Woman strangled by her hijab on a go-kart

[UNR8D]

Originally Posted by puts99

Great post, let's hope the family shares your sentiment. Rep+ to you sir.

I hope for the sake of the family and the owner of the business that commonsense prevails and that nothing further comes of this bar a huge lesson learnt and that something similar will never happen again. However in this day in age, I doubt this is where it will end.

+1, if there was genuine negligence then I can see why people would go after the operator, but I can easily see how they thought they were doing the right thing.

at the end of the day the do gooders cant have it both ways... and sadly it seems that's what they are ever increasingly wanting.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

Any loose clothing on a go-kart or motor bike is asking for trouble, no matter how many guards you fit.

But I agree, the owner of the venue will be held liable, even though they did nothing wrong, it's beyond messed up.

there are two parties
one is an ignorant person, who should have known better, but obviously didn't
one is a business making money from a potentially dangerous activity. we could expect that the owners and/or workers at the time, would have known about the dangers of a scarf on a go kart

i am sorry, but i cannot see how the go kart track did nothing wrong - they should at the very least have advised her not to go on with the scarf. i mean if all of our resident experts here knew about the dangers, then the go kart track must surely have known


as for common sense - there is no such thing. we only learn from previous experience be it ours or someone elses. i have heard about many cases about people getting scalped/or injured from hair and clothing getting caught in machinery. maybe this lady and her family had not. for sure though, the go track track in question should have

[kermey]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i am sorry, but i cannot see how the go kart track did nothing wrong - they should at the very least have advised her not to go on with the scarf.

How do you know they didn't.
Terrible accident.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by kermey

How do you know they didn't.
Terrible accident.

i do not, but that is the very least. if she refused to remove the scarf, then they should have refused her money

there have been many times at go kart tracks when someone has dislodged a tyre and you come around a blind corner to find a tyre on the racing line (try hitting a tyre at full speed and see how much it disturbs your vision and arms etc. for a lap or two). that to me is an acceptable risk. i know driving a kart is potentially dangerous and each track i have been to has warned us of this before we get on

loose clothing (and i do not know just how loose it was), is another matter. that is not an acceptable risk. it can be downright dangerous - and all of the tracks i have been on warn us of it. maybe the track workers did warn her. maybe the scarf was tucked in and came loose, but if it was always loose and nothing was done, then that is not an accident - that was an accident waiting to happen

[Stefan]

The religious angle aside (but great fodder for a media beat up) this could have been your wife / daughter / son, who may not be mechanically minded or receptive to the danger of moving machinery.

I could imagine my wife trying to wrap a scarf around my son's neck to ensure he doesn't catch a cold. This is when the operator should step in and exercise his professional duty of care.

[StrokedXT]

Originally Posted by Stefan

HTCURRY, great post and it makes sense.

Go kart operator in the story should cop it, as he should not have let the lady on simple.

I doubt there would be any issues regarding discrimination like the rednecks are claiming

I claimed there could be issues with discrimination so does that make me a redneck, I wonder if my best friend who is female and muslim thinks I am?

[zdcol71]

There is another thread at present regarding nanny states, I am involved and interested in workplace oh&s and have found it difficult not to get involved in that discussion.
This story is a tragic one and I feel for the family involved. I don't see issues here with hijabs, operator involvement, balaclavas under helmets etc, etc.
What I do see is no one has made mention of the fact that " WorkCover, which is responsible for the safety of amusement devices in NSW, is investigating.
A WorkCover NSW spokesman today said investigators had placed prohibition notices on two go-karts at the track.
One was for an unregistered go-kart and another for a go-kart "that did not have significant guarding", the spokesman said.
Go-karts are "classified as amusement devices that have to be registered for safety purposes", he said.
OH&S legislation is put in place because this @#$! happens and all talk of common sense and responsibility for ones actions goes out the door when a business is involved in taking money from people who are coerced(and make no mistake that any business is not in the business of coercing clients) into putting themselves in situations that the would not normally be in. The onus is then on the operator to ensure the clients safety by putting into play all requirements that have been determined. If the operator has failed to install adequate guarding on the machine, then it does not matter a pinch wether it was a hijab, hi-ab , scarf, loose trouser cuff or any other such accourtment that gets caught in the machinery.


What I do see is no one has made mention of the fact that"

[thefargo]

sounds like a possible Isadora Duncan remake.

[StrokedXT]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

There is another thread at present regarding nanny states, I am involved and interested in workplace oh&s and have found it difficult not to get involved in that discussion.
This story is a tragic one and I feel for the family involved. I don't see issues here with hijabs, operator involvement, balaclavas under helmets etc, etc.
What I do see is no one has made mention of the fact that " WorkCover, which is responsible for the safety of amusement devices in NSW, is investigating.
A WorkCover NSW spokesman today said investigators had placed prohibition notices on two go-karts at the track.
One was for an unregistered go-kart and another for a go-kart "that did not have significant guarding", the spokesman said.
Go-karts are "classified as amusement devices that have to be registered for safety purposes", he said.
OH&S legislation is put in place because this @#$! happens and all talk of common sense and responsibility for ones actions goes out the door when a business is involved in taking money from people who are coerced(and make no mistake that any business is not in the business of coercing clients) into putting themselves in situations that the would not normally be in. The onus is then on the operator to ensure the clients safety by putting into play all requirements that have been determined. If the operator has failed to install adequate guarding on the machine, then it does not matter a pinch wether it was a hijab, hi-ab , scarf, loose trouser cuff or any other such accourtment that gets caught in the machinery.


What I do see is no one has made mention of the fact that"

WTF they were coerced into going on the go karts? Yeah my local go kart track is like kings cross you cant walk past without being dragged in and forced to race the karts against your will.

[phillyc]

It's a terrible situation and I feel for both the family (their loss) and the operators of the Go-Kart track (their horrible feelings - particularly if their were young employees working during the school holidays).

The lady who has sadly died, would've signed a statutory declaration and accepted that 'motorsport is dangerous'. I'm sure that they probably encouraged her to tuck in any loose clothing, but for fear of 'anti-discrimination' probably stopped short of banning her outright.

In short, she chose to drive a go-kart and chose to wear her outfit. Tragic consequences. Unfortunately. i think UNR8D summed it perfectly with

Originally Posted by UNR8D

at the end of the day the do gooders cant have it both ways... and sadly it seems that's what they are ever increasingly wanting.

[G6E Turbo 2]

No Doubt a very sad thing to happen, but what do we do
If people want to be sooooo stupid that they want to wear such atire, and demand
the right to do so, then what can we say !!!
Quite frankly I think It looks bloody awful anyway
Just my opinion

[Stav]

Its very sad to hear this has happened. Unfortunately though there is an element of risk in this activity and if I am not wrong the law indemnifies the owners of the place as the user takes the risk of accident. Same laws which apply to cricket ball on the head at cricket...The spectator isnt covered.

[sneaky]

just saw on the news update at 8:30pm that the go kart place has been shut by workcover due to not being registered.... but i think the place has been running for years so i don't know how that works.

i think someone might be in big(ger) trouble than before

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Stav

Its very sad to hear this has happened. Unfortunately though there is an element of risk in this activity and if I am not wrong the law indemnifies the owners of the place as the user takes the risk of accident. Same laws which apply to cricket ball on the head at cricket...The spectator isnt covered.

i would think that the owners still have to take all precautions necessary to ensure the patrons are as safe as possible
if it was an accident just involving karts, then the owners would probably be covered. if it is through negligence, no signed form should cover the owners

[Falc'man]

RIP

Originally Posted by Stefan

The religious angle aside (but great fodder for a media beat up) this could have been your wife / daughter / son, who may not be mechanically minded or receptive to the danger of moving machinery.

I could imagine my wife trying to wrap a scarf around my son's neck to ensure he doesn't catch a cold. This is when the operator should step in and exercise his professional duty of care.

Great point.
Sadly, IF there is blame, it would have to come from those that should have known better.

[OLDFORDNUT]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i'd say they (age) are just trying to get 'points' against the muslim community.

thats just plain rediculous,grow up

[bobthebilda]

Maybe the family would have a greater chance of suing the maker of the hijab.

a Hijab

"refers to the veil which separates man or the world from God."

This particular hijab seems to have sent its wearer closer to god. The exact opposite to the manufacturers intended purpose, and they probably have a good case under the trade practices act.

[UNR8D]

OH&S legislation is put in place because this @#$! happens and all talk of common sense and responsibility for ones actions goes out the door when a business is involved in taking money from people who are coerced(and make no mistake that any business is not in the business of coercing clients) into putting themselves in situations that the would not normally be in.

I hope for humanity's sake you are taking the so called '********'.

[banarcus]

She didn't stand a chance unfortunately.

I knew a bloke who survived Vietnam but got stuck in a horizontal borer at work. He was wearing overalls and thankfully it was his arms that bore the brunt and not his neck as the lady's did.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

I hope for humanity's sake you are taking the so called '********'.

You are too kind, I would not have thought that any opinion expressed on an auto forum could possibly have effected all humanity. Wow!!

[FGII-XR6]

this is a tragic situation but she was warned about her attire prior to riding according to local papers here ( I live in the area) she insisted on riding with her hijab and if the operator had refused her admission he would have been branded a racist and sued , a no win situation for him

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

this is a tragic situation but she was warned about her attire prior to riding according to local papers here ( I live in the area) she insisted on riding with her hijab and if the operator had refused her admission he would have been branded a racist and sued , a no win situation for him

You are right, this is a tragic situation, but guys, this has nothing to do with hijabs, race, religion or any type of PC. The operator deemed it necessaryto "warn" of the dangers, but like it or not, in the eyes of OH&S legislation, I don't believe there is an option other than revert to a duty of care by the operator.For all those talking about legal proceedings(not withstanding the recommendations from the coroner,) it's my understanding that Work covers' legal responsibility is probably lmited to charges against the operator for dereliction of said duty of care.The very fact that the operator has implicity agreed that there is a danger from loose clothing, imo, legally requires him/her to refuse admission/ride. I am guessing it's a similar situation(in the eyes of the law), to a young child insisting on riding on a roller coaster, even though there is specific operator instruction that unless certain conditions are met, then a ride is refused. seems that there are not too many arguments at the ammusement parks about this,or suggestions that it may be age or height discrimination.

[PHATXR8]

Is there a place for burqa's in Australia? Some Euro countries have banned them (from memory I think France, Denmark and Belguim).

I personally find them to be oppresive in that they impinge on the rights of women.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

Is there a place for burqa's in Australia? Some Euro countries have banned them (from memory I think France, Denmark and Belguim).

I personally find them to be oppresive in that they impinge on the rights of women.

Don't forget to ban balaclavas too as they impinge (not sure what that word means) on the rights of cold people.

What about the rights of motor cyclists and people involved in motorsport? Better ban full face helmets.

Come to think of it better ban those big ar$e sunglasses for all girls sitting in trendy cafes.....very offensive those.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

Is there a place for burqa's in Australia? Some Euro countries have banned them (from memory I think France, Denmark and Belguim).

I personally find them to be oppresive in that they impinge on the rights of women.

Of course theres places for burqa's in australia, but the important things is to chose the right burqa when driving. Take Mcdonalds for instance, I cant drive and eat a big mac, as (due to its size) its impossible to hold properly with one hand, but its much easier to drive whilst eating a cheese burqa.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

Is there a place for burqa's in Australia?

Yes, there are plenty of places.

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

Some Euro countries have banned them (from memory I think France, Denmark and Belguim).

You need to check your facts on this.

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

I personally find them to be oppresive in that they impinge on the rights of women.

How is it oppressive when there's no one forcing them to wearing it?

Is it oppressive for young females to walk about in the sleaziest outfits due to peer pressure/the latest trends/ads on tv? Is she nothing more than flesh and bones? You need to rethink your views on women.

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Yes, there are plenty of places.

You need to check your facts on this.

How is it oppressive when there's no one forcing them to wearing it?

Is it oppressive for young females to walk about in the sleaziest outfits due to peer pressure/the latest trends/ads on tv? Is she nothing more than flesh and bones? You need to rethink your views on women.

I think PhatXR8 may have made the mistake of beleiving that muslim women are oppressed and forced to wear the hijab. This not the case (not most of the time anyway) I dont like hearing about people being stereotyped and then being judged by that stereotype. raise the bar people!!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

Is there a place for burqa's in Australia? Some Euro countries have banned them (from memory I think France, Denmark and Belguim).

France has tried, but failed in banning it. The issue isn't dead, but I doubt it'll happen.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Take Mcdonalds for instance, I cant drive and eat a big mac, as (due to its size) its impossible to hold properly with one hand, but its much easier to drive whilst eating a cheese burqa.

I won't let that one slip through without the recognition it deserves. More of a Burqa King man myself though :thebirds:

[StrokedXT]

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

Is there a place for burqa's in Australia? Some Euro countries have banned them (from memory I think France, Denmark and Belguim).

I personally find them to be oppresive in that they impinge on the rights of women.

I take it you havent spoken to many muslim women who wear them.