So in effect they are run like dealership service departments.

Where it gets alittle vague is when there is warranty work to be done. Or software upgrades for better gearbox shift patterns etc. Which Ultra Tune cannot do.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by RATT

Fair point re Ultra Tune. I would guess they would do a reasonable job considering they are owned by franchisees overseen by Ultra Tune themselves. So in effect they are run like dealership service departments.

Where it gets alittle vague is when there is warranty work to be done. Or software upgrades for better gearbox shift patterns etc. Which Ultra Tune cannot do.

Good point I dont have a problem with servicing (apart from its not free and I cant have it yesterday) so I am sticking with the dealer - I was just curious if anyone was having a lot of problems with the dealer and decided to try somewhere else

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Steffo

with JD Power, often a bad experience with a salesmen or something along those lines will change the score of a car. Very factual statistics there... :

But a bad experience with a salesman "or something along those lines" is enough to change a repeat customer to a brand XYZ customer.

There's no point living in denial and building a wall against these results amd discounting them. Ford and Holden both need to take a long hard look at the process in how J.D. Power came to these results, why they received the ranking that they did receive, and how these results can be improved in future surveys.

I bet the bottom dollar that it came down to after sales service and warranty issues.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

But a bad experience with a salesman "or something along those lines" is enough to change a repeat customer to a brand XYZ customer.

There's no point living in denial and building a wall against these results amd discounting them. Ford and Holden both need to take a long hard look at the process in how J.D. Power came to these results, why they received the ranking that they did receive, and how these results can be improved in future surveys.

I bet the bottom dollar that it came down to after sales service and warranty issues.

When the results from one entity clash with absolutley everything else, then there is definitley just cause for disregarding them.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Steffo

When the results from one entity clash with absolutley everything else, then there is definitley just cause for disregarding them.

But can argue that Ford with one of the biggest dealer networks in the country has a paltry 9% market share and Mazda is projected to overtake them.

That the Falcon has a shocking 89% fleet sale percentage. That Ford which was the juggernaut of the small car market in the 80's and 90's (laser) is having dismal sales figures with their small cars. In the 80's the Laser outsold the 323 by more than 2 to 1. Now it is reversed with the 323 outselling the Focus.

It is defiantely not the product lineup because arguably Ford has the best product lineup compared to whitegoods Toyota and Korean Holden.

I point the finger at the dealers.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Steffo

When the results from one entity clash with absolutley everything else, then there is definitley just cause for disregarding them.

I havent looked at Hyundai or Toyota forum, but the evidence on here is that Ford service is woeful, and Ford themselves wipe their hands of it completely.

Hardly seems to clash with 'everything' else, its just the manufacturers own study that they wont release. If people here cant rave about the fabulous service, you'd have to assume it aint fabulous, it is a Ford forum.

[PALE ALE]

a few years ago my wifes workmate had a commodore that would stall, backfire and carry on intermitantly. She took it to the local holden dealer. They supposedly put the diagnostic tool on it , came up that it was the coil packs, put new ones on, charged her $600. She drove out of there thinking that problem was fixed. Next day car does the same thing. Brought it to us ( G.E. automotive and Industrial) It was the crank angle sensor ($20) common problem on this model. You would think that being a holden dealership that would know common faults on various model holdens. They have either ripped her off big time, or have no idea about fault finding. Maybe they just want "the easy bucks" servicing. She traded that commodore in on a brand new Kia and will never buy a holden again

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I invite you to inspect Grant Macaroll Ford Armidale, Mighty River Ford Grafton or Mike Blewitt Ford Coffs Harbour where me and my family have been burnt. The sales departments are good but the service departments are shocking.

BTW I was talking about the AU being serviced and at the very least from a $300 service I would expect the oil to be changed (which it wasn't), the light bulbs that were booked up to be replaced actually replaced and picking up my car in the afternoon I don't expect to be down a quarter of a tank, have dirty feet mark everywhere and for my car not to smell like burnt tyres.

There are many, many, many, many stories like mine so don't either saying I'm full of it.

I'll add my name for Grant McCarroll. The Dealer Principal single handly convinced me to never buy a Ford again, after a lifetime of buying them.

Dan

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by RATT

Where it gets alittle vague is when there is warranty work to be done. Or software upgrades for better gearbox shift patterns etc. Which Ultra Tune cannot do.

It gets even more vague when Ford refuse to advise us of those upgrades or make them available, exclusive of any servicing. It is uncompetitive work practices in my book.

When Grant McCarroll came down from the mountain and proclaimed my car banned for being purchased much cheaper elsewhere, I asked Ford how they intended to support my car in regard to upgrades etc.

I specifically asked about how I would be notified of updates and how they would be done. They did not have an answer.

It is anticompetitive in my book and yes I know all manufacturers do it. It still isn't right.

Dan

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Steffo

When the results from one entity clash with absolutley everything else, then there is definitley just cause for disregarding them.

Yet they don't clash, unless the endless list of problems with the cars and dealers here over the last several years I have been a member was all made up by anyone who posted their experiences? Myself included.

Or the people I know who won't buy any locally built car because of a problem with it, the dealer, sales and service etc.



Disregard or Denial? I'm guessing you are doing the latter.

Dan

[HenryV8]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

When Grant McCarroll came down from the mountain and proclaimed my car banned for being purchased much cheaper elsewhere, I asked Ford how they intended to support my car in regard to upgrades etc.

^^^^^^^
If the dealer actually said that he must be a complete clown.

There's more money to be made out of servicing a new car over a few years than there is in the actual sale.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Steffo

When the results from one entity clash with absolutley everything else, then there is definitley just cause for disregarding them.

But what other quality reviews do they clash with?

At the end of the day, this is all a marketing point, it's not going to help the current owners who may be suffering dramas in any way, shape or form. But what it will impact are potential buyers, and unfortunately for Ford, a well known, independant quality report like J.D. Powers will provide more reliable evidence to potential customers than some internal quality report that Ford might trumph out from some backroom.

And even if the J.D. Powers report might be wrong, the case still remains the same, and undeniable - Ford wasn't in good company in the report. Why?

[sleekism]

Isn't Buick and Ford actually rated well by J.D. Power in America??

[1 dvs 4d]

It all comes down to personal experience. I have driven 5 Falcon utes in a row since 2004 (1 AU, and 4 BA's) as that is what i prefer as a work vehicle.

I have experienced bad service at one particular Ford dealer ( Dale's Bankstown), Average at another (Sinclair's Penrith) And service that exceeds my every expectation (Peter Warren Smtihfield).

As for the cars the first BA (04 mk1) had a noisy diff after 30,000 km. was replaced with 24 hrs notice to the dealer and a courtesy car provided.

The diff is a third party component so it's not Ford's fault for a Borg Warner problem, The other two BA's and AU were fine and this BA (03 mk1) did 2 coil pack at 120,000 and the power sterring pump was chaged today at 141,000 km.
Overall I'm satisfied with my vehicles and the service I receive, We have a number of 4 litre Hiluxes that have issues right from new as well as our Crewmans and Rodeo's.

If you are not happy with the after sales service you receive vote with your feet and find someone else, and tell them you've been stuffed around by a rival dealer, they will be happy to take your business in my experience

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Isn't Buick and Ford actually rated well by J.D. Power in America??

Yeah your right, but some people here are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[buddyforu]

Umm what has Ford vehicles sold in America got to Ford vehicles sold in Australia? Answer? N O T H I N G.

Oh and by the way, the latest JD Power survey in the states (January '08) didn't even have Ford in the top 10...

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by buddyforu

Umm what has Ford vehicles sold in America got to Ford vehicles sold in Australia? Answer? N O T H I N G.

Oh and by the way, the latest JD Power survey in the states (January '08) didn't even have Ford in the top 10...

Um well lets see the Modular V8, the 5 speed Auto and the fact that even Ford North America admits that their Australian built products are of better built quality than their American counterparts.

And contrary to your claims Ford actually has done quite well:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/06/auto...lity/index.htm



Ford gets 5 top quality awards
Porsche takes the top spot and Mercedes is most improved brand in latest J.D. Power survey
By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney.com staff writer
June 7 2007: 9:11 AM EDT


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Five vehicles from Ford Motor Co. placed at the top of their categories in initial quality, according to a survey released Wednesday by J.D. Power and Associates.

The 2007 J.D. Power Initial Quality Study looks at both manufacturing defects and design problems in new cars as reported by their owners.


2007 Lincoln MKZ
The Ford (Charts, Fortune 500) Mustang ranked as the most problem-free "Midsize sporty car" in the survey while the Mercury Milan was the highest ranked midsized car and the closely related Lincoln MKZ was the top-ranked "Entry premium car."

The Lincoln Mark LT, a luxury version of the Ford F150 truck, was the top-ranked SUV and the Mazda MX-5 Miata was the top-ranked "compact sporty car." (Ford owns a controlling interest in Mazda (Charts).)

All three of Ford's U.S.-based brands - Ford, Lincoln and Mercury - earned above-average marks for quality. Ford's European luxury car brand Jaguar ranked sixth, tying with Toyota's Toyota brand.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by HenryV8

^^^^^^^
If the dealer actually said that he must be a complete clown.

There's more money to be made out of servicing a new car over a few years than there is in the actual sale.

My solictor has expressed my view on his actions to Mr McCarroll and I have to Ford.

My new Mazda is a nice car and I have had no such issues with that dealer at all.

[RATT]

Originally Posted by 1 dvs 4d

I have experienced bad service at one particular Ford dealer ( Dale's Bankstown), Average at another (Sinclair's Penrith) And service that exceeds my every expectation (Peter Warren Smithfield).

If you are not happy with the after sales service you receive vote with your feet and find someone else, and tell them you've been stuffed around by a rival dealer, they will be happy to take your business in my experience

Always good to hear that someone at Peter Warren looked after you.

Also agree on letting your feet do the talking, if you're not happy with the service you are getting then walk away.

[Redrum]

Ford have much room for improvement but I do think they are trying.

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Very much true!

I think the Ford Falcon is the best built vehicle around! Want to know why?

How many vehicles can survive so long without being serviced?

That is the cold hard fact. I have a few mates who were apprentices in Ford dealerships and they DON'T service their vehicles. Most of the time you will book in for your $300 service and it will sit in the workshop all day only occasionally taken out for a few burnouts by the apprentices. On top of that they might make up a few problems and charge you for that and book up 2 hours to change the spark plugs which of course they don't do.

The difference over at the Japanese dealerships are stark. I have a mate who is an apprentice at a Toyota dealership and while the vehicles are not built any better the difference is that they replace EVERYTHING (often expensively). Toyotas reputation is that after 3 years of owning your Corolla and with expensive regular servicing they have practically replaced every component in your car.

If you service your Ford yourself or get it done by an independant mechanic then it will last forever. My parents have an XE with 800,000+ kays still original engine and transmission and this thing has done towing all over Australia.

I have an XE and an AU1 (supposedly the worst built Falcon) and these things spend their lives at the limit of mechanical tolerances and despite my best efforts my mrs still puts her foot down every morning while the cars are cold and these things don't miss a beat. The oil in my XE is IMMACULATE, my mate has a 96 Daihatsu and despite regular oil changes his oil is always black.

I don't look through rose coloured glasses I am very pedantic with regard to quality.
I will never buy a Sony Playstation because I bought one once and it didn't work so I took it straight back to the shop and have been an XBOX person since. The same for motorbikes I only buy Suzukis because they are the most reliable.

I guarantee you any Ford problems are human related and can be fixed by cleaning up the dealer network.

This has got to be the biggest pile of crap I have ever read on these forums.

I mean, every single paragraph is complete garbage. Where to start?

- Falcon's the best built vehicle around?
- Toyota Corolla's get every component (presumably, all 20,000+) replaced in the first 3 years, and the purchasers pay for this in normal servicing?
- All Fords independently serviced last not 15 years, 30 years, or 45 years, but forever?
- AU is the worst built Falcon?
- and so it goes on....

What a T.O.S.S.E.R.

[Edit] Just finished reading the rest of the thread, and I now see the post has already been dealt with by others.