Falcon deserved better

[FalconXV]

How hard would it be for a new upstart company to take over one of the factories, and start making export-grade luxury cars, that demand a premium.
The only surviving English car makers are prestige.

If the business model was clever enough, there would only be a need for one lot of government funding, then it could be run as 50/50 public/private enterprise.

Our parts makers are winning contracts with McLaren, Tesla etc, which proves we have the R&D capability to be a world player.
Have a platform so versatile it can cover specialised mining equipment and commercial vehicles.

It would take something pretty spectacular and daring to get a foothold in this cut throat market....but I reckon it could be done.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Volvo is owned by Chinese and Saab is broke ...

Ford & Holden are American owned, both are broke in oz, both closing very soon.

What's your point?

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Ruination

If export costs were too great... why didn't they just build them in a factory in the US?

They will be, under a new name.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Ford & Holden are American owned, both are broke in oz, both closing very soon.

What's your point?

The point could be an owner that doesn't make similar vehicles in it's home country, putting in plenty of cash and the manufacturer exports the majority of it's production.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

The point could be an owner that doesn't make similar vehicles in it's home country, putting in plenty of cash and the manufacturer exports the majority of it's production.

Sounds the same with Ford & Holden.

The thing that some are missing here is that Sweden with a population of 9 million (see original persons post about population size) still has 3 major vehicle manufactures. Volvo sold 420,000 vehicles in 2013.

I mean - could have been the same.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Sounds the same with Ford & Holden.

The thing that some are missing here is that Sweden with a population of 9 million (see original persons post about population size) still has 3 major vehicle manufactures. Volvo sold 420,000 vehicles in 2013.

I mean - could have been the same.

I can understand what you're saying however these brands have been export orientated from the start as they didn't rely on domestic volumes for survival. Volvo took a lot of Ford's money initially and now is bank rolled by the Chinese. And Volvo has always been seen as an "upmarket" car and gets higher margins per unit in all it's markets. Even when Ford owned it there wasn't an overlap of models as the Volvo's always sold for more money. And it's Chinese owners don't have product they export which competes with Volvo product. Also Holden and Ford don't/can't compete in the same price range for specific models/segments, hence cannot get the same margins. I think an XC90 sells for $15K more then a Titanium Terry. I wonder how Volvo is priced in it's home country against VW, Ford, Opel et al.

Edit: I think it only sold just over 52,000 in Sweden so it exports over 85% of production. Interestingly I think it built less than 18,000 S80's i.e. large/luxury sedan cars.

[Rob1964]

You have to remember the govt opened up the the flood gates & there are now 50 odd
brands of car out there! All its done is make the piece of pie smaller for every manufacturer
but most are selling around the world ours were'nt due to high wages ie: production costs! :(

[Mr Brooksy]

Originally Posted by johnydep

They will be, under a new name.

As much as I would like to agree with this statement, I just can't see it happening.

Why build a 4 door large sedan that has the looks of the Taurus, Mondeo/Fusion and Mustang? It would barely be noticed... Ford US has sunk a lot of $$ into its reworked Taurus with FWD and AWD, lots of $$ from Ford EU into the Mondeo/Fusion (assuming they led the design, I know not) only to bring in another model that is basically the same size give or take a handful of cm's and give it RWD with the same underpinnings as Mustang?

I was talking with a few from Mustang Forums in the States and they all shake their heads about the loss of the Falcon, but that the end of the day most said, "if they were going to buy a Falcon (if available there) they would NOT have bought the Mustang". Too many of too similar models from the same manufacturer would be like the old saying "taking from Peter to give to Paul".

As has been said before, we will wake up in the near future and realise that our only option for buying a new RWD 4 door large sports sedan is made for the premium sector. Some will be able to buy, the rest of us will either have to drive what we don't WANT (which is as important to me as the other factors involved in buying a car) or be confined to the second hand market (nothing wrong there, it's where I will be from '16 on, no question).

But the truth is, many of us who want the above will not be driving something with a new Ford badge.
It's as simple as that.

[mik]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

As good as barra 6 is , it's outputs are nowhere near the top world level . Remember it is a 4 litre engine - these days 4cyl 2litres are getting close to its outputs .
It is a bit simplistic to call all V6s "rubbish" - 3.5l Ecoboost was designed to deliver outputs of a 6l V8 with much better fuel economy. Even mighty GTR moved to V6 configuration from a straight six - vr38dett is a pretty impressive effort...

yeah, but its horses for courses, our aussie 4.0 6 primary function was pretty much general duties either on lpg or petrol, lugging the family in the sedan, and wagon with trailer,caravan , , powering the ute to pull loads, you wont see too many high power, high revving euro sports sedans covering so many duties as grand pa`s axe, and i suspect most of them would be unsuitable.
Yet it still manages to give give many higher cost marques a serious scare on the performance front with the turbo hanging on the side of grand pa`s axe, and the non turbo 6 doing a 14 point something over the quarter is still no slouch .

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Ford & Holden are American owned, both are broke in oz, both closing very soon.

What's your point?

It was a reply to your comment that in Sweden , a country of 9 million , Scania ,Volvo and Saab are doing ok....

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

It was a reply to your comment that in Sweden , a country of 9 million , Scania ,Volvo and Saab are doing ok....

Quote:
Originally Posted by vbvbvb088
A country of 23mill - and we think we have a hand in the game. Excellent it lasted as long as it will....

My comment was in reply to yours, about our size being a factor in vehicle production. My reply was to show that Sweden is doing OK in vehicle production with less people - "Sweden doing ok with 9 million. Scania, SAAB & Volvo." http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...2&postcount=26

Volvo on its own exported 420,000 cars last year.

It goes to show that having a proper export plan in place is fundamental for country & company.

[Motorbreath310]

Originally Posted by Some knob

Then there’s the rarity factor. You can walk across the road to a Holden dealer and buy a VF Commodore V8, or an HSV derivative if it’s serious muscle you desire, but the Falcon XR6 Turbo, currently priced from $46,235, and F6, from $64,390, are wonderful drives and genuine bespoke examples of Australian automotive engineering, the likes of which we won’t see again.

I'm not sure what to make of the bit in bold. Is He saying that a blown 5l V8, and turbo 6 that eats LS3's for fun isn't seriously muscly enough? Or is He making note of the fact you can't just go and buy a GT anymore?

Either way; F6 all day what a car! In decades to come, I reckon it'll be the turbo 6's that people will talknabout whenever the Aussie car topic comes up.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Ruination

If export costs were too great... why didn't they just build them in a factory in the US?

Would that still have been an expensive decision, or could the Falcon have survived if that happened?

China could just make the falcon and export to the world, they did it to the rodeo body.

USA had most of all the worlds money, now they say China has most of it, true or false.

[Road_Warrior]

Ford Australia's own internal management flip-flopping and dithering on important decisions hasn't helped Falcon and Territory over time. The revolving door of CEO's and abandoning previously approved strategies isn't a great way to plan for the future.

[CyberWasp]

Out of curiosity would anyone buy a Falcon in 6 years time if it had all the latest tech of the day, was designed and engineered in Australia but built in the USA or Thailand or somewhere like that?

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Out of curiosity would anyone buy a Falcon in 6 years time if it had all the latest tech of the day, was designed and engineered in Australia but built in the USA or Thailand or somewhere like that?

I'd look and consider. I'd prefer it to be very slightly smaller, and it'd have to be rear drive.

I believe that one thing that buyers didn't like about the Falcon & Commodore is size. When most medium size cars can easily fit 5 people and their shopping, why would they look at a large car? Especially when most of the time there is only one person in it.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Don't know if I will ever forgive Ford USA for not giving Falc and Terry a proper chance.

Well, its not their fault...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by johnydep

When most medium size cars can easily fit 5 people and their shopping, why would they look at a large car?

i guess your definition of 'easily' is different to mine.

as for exports to increase factory volume to make it viable, it was always a pipedream. we aren't big enough. the demand isn't there. the dollar is too strong and we are surrounded by water. this has all been covered numerous times. people just need to accept reality and be glad it lasted for as long as it did.

as for the article, the author is clearly biased, or its an old piece. why no mention of holden also closing up shop??

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by johnydep

My comment was in reply to yours, about our size being a factor in vehicle production. My reply was to show that Sweden is doing OK in vehicle production with less people - "Sweden doing ok with 9 million. Scania, SAAB & Volvo." http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...2&postcount=26

Volvo on its own exported 420,000 cars last year.

It goes to show that having a proper export plan in place is fundamental for country & company.

That wasn't my comment :-)
Volvo is a native Swedish company that happens to be owned by Geely nowadays . They produce for a world market - australian American owned subsidiaries produce for local australian market ,hence difference in volumes. One needs a product developed for a world market ( focus, mondeo etc) to export.

[danzvtil]

big cars = big fuel bills. I don't care if your falcon does 1000kays on a tank on the highway with a tail wind, EVERYDAY economy wins here. My company used to have all its reps on VE Commos. A fill was roughly $100-120 for roughly 500kays, Our Cruzes cost $60-$70 for 600kays.Now repeat week after week, month after month.
Coupled to the fact that to drive in and out of shopping centre carparks all day finding ever smaller spaces like we do as reps, Commos and Falcs are simply too big for only carrying 1 person around all day.
The market has spoken with their wallets.

[Billzilla]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

big cars = big fuel bills. I don't care if your falcon does 1000kays on a tank on the highway with a tail wind, EVERYDAY economy wins here. My company used to have all its reps on VE Commos. A fill was roughly $100-120 for roughly 500kays, Our Cruzes cost $60-$70 for 600kays.Now repeat week after week, month after month.
Coupled to the fact that to drive in and out of shopping centre carparks all day finding ever smaller spaces like we do as reps, Commos and Falcs are simply too big for only carrying 1 person around all day.
The market has spoken with their wallets.

... and a hybrid Falcon just doesn't seem right.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Billzilla

... and a hybrid Falcon just doesn't seem right.

Why not?

[Crazy Dazz]

The Falcon was and is a great car, all the more so considering their limited budget.
The simple problem is that this great car has been produced by a pimple on the *** of a lumbering international giant.
At a time when cars were the domain of prosperous westerners, Australia was an important market and the pimple was allowed to go its own way. But it was always going to be dragged along by the giant.
Now days, the Australian market is insignificant.

[2011G6E]

Couple things...not even really specific to Ford and the Falcon really...

If you just lazily sit back and don't advertise your product, don't whinge when people don't buy it.

If you don't read the market and see which way the wind is blowing and you don't respond accordingly, then don't complain when sales drop sharply.

Don't get lazy and believe that people will use the old logic of "dad had one and his dad had one so I'll have to buy one"...doesn't work like that now with increasingly-informed customers who realise that they don't have to purchase one particular make of car and can actually shop around a wide variety of choices.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Out of curiosity would anyone buy a Falcon in 6 years time if it had all the latest tech of the day, was designed and engineered in Australia but built in the USA or Thailand or somewhere like that?

Yep !
All this rubbish with people trying to go to a smaller car is just trendy rubbish.
If you need X you buy X end of story.

I buy V8's why ? because at the end of the day it's just like if you are looking for a base model or for something better.

Look V8's cut it and the others don't it's a fact, maybe the falcon turbo 6 is good but it's just a turbo and I not keen on turbo street cars all to much, when I was younger yes I would like it better due to the fang factor and that's mainly it.

I like a car that I like and enjoy and that plodding around or giving it a prod and I hate driving a car that the passenger is in your space bumping into you.
Have you ever sat in the back of a fairlane opposed to a falcon on long trips where would you rather be ? fairlane every time ! and no one fights over riding shot gun. true story

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Out of curiosity would anyone buy a Falcon in 6 years time if it had all the latest tech of the day, was designed and engineered in Australia but built in the USA or Thailand or somewhere like that?

But theyre not buying them now when they are made here.
Plus passenger cars in many parts of asia and Europe are heavily taxed based on physical dimensions and engine capacity, in order for it to have any legs is downsize to Mondeo dimensions, change the FWD to share the Mondeo platform, then you have, well, the Mondeo.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

But theyre not buying them now when they are made here.
Plus passenger cars in many parts of asia and Europe are heavily taxed based on physical dimensions and engine capacity, in order for it to have any legs is downsize to Mondeo dimensions, change the FWD to share the Mondeo platform, then you have, well, the Mondeo.

Good point.
The market is mostly moving away from large sedans anyway...their place is being taken by twin cab utes and mid-sized to smaller SUV's which package their interior space amazingly well. You no longer need a physically large car to have plenty of room inside.

The market has changed...and Ford (and to a lesser extent Holden) sadly just didn't seem to see it coming...

[DJM83]

Long live the Turbo 6, IMO the best thing to happen to Ford Oz. Makes me wonder what may have been if the falcon was going to still be around for many years to come what might have happened to the I6T and the potential that may have been unleashed with things like direct injection etc.
Gone but not forgotten.

[BradEL]

Its just another case of people not knowing just how great something was, until its too late and its allready gone

[Falcman0o7]

I blame tight arsed uneduacted car buyers aussie sheep.