Skills shortage again!!!

[Jim Goose]

Uni and TAFE positions havent really increaed in the past 15yrs or so. This means supply cant keep up with demand.
However sometimes it also appears that a lack of interest in certain trades because of crap wages and conditions have caused a skills shortage in some areas.

As an example here in Townsville for about 5yrs (from memory) the TAFE here did not offer panel beating or spray painting.

Why? Because the young folk here werent interested in that sorta work.
During that period in Saturdays paper there would be at least 10 jobs advertised for panel beaters/ spray painters every weekend!

Only about 2 yrs did TAFE start doing paint and panel again...

[xy500]

Originally Posted by Green X

Oh good someone else who thinks ya just do a Engineering degree and walk into a job with the Big miners. Were do you live, If you want a mining job in WA ya not going to get it living in NSW when you've got 0 experience.

The guys driving trucks on mines didn't just get a HR get a ticket and start driving Hallpacks, some may have got lucky but most would have started outside the Mining Industry getting experience on smaller machines then moved on working with contracting companys like NRW.

I worked with a guy who was driving 150T Cranes on the NWS, he had dozer tickets lots on mobile machinery time and 10 years time working on minesites, It took him 12 months to land a job with Rio Tinto

Same goes with Engineers, How long outa Uni are you what on the job Engineering experience do you have??? ya not going to walk into a job with Woodside fresh outa uni bro. Compaines like Monadelphous, AGC, HWE, UGL, Clough, CBI, KBR, FWW Ect Ect all have Billions in mining and Oil and Gas contracts.

I started my Apprenticeship aged 20 getting $12P/h I cam from a 45K a year Job, I busted my A## got it done in 3.5 years, now aged 26 i'm on between 120-160K working for contractors in mining/ Oil and Gas.

Look mate I could tell you all about job opportunities for engineers on mines, but I'm not interested in mining engineering one bit. Been there, hated it, the money isn't even that good when you consider the hours worked and the costs to a marriage.
Civil engineering was my field, if I ever decide to sell out and go back to it.

[JC]

Originally Posted by GTpilot

Very narrow minded view.

Thats is the problem with the curent generation of uni and TAFE graduates. They think it is their right to walk straight into high paying management positions because they have done 4yrs of classrom learning and know everything.

Fact is grasshopper - You don't know crap!

You have no practical business operations knowledge and you have no real world industry work experience, you also do not know how to deal with people. Therefore, you get put at the bottom half of the ladder. you get dis heartend with your starting wage, because it's not what you see advertised on seek for the more senior positions you believe you deserve because you think are capable of doing them. So off you go to dig holes for a living because the casual rate is better at the time.

Wake up sunshine, in 10 -15 yrs time your graduate mates will be earing triple what you are digging holes appling their trade/degree, by this time they WILL know what they are talking about, they will be in management positions or own their own company, because they got in at the bottom and stuck through the continued learning that is required.

Don't talk to me about skills shortage, talk to me about young peoples attitude to the corporate ladder and the resultant wages.

Fantastic - best post this month! And I agree 100%.

Too bad this thread contravenes site!

[JC]

Originally Posted by dave289

The problem is I would have no problem if every migrant was like you but unfortunately that is not the case, they are often uneducated, have never been and speak no engli . they get there whole family on the dole, how is this good for australia, they are taught the rorts before thay get hear and deliberately take advantage of our weak system. If migration could be controlled and implemented properly that would be great, but is uncontrolled and not implemented properly. If you want to hear more about the effect of migration on our country nstg8a send me a pm and I'll give you the rundown.

Ironic how someone who can't spell can have a go at people who allegedly can't speak!

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by JC

Ironic how someone who can't spell can have a go at people who allegedly can't speak!

Nail, head, hit.

[Green X]

I think the Media have beat the resources sector into somthing it's not.
Nothing gets under my skin morer than the C.U.B storys.

Yes the money is good but the hours are long and you work in remote arias. I'm on 2 Asbestos regesters after being Accidentally exposed.

The "Life style" don't suit evrybody, some people carn't handle it, I know of 2 people i'v worked with who have toped emself and 3 or 4 others who have just flipped out and had too be flown off site 1 as recently as 2 weeks ago. all from personal problems come about from working away from Home.

One of the guys i work with, His mother died, His mobile was back at camp and the faimly couldn't get throu to the site office, he didn't find out till we finished shift at 6pm. Then had to wait till 9am the next day for a flight off site!

[Green X]

Originally Posted by xy500

Look mate I could tell you all about job opportunities for engineers on mines, but I'm not interested in mining engineering one bit. Been there, hated it, the money isn't even that good when you consider the hours worked and the costs to a marriage.
Civil engineering was my field, if I ever decide to sell out and go back to it.

Sorry what? The OP was talking about how he cound't get a job in the Mining sector.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by GTpilot

Very narrow minded view.

Thats is the problem with the curent generation of uni and TAFE graduates. They think it is their right to walk straight into high paying management positions because they have done 4yrs of classrom learning and know everything.

Fact is grasshopper - You don't know crap!

You have no practical business operations knowledge and you have no real world industry work experience, you also do not know how to deal with people. Therefore, you get put at the bottom half of the ladder. you get dis heartend with your starting wage, because it's not what you see advertised on seek for the more senior positions you believe you deserve because you think are capable of doing them. So off you go to dig holes for a living because the casual rate is better at the time.

Wake up sunshine, in 10 -15 yrs time your graduate mates will be earing triple what you are digging holes appling their trade/degree, by this time they WILL know what they are talking about, they will be in management positions or own their own company, because they got in at the bottom and stuck through the continued learning that is required.

Don't talk to me about skills shortage, talk to me about young peoples attitude to the corporate ladder and the resultant wages.

sorry to selective quote.

but you young fellas, like you don't know that you are basicly wasting your time.

i have often wonder'd why i have three trade and they earn less than a forkie.
now that i'm working as a labourer for less hour's and 30% more money, i fail to see the benifit of trade school.

your's fathfully disillusioned

[xt3valve]

Originally Posted by burnz

their is no skill shortage...

most ppl leave their trades due to that they can earn more as a labourer.
trade wages suck in this country...

Hahahaha thats the biggest load of crap I have herd today. I work on Barrow Island (WA) as a carpenter so I have heard a whole lot of crap today and that tops the lot.

The answer is hard work gets you to the gold.

Im earning almost 200k a year and its all thanks to me being head strong and sticking to what I do best.

Started a carpentry apprenticeship when I was 15 earning about $300 bucks a week. Thaught about quiting about a thousand times in those four years but no I stuck to it, and got off my butt and made the effort to find the good jobs and now 24 im earning almost 200k a year doing FIFO as a chippie.

Some people think its all too much hard work and drop out and yeh do labouring jobs. But the people who stick in there are the ones who reap the rewards.

And about the truck driving. Everyone thinks you can just put in your resume and get handed the keys to a massive dump truck. Its not that easy again its back to the hard work bit. They have training companies all over australia offering courses to train you how to drive one of these trucks and get the correct accreditation. Thats what the mining companies are looking for. People who put in the hard work first and go out and pay to get the accreditation and correct training first.


You got to open the can first before you get the cream.

[ELGT4me]

Originally Posted by JC

Ironic how someone who can't spell can have a go at people who allegedly can't speak!

My friend , you do not gain access to the mining game, through your spelling abilities, that work is reserved for the 9 till 5 ladies in head office. It amazes me how someone who is firmly established in the ACT, can comment on the mining game. Been to the Pilbara, Goldfields, Hunter Valley, Bowen Basin have we ?

[burnz]

Originally Posted by xt3valve

Hahahaha thats the biggest load of crap I have herd today. I work on Barrow Island (WA) as a carpenter so I have heard a whole lot of crap today and that tops the lot.

The answer is hard work gets you to the gold.

Im earning almost 200k a year and its all thanks to me being head strong and sticking to what I do best.

Started a carpentry apprenticeship when I was 15 earning about $300 bucks a week. Thaught about quiting about a thousand times in those four years but no I stuck to it, and got off my butt and made the effort to find the good jobs and now 24 im earning almost 200k a year doing FIFO as a chippie.

Some people think its all too much hard work and drop out and yeh do labouring jobs. But the people who stick in there are the ones who reap the rewards.

And about the truck driving. Everyone thinks you can just put in your resume and get handed the keys to a 2000kg truck. Its not that easy again its back to the hard work bit. They have training companies all over australia offering courses to train you how to drive one of these trucks and get the correct accreditation. Thats what the mining companies are looking for. People who put in the hard work first and go out and pay to get the accreditation and correct training first.


You got to open the can first before you get the cream.

200k as year a chippy, yeah right.

maybe as an employer paying his worker's 2 bucks an hour and a bag of rice, thats it.
no hope of getting that on the real market, even if "your" a master craftman.

ps: i'm a cnc machinist, heavy diesel mech, boiler/pressure welder.
and yes trade qual in all three

[BOSHOG]

cmon guys this isnt about comparing bank balances or anything else for that matter.

[xt3valve]

Originally Posted by burnz

200k as year a chippy, yeah right.

maybe as an employer paying his worker's 2 bucks an hour and a bag of rice, thats it.
no hope of getting that on the real market, even if "your" a master craftman.

ps: i'm a cnc machinist, heavy diesel mech, boiler/pressure welder.
and yes trade qual in all three

Na no way im getting that (sarcastic).

I said ABOUT 200k a year. And do you want me to pm you my average $3200 a week after tax payslip. Can be more depending on how much overtime I do. But thats baced on a 7 day week doing 10 hour days.

Ahhh these narrow minded people who have no idea whats out there. As I said mate I did the hard work and worked my way onto the good jobs.

I dont care what anybody thinks. Im only putting this up here not to brag or compare but for people to see that if you put in the hard work the cash can follow. I just thaught it was a good example.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by xt3valve

Na no way im getting that (sarcastic).

I said ABOUT 200k a year. And do you want me to pm you my average $3200 a week after tax payslip. Can be more depending on how much overtime I do. But thats baced on a 7 day week doing 10 hour days.

Ahhh these narrow minded people who have no idea whats out there. As I said mate I did the hard work and worked my way onto the good jobs.

Im just putting this up here not to brag but for people to see that if you do the hard work the cash can follows.

it's not about bragging!!

the thread is about skill shortage.
with the apparent low wage as apposed the to the labour market
is their any other reason to the mass exodise from trades, i think not.

[xt3valve]

Young people in aus not willing to put in the hard yards and commit to an apprentaship and work throught the low wage years is what I think is contributing to the skill shortage. Hence the reason they have to resort to looking overseas for workers. The government is trying to overcome this by shortening some apprenticeships from 4years to 3. But still there is not enough local labour to fill the growing industry.

[T1 Terry]

Originally Posted by xt3valve

Na no way im getting that (sarcastic).

I said ABOUT 200k a year. And do you want me to pm you my average $3200 a week after tax payslip. Can be more depending on how much overtime I do. But thats baced on a 7 day week doing 10 hour days.

Ahhh these narrow minded people who have no idea whats out there. As I said mate I did the hard work and worked my way onto the good jobs.

I dont care what anybody thinks. Im only putting this up here not to brag or compare but for people to see that if you put in the hard work the cash can follow. I just thaught it was a good example.

Hope you are banking heaps of that because some boatie will float in and take your job when you least expect it. Then you will be back on the building sites working for $18 hr and hoping you get payed at the end of the job. Make hay while the sun shines because it won't shine that bright forever, trust me. I worked for 30 yrs in the mechanic trade, finally scored a great job as a hydraulics fitter building the power packs for big site cranes. Long hrs, up to 14hrs a day, sometime 7 days a week for weeks on end and 1 1/2hr drive each way too and from work but the money was great, close on what you are quoting. Then a week before christmas I was layed off, only a contractor so 15 mins notice. I was replaced by an Indian boatie who would work for $15hr 7 days a week on a sponsored contract.

T1 Terry

[xt3valve]

Originally Posted by T1 Terry

Hope you are banking heaps of that because some boatie will float in and take your job when you least expect it. Then you will be back on the building sites working for $18 hr and hoping you get payed at the end of the job. Make hay while the sun shines because it won't shine that bright forever, trust me. I worked for 30 yrs in the mechanic trade, finally scored a great job as a hydraulics fitter building the power packs for big site cranes. Long hrs, up to 14hrs a day, sometime 7 days a week for weeks on end and 1 1/2hr drive each way too and from work but the money was great, close on what you are quoting. Then a week before christmas I was layed off, only a contractor so 15 mins notice. I was replaced by an Indian boatie who would work for $15hr 7 days a week on a sponsored contract.

T1 Terry

Mate trust me in not taking this job for granted. And im fully aware that it will only last for as long as im here. Its the construction game, anyone riding that rollercoaster will know no job is forever. And its going to finish at some stage.

And again please be aware in my last couple of posts im not in any way playing the I earn more than you game/braging or comparing pays. Im only hoping that at least one person reads it and goes "yeh I might stick with my apprenticeship and see what comes if it". Because that one person is one less 457 visa taking our jobs.

My 2cents

Over and out

Cheers

[Auturbo6]

The skills shortage can be partly blamed on the union mentality under which this country runs. As long as everyone within establishments earns the same wage, whether competant and hard working or not. I personaly have had to endure one lazy and incompetant tradesperson after the other time and time again, yet these people are the first to windge and complain about how unfair this and that is! Too make things worse the current young generation want everything handed to them on a platter. Trades in general are in trouble and things are only going to get worse.
However the upside is that those of us that are left will be able demand wages higher than ever before. Even if our future operations highly entail babysitting forign workers.
They couldn't be any worse than whats getting around now!

[RIPGMH]

Originally Posted by burnz

200k as year a chippy, yeah right.

maybe as an employer paying his worker's 2 bucks an hour and a bag of rice, thats it.
no hope of getting that on the real market, even if "your" a master craftman.

ps: i'm a cnc machinist, heavy diesel mech, boiler/pressure welder.
and yes trade qual in all three

Pretty clear your not a master craftsman, other than the button pusher trade you would take 10 years to be any good Diesel Fitting or Boilermaking + at least a few years for each apprenticeship.

[snappy]

Originally Posted by burnz

200k as year a chippy, yeah right.

maybe as an employer paying his worker's 2 bucks an hour and a bag of rice, thats it.
no hope of getting that on the real market, even if "your" a master craftman.

ps: i'm a cnc machinist, heavy diesel mech, boiler/pressure welder.
and yes trade qual in all three

Dont be like that if you do the math he is on roughly 50 per hour for the hours he's working good money but not out of this world .
An to xt3valve :hrod I give you the hotrod as a thumbs up i know it doesn't make sense i just wanted to use that smilie . But any chance you need a plasterer on that island of yours

[Kryton]

Id be more than happy to learn a trade, however, being 32, i cant afford to reduce my salary to 1/3 of what i earn now.
Im sure there are many others out there in the same boat.

[xt3valve]

Originally Posted by snappy

Dont be like that if you do the math he is on roughly 50 per hour for the hours he's working good money but not out of this world .
An to xt3valve :hrod I give you the hotrod as a thumbs up i know it doesn't make sense i just wanted to use that smilie . But any chance you need a plasterer on that island of yours

Thanks mate.

Its all the extras like site allowance, trade allowance, travel allowance, overtime rates ect that make the differance. Its FIFO work and get paid accordingly. Its not hard to get it. Im a formwork carpenter making timber and plywood boxes for concrete to get poured into haha. Nothing master craftsman (like burnz mentioned) about it.

:hrod back at ya snappy.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

Pretty clear your not a master craftsman, other than the button pusher trade you would take 10 years to be any good Diesel Fitting or Boilermaking + at least a few years for each apprenticeship.

ha ha unfortunatly i'm the guy who wright's the pgm so the monkey can press the button.

and yes i'm aweare of the irony of putting myself out of a job...

as for diesel, none wan't to spring for repairs as it is now cheaper to replace new OEM equipment.

boilermaking well it's over supplied, no market demand.

[StAndArdAU]

I've worked for RioTinto the past 2 & 1/2 years. After failing my TEE in yr 12 in 2003 i found myself working at Kmart for a few months, then moved onto a local Poolmart Store. i worked there for close to 4 years learning how to repair pumps, install pools and learnt a fair amount about chemicals etc.
I then saw an advert to become a Laboratory Operator at RioTinto which i applied for and was hired. Lucky for me the job wasnt asking for any real prerequisites.

2 &1/2 years later im earning 100K+ a year as a resident in Karratha, am midway through a Cert III in Laboratory Skills. And in a few months im going to apply for a mature age Electrical Apprenticeship with Rio. My pay wont change and i'll keep all my benefits.

In the 7 years i've been in the workforce, i've seen friends leave town to Perth chasing their degrees at various universities. One has a Sports Science degree and now works as a TA on the Pluto Project, one got some Media degree and is currently getting a FIFO job to come back here as a labourer on Pluto, i could go on but the list is rather repetitive. It makes me wonder why these people bothered to live on the bones of their bums for 4 years if theyre just going to become labourers in the end?!

Whats worse is some of these people have admitted they only want the big $$ so they can do a bit of travelling. Whilst i dont have any arguement with wanting to travel the globe while one is young. If tehy think getting a job in their chosen field is hard NOW, try getting one ina couple years when your finished travelling!

No idea if this benefits the thread, but thats my 2c.

[StAndArdAU]

sorry for the triple post my Explorer froze and i hit the Refresh a few too many times!

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Sorry but sounds like a little sour grapes to me. If you were/are earning 32K, how did you get a HECS bill? You shouldn't have to pay anything until your wage rises above a certain point which is higher than that. Also how did you not get any Government help if you were receiving HECS assistance?

at the time the hecs repay was at $28k (thanks johney) i was paying it back at tax time, partime (2 subjects/semister = $3200/year) and i was paying between $2.5k & $5.5k/year hecs (paying back prevous subjects as well as one currently doing)

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by Green X

Oh good someone else who thinks ya just do a Engineering degree and walk into a job with the Big miners. Were do you live, If you want a mining job in WA ya not going to get it living in NSW when you've got 0 experience.

The guys driving trucks on mines didn't just get a HR get a ticket and start driving Hallpacks, some may have got lucky but most would have started outside the Mining Industry getting experience on smaller machines then moved on working with contracting companys like NRW.

I worked with a guy who was driving 150T Cranes on the NWS, he had dozer tickets lots on mobile machinery time and 10 years time working on minesites, It took him 12 months to land a job with Rio Tinto

Same goes with Engineers, How long outa Uni are you what on the job Engineering experience do you have??? ya not going to walk into a job with Woodside fresh outa uni bro. Compaines like Monadelphous, AGC, HWE, UGL, Clough, CBI, KBR, FWW Ect Ect all have Billions in mining and Oil and Gas contracts.

I started my Apprenticeship aged 20 getting $12P/h I cam from a 45K a year Job, I busted my A## got it done in 3.5 years, now aged 26 i'm on between 120-160K working for contractors in mining/ Oil and Gas.

And how did you get this apprenticeship in the first place?
and you think working your butt off for 3.5 years is long how many holidays did you have ?-4 weeks a year? i had two weeks off in 5 years
you started on $12/hour($25000/year) and now earn 5-7 times that!!!!
My trade paid me $20 extra a week after i qualified and the most you can earn is about $40k/year but I got that apprenticeship when youth unemployment was 40% (1989)
p.s i spent 5 years partime studing and did not finish

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by |||

maybe a small point, but you got plenty of help from the government in completing your degree. check out what full fee students pay upfront & compare it to what you paid (or were lent by the government) for your degree.

you don't have to repay HELP/HECS until you earn more than $43151 last year so your tax bill had nothing to do with HECS unless you have extra income you forgot to mention.

kids today seem to think a degree is a golden ticket into their dream job. there are thousands of people with your exact degree fighting for the jobs you want. if you're determined to find work & am willing to make sacrifices in the short term you'll be fine. if you're not then you lose out to people willing to work harder than you. life isn't fair but it's not going to change any time soon.

Yeah labor increased it - it was at $28k i earned ~$32/year working saturday and sunday and thurday nights and then up to seven days a week in the holidays

[dave289]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

i dont like being picky, but it doesnt help your argument that migrant workers are uneducated when your posts are full of spelling and punctuation mistakes

You are being picky, is that all you have to add, are you just trying to keep your post count up boshog. going by your post count and the short time you have been on hear and with this last post it is quite obvious you jibber to much ,you should get out a bit more mate. as for my spelling I used to be top of the class and can show you awards if you wish from primary ,I'm now 40 as of saturday ,dont use spell check and sometimes could not be bothered to change it just for people like you, I'm not being marked on it and dont bow to the forum like people like yourself ,who thinks their building some sort of reputation that actually means anything. now run off and annoy somebody else if you must keep that post count going and please dont annoy me again with such dribble. your posts dont use capital letters to start a sentence and yet you want to complain about punctuation. pm me next time you have a similiar problem so it does not have to go on someones thread.

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by xt3valve

Hahahaha thats the biggest load of crap I have herd today. I work on Barrow Island (WA) as a carpenter so I have heard a whole lot of crap today and that tops the lot.

The answer is hard work gets you to the gold.

Im earning almost 200k a year and its all thanks to me being head strong and sticking to what I do best.

Started a carpentry apprenticeship when I was 15 earning about $300 bucks a week. Thaught about quiting about a thousand times in those four years but no I stuck to it, and got off my butt and made the effort to find the good jobs and now 24 im earning almost 200k a year doing FIFO as a chippie.

Some people think its all too much hard work and drop out and yeh do labouring jobs. But the people who stick in there are the ones who reap the rewards.

And about the truck driving. Everyone thinks you can just put in your resume and get handed the keys to a massive dump truck. Its not that easy again its back to the hard work bit. They have training companies all over australia offering courses to train you how to drive one of these trucks and get the correct accreditation. Thats what the mining companies are looking for. People who put in the hard work first and go out and pay to get the accreditation and correct training first.


You got to open the can first before you get the cream.

This is part of the problem since when have chippies ever been worth that!!! i have two trades that would never pay anywhere near that, a mate who top mechanical engineering working now as a plant manager only earns about $80k this guy got 100% in a heat and energy subject (3rd year)