HSV to get camaro engine

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

You can always tell it's that time every now and then when petrol prices are starting to get rediculous and oil is peaking in price...Holden (and to a lesser extent, Ford) always choose those times to start spruiking how they're going to be making bigger and bigger V8's...

Speaking of the W427...I remember vividly that a lot of people were awfully ****ed off that Holden was allowed to enter it in the 24 hour "production car" race at Bathurst. I suppose Holden said it was a "production car"..."one" was produced at the time, so that's "production", isn't it...?

Wasn't that a 427 Monaro. I think it kicked **** too!

[GT-E]

The power wars will be killed off in a few year due to fuel prices.
Our kids will be upping the voltage or bigger cappasitors to make their cars go faster.
As it has been mentioned, enjoy it while it lasts.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by naddis01

The whole article is speculation at best.

That's all wheels do.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Speaking of the W427...I remember vividly that a lot of people were awfully ****ed off that Holden was allowed to enter it in the 24 hour "production car" race at Bathurst. I suppose Holden said it was a "production car"..."one" was produced at the time, so that's "production", isn't it...?

That wasnt the W427, that was based on the HRT 427C concept which used the C5R Corvette Gen3 based 7L V8. If you think thats bad though, Honda went a step further in getting the HSV-10 into SuperGT.

[mik]

ford oz has already started building smarter, the blown 5.0, eco boost models comeing, surely holden /hsv will start useing smaller more efficient power units?

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by mik

surely holden /hsv will start useing smaller more efficient power units?

Why? Mercedes Benz use engines that are similar in size to what GM/Holden/HSV use, and they don't come under scrutiny.

In saying that I think GM have reached their peak as far as size goes. I doubt we'll see anything bigger than the LS7 in a production car.

Anywhere from 5.5L to 6.2L should be fine. They don't have to scale all the way back just because Ford do.

[FordFan86]

I can see similar things happening to Australian built cars with what happened to superbikes.

"In 2000, fears of a European regulatory backlash or import ban led to an informal agreement between the Japanese and European manufacturers to govern the top speed of their motorcycles at an arbitrary limit."

Some greenie will pike up and shortly we'll all be driving around cars from factory limited to an arbitrary top speed/power output.

[KuRT12]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Why? Mercedes Benz use engines that are similar in size to what GM/Holden/HSV use, and they don't come under scrutiny.

In saying that I think GM have reached their peak as far as size goes. I doubt we'll see anything bigger than the LS7 in a production car.

Anywhere from 5.5L to 6.2L should be fine. They don't have to scale all the way back just because Ford do.

Holdens Bigger V8's Run on Ethanol or LPi (In the HSV's)

That makes them more environmentally friendly anyway.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by FordFan86

I can see similar things happening to Australian built cars with what happened to superbikes.

"In 2000, fears of a European regulatory backlash or import ban led to an informal agreement between the Japanese and European manufacturers to govern the top speed of their motorcycles at an arbitrary limit."

Some greenie will pike up and shortly we'll all be driving around cars from factory limited to an arbitrary top speed/power output.

Yes but many bikes can do 0-100 in the 3 sec range. You can buy a W16 VW here with 700+kw so I don't think the government will step in for something with much less power.

[Buntz]

Ford always have access to the Cammer racing crate engines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine

5.0 L and 5.3 L Cammer

5.0 L R50 Cammer 4-valve DOHC V8 engine installed in a Grand-Am Cup Mustang FR500C.
In 2005, Ford Racing Performance Parts introduced a 5.0 L (4992 cc, 305 CID) V8 crate engine for use in motor racing and home-made performance cars, officially called M-6007-T50EA, but more widely known as "Cammer". Since then, other higher performance variations of the Cammer have been introduced for KONI Sports Car Challenge and GT4 European Cup. All versions of the Cammer are DOHC 4-valve per cylinder designs with a 94 mm (3.700 in) bore and a 90 mm (3.543 in) stroke. The Cammer achieves its larger 94 mm (3.7 in) bore by resleeving a production 4.6 L aluminum block.
The T50 Cammer crate engine, the least expensive and most street oriented version, uses derivatives of the cylinder heads, variable runner-length magnesium intake manifold, and camshafts first used in the 2000 FR500 Mustang concept car. These parts are unique to the T50 Cammer crate engine and are not found in any other production Modular applications. The T50 has an 11.0:1 compression ratio and exceeds 415 horsepower (309 kW) with the proper exhaust manifolds.
The Cammer that has seen success in Grand Am Cup powering the Mustang FR500C is officially called M-6007-R50 and features a unique dual plenum, fixed runner-length magnesium intake manifold, Ford GT aluminum cylinder heads, unique camshafts of undisclosed specifications, and an 11.0:1 compression ratio. The R50 Cammer produces over 450 hp (336 kW) without restrictor plates. Upon introduction the R50 Cammer-powered Mustang FR500C proved to be dominant in Grand-Am Cup, having achieved five victories and podium appearances in nearly every race in the GS class during the 2005 season, giving David Empringham the championship title with the Multimatic Motorsports team, and Ford the manufacturer's title.
Robert Yates publicly expressed interest in using a similar 5.0 L 4-valve DOHC Modular V8 to compete in the NASCAR Winston Cup Series (now Sprint Cup Series).[29][30][31] Roush-Yates supplies a naturally aspirated [32] 550 hp (410 kW) 5.0 L Cammer for use in the Mustang FR500GT3 and Matech-Ford GT3 which participate in the FIA GT3 European Championship[33][34], and a naturally aspirated 665 hp (496 kW) 5.3L Cammer for use in the 2010 Matech-Ford GT1 that competes in FIA GT1 World Championship.[35] The 5.3L Cammer's extra displacement is achieved via a 95.3 mm (3.750 in) stroke.

[NAFairlane]

didnt HSV tell everyone that they are going to develop the suspension and handling of the car now not the power output???

[Bossxr8]

HSV would only use the ZL1/LSA in a WD40 replacement such as a GTS/R or something like that. They way they talk in the article is like Clubsports and such will get it, which they won't. Why would they bother changing now when the 5.5 litre Gen 5 is coming next year?

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

HSV would only use the ZL1/LSA in a WD40 replacement such as a GTS/R or something like that. They way they talk in the article is like Clubsports and such will get it, which they won't. Why would they bother changing now when the 5.5 litre Gen 5 is coming next year?

Still haven't heard much about that engine. Or the 3.0 Bi-turbo sidi. Any info mate?

[smoo]

Originally Posted by mik

surely holden /hsv will start useing smaller more efficient power units?

Every internal combustion engine we have access to is highly inefficient, as in less than 50%. Stop quoting Honda Civic fan boy BS. The fact the modern SBC can return similar fuel economy to something half its cubic capacity while weighing less and physically measuring less shows how efficient and versatile it is.

[HULK EF]

Originally Posted by NAFairlane

didnt HSV tell everyone that they are going to develop the suspension and handling of the car now not the power output???

Sounds like the Tickford days of 5.o litre windsor vs the new ls1.. (in reverse)

[NAFairlane]

Originally Posted by smoo

Every internal combustion engine we have access to is highly inefficient, as in less than 50%. Stop quoting Honda Civic fan boy BS. The fact the modern SBC can return similar fuel economy to something half its cubic capacity while weighing less and physically measuring less shows how efficient and versatile it is.

Most modern petrol engines are only in the 20-30% efficient, and diesel's are a little more efficient at 25-35% and even then they are the best of the best engines.

[mik]

Originally Posted by smoo

Every internal combustion engine we have access to is highly inefficient, as in less than 50%. Stop quoting Honda Civic fan boy BS. The fact the modern SBC can return similar fuel economy to something half its cubic capacity while weighing less and physically measuring less shows how efficient and versatile it is.

for what they are they are good compared to the older generation engines , but i find it hard to believe the sidi 3.0 would not crap all over the 6.0 in fuel economy, next thing you`ll be telling me speed camera`s are purely for safety

[SSV Redline]

I'm getting 7 to 9 ltr per 100klms out of my SSV 6.0 on Brisbane to Mel trips using 98 Ron and the AFM system. Shove your thoughts on a 3.0 SIDI up your clacker

[smoo]

Originally Posted by SSV Redline

I'm getting 7 to 9 ltr per 100klms out of my SSV 6.0 on Brisbane to Mel trips using 98 Ron and the AFM system. Shove your thoughts on a 3.0 SIDI up your clacker

+1 a well known fact that the LS1/2s are extremely economical when driven reight and thats before you take into account their cubic capacity. As for mik I never said the V8 Commodores were as good as the V6s on gas, you missed the point of my post.

[spvd02]

Originally Posted by SSV Redline

I'm getting 7 to 9 ltr per 100klms out of my SSV 6.0 on Brisbane to Mel trips using 98 Ron and the AFM system. Shove your thoughts on a 3.0 SIDI up your clacker

That might be what your trip computer tells you. Until you start calculating the fact that your speedometer is probably 10% out, on top of the fact you've used more fuel than it says you've used, and it would work out to be roughly 9-11 L/100km.

Not looking so impressive anymore is it?

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by spvd02

That might be what your trip computer tells you. Until you start calculating the fact that your speedometer is probably 10% out, on top of the fact you've used more fuel than it says you've used, and it would work out to be roughly 9-11 L/100km.

My R8 Clubsport was getting better economy than my F6 is now. Only marginally, though. 12.1l/100km to 12.5l/100km in the F6 - and I don't spend all that much time with the boot in it. R8 was manual, F6 is auto.

[2011G6E]

Just throwing a bigger more powerful engine into a car just makes it look like they are taking the easy way out to "stay ahead".

As the old saying goes: "It isn't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog". It's perfectly possible to give a car more power and make it a worse car. The English have understood for years that a "sports car" needs good handling and styling and feel...outright power was a secondary consideration.

Where's the fun in screaming away from the lights with a kajillion kilowatts if the chassis is still sluggish and poorly-setup and it corners like an oil tanker?

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by SSV Redline

I'm getting 7 to 9 ltr per 100klms out of my SSV 6.0 on Brisbane to Mel trips using 98 Ron and the AFM system. Shove your thoughts on a 3.0 SIDI up your clacker

Does that have the cylinder deactivation tech?

[KuRT12]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Just throwing a bigger more powerful engine into a car just makes it look like they are taking the easy way out to "stay ahead".

As the old saying goes: "It isn't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog". It's perfectly possible to give a car more power and make it a worse car. The English have understood for years that a "sports car" needs good handling and styling and feel...outright power was a secondary consideration.

Where's the fun in screaming away from the lights with a kajillion kilowatts if the chassis is still sluggish and poorly-setup and it corners like an oil tanker?

I think its more widely accepted that the HSV out handles / out brakes the FPV unfortunately...

Look at about every single magazine review. I know they are not the be all and end all of reviews.. but they have all came to the same conclusion.

So unfortunately they are not just 'throwing a bigger engine in' to stay ahead.

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Does that have the cylinder deactivation tech?

Yes AFM (Active Fuel Management) Is the cylinder deactivation technology on the 6.0L Holdens. (not HSV)

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by KuRT12

I think its more widely accepted that the HSV out handles / out brakes the FPV unfortunately...

Look at about every single magazine review. I know they are not the be all and end all of reviews.. but they have all came to the same conclusion.

So unfortunately they are not just 'throwing a bigger engine in' to stay ahead.

Um.... no. FPV has much better brakes. That don't fade like the HSV's do.

In TopGear Australia. Stig said he'd rather drive the GTS around all day, and use it to tow the FPV GT to the track.

Originally Posted by KuRT12

Yes AFM (Active Fuel Management) Is the cylinder deactivation technology on the 6.0L Holdens. (not HSV)

Why Ford haven't utilised this still, I have no idea.

[Fireblade]

Won't happen, must be a slow month at wheels

[T3ts50]

There has been speculation that HSV will use the LSA/LS9 for a number of years now, even before the W427 was released.

This has probably come up again due to the Camaro using the LSA, and sharing the same platform as Commodore.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Why Ford haven't utilised this still, I have no idea.

Cause its a crock. AFM is a way of selling a slower V8, and it only works in certain conditions.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Cause its a crock. AFM is a way of selling a slower V8, and it only works in certain conditions.

Like idling... or driving around town? even if it's a couple of litres of the average city driving.... that's still awesome.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Like idling... or driving around town? even if it's a couple of litres of the average city driving.... that's still awesome.

No its not working then, its only working when your cruising on the highway and no real load is required.