Shortage of truck drivers in Australia?

[BENT_8]

Ok, now I have a little more time I'll elaborate.
NHV laws we're introduced to passenger transport in SA on 1/10/18 I believe, so whilst it may have been around for a lot longer, it's only new to this section of the heavy vehicle industry.
I'll give you an example of how the system should work and why it doesn't.
I began driving passenger transport prior to the introduction of the legislation, I noted on my first day that the ABS light on the dash was illuminated and discussed it firstly with the person who had been driving it and then with our mechanic and was told it was a sensor and not to worry about it.
Fast forward a month and its due it's 12 monthly inspection which it fails due to the ABS problem.
The vehicle is returned to the depot at which time I'm grilled for not letting anyone know, I then explained that it had been illuminated since before I began driving it and called on the former driver who occurred.
When I arrived later that afternoon the mechanic came over with a big grin on his face saying he'd fixed the problem, I turned the ignition on and no light came on, now to average Joe it would appear that he did infact fix it, but being vehicle savvy I knew straight away that all he'd done is removed the globe as it should illuminate on ignition to prove it's working and extinguish once started.
I said this to him and he snarled and stormed off, the vehicle was Re- booked for inspection and passed...
A few weeks later I found myself in a situation where I needed to brake heavily in the wet, the rear end locked immediately and I slid whilst pumping the peddle for a good 50m luckily avoiding the obstacle, the ABS didn't work at all.
Soon after that the legislation was introduced and that vehicle has been getting around with faulty brakes whilst being signed off as compliant for approximately 18 months and has even been through a second inspection.

The industry is cut throat and whilst legislation is put in place with good intentions it can only work if the person on the bottom rung of the ladder, the driver, feels comfortable and secure enough in his job with support from those up the chain that any issues will be managed appropriately.

Now I understand why you defend it so strongly if you we're required to preach it to business, but from someone on the other end of the chain at the coal face it is a very different story and again, I doubt I'm a pioneer on the subject.

[Trevor 57]

Most sensible people would bring that to the attention of the authorities discreetly - they would love to know. You are being complicit to their inattention to safety, you could have killed someone - no good blaming the system mate, look in the mirror

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Most sensible people would bring that to the attention of the authorities discreetly - they would love to know. You are being complicit to their inattention to safety, you could have killed someone - no good blaming the system mate, look in the mirror

And how does someone discreetly inform the authorities about a missing globe Trev, when that Authority comes looking mate and they ask who drives it, how long do you think it would take before the informant would be exposed?
Especially considering I was the only guy driving it and had flagged the issue.
Its not like they go around peering into your cab looking for globes Trev, if the annual inspection didn't pick it up, it could only come from one source.

You see Trev, every morning when I rolled out of bed I had 3 choices I could make.
1, I could decide its not worth the stress of having it hang over my head and throw in the towel.
2, Flag every issue I know and worry for the next however long that i'll get a tap on the shoulder and told to move on.
or
3, pull on my cape, tick the boxes as required and head off to tip toe around in traffic hopeful that I can use my skills as a professional driver to avoid an issue which will expose the true state of play.

I chose the latter Trev, because jobs are hard to come by and I need the money and besides, if I chose either of the first two what do you think would happen?
Let me help you out Trev, that seat will be filled within 24hrs by someone else who then needs to make those choices every morning when they roll out of bed because the wheels have to keep turning trev.

As I said earlier, the industry is cutthroat and sometimes its simply a case of needing that vehicle out there to pay the bills and the difference being do we fix that issue or fill the fuel tank, for every 1 at the big end of town in their fancy late model vehicle is another 50 bottom feeders just trying to make a living before they too get swallowed up by the big guy.

Talking about someone else to fill that seat, i'll tell you a story which you may or may not know.
My Wife works with a lady who's cousin was killed a number of years ago when the heavy vehicle he was driving on his first or second day on the job had a brake failure.
This employer had been told about the problem by numerous drivers who we're sent packing only for some poor unsuspecting bugger, probably sent by a job network agency to fill a position and make themselves look competent, applied and got handed the keys.
He didn't have the benefit of knowing what would happen, he just loaded up and headed off full of pride that he was earning a crust and hope that it would last, well it did last Trev, all of a few hours until he came over a crest doing the speed limit to find a red light with traffic banked up, pushed the peddle and got no response.
To his credit he chose the large steel pole holding up the overhead gantry signage and sacrificed himself rather than kill some one minding their business.
That truck too came under the NHV laws but for some reason, it kept going out because the truth is, all the good intention in the world means diddly squat until it all goes wrong.
If I gave it away Trev, whats to say another unsuspecting good guy with good intentions doesn't end up facing the same situation in the near future.

Lets look at it from another point of view Trev, I flagged that issue and that's the reply I got, nothing. If I pulled the pin and a new guy went down the road and cleaned someone up, what do you think would happen?
I'll help you out again, firstly Major Crash will roll up and start their inquiries, they'll load it on to a tow truck and drag it down to their facility where they'll soon discover the inoperative ABS light, pull the dash and find the globe missing.
They'll then head on down to the business and start asking questions, the owner will pull out the certificate of compliance and say it passed, do you think Major crash will then head down to the government testing station and ask how it got through, of course they wont, they look further along the chain to the mechanic, did you remove the globe, mechanic checks the pre trip paperwork, not me, never been flagged and so they look at who signed for it on that day, the driver, who probably didn't even realise there should have been a globe in the first place but because COR says he signed to say it was ok, the buck will fall with him and he will be splashed across the media and head into a very long and expensive court proceeding where it becomes a he said she said.

Now I know im not going to change your views on it Trev, you obviously want to believe that your good intentions as an instructor and advisor made a difference, and it probably did in some places, but not all and you'd have to be naïve to think it would. So i'll leave it there and let the people who drive around amongst these heavy vehicles make their own minds up, they might want to cast a look sideways at the next set of lights and ask themselves, it that tyre really meant to have no tread on the edge etc. etc.
But hey, they can rest assured knowing that if and when something goes wrong, and God willing its not to them, someone in a suit will come along and start making his way to the bottom of the chain looking for a culprit.

[Trevor 57]

this same story has been going on since time began, sitting on your hands is not right either.

I joined the industry in 1976, it was going on then and it is going on now.

I have dealt with transport managers/owners who were feeding their drivers drugs, is that OK? I could quote one of our local blokes from years ago who said publicly "is it better to take a pill or a gumtree in the grill"

Or another bloke who asked during the interview if you (as the driver) would takes drugs, those that said no never got a job. These blokes like the dinosaurs have disappeared, the longer people turning a blind eye then the industry will never get any better


You know I can almost guarantee that if that braking attempt resulted in a big smash I reckon the very first thing out of your mouth would have been the removal of globe - something to ponder eh?

[smoo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Lets look at it from another point of view Trev, I flagged that issue and that's the reply I got, nothing. If I pulled the pin and a new guy went down the road and cleaned someone up, what do you think would happen?
I'll help you out again, firstly Major Crash will roll up and start their inquiries, they'll load it on to a tow truck and drag it down to their facility where they'll soon discover the inoperative ABS light, pull the dash and find the globe missing.
They'll then head on down to the business and start asking questions, the owner will pull out the certificate of compliance and say it passed, do you think Major crash will then head down to the government testing station and ask how it got through, of course they wont, they look further along the chain to the mechanic, did you remove the globe, mechanic checks the pre trip paperwork, not me, never been flagged and so they look at who signed for it on that day, the driver, who probably didn't even realise there should have been a globe in the first place but because COR says he signed to say it was ok, the buck will fall with him and he will be splashed across the media and head into a very long and expensive court proceeding where it becomes a he said she said.

I don’t think you understand what is required of transport companies & their workshops or service providers when it comes to repairs and maintenance, and the CoR.
EVERYTHING has to be signed off (not necessarily repaired) for that vehicle to be deemed ‘safe’.
You’ve covered your **** by noting down the ABS defect.
The onus is then on your management to liaise with workshop management or maintenance contractor to get it sorted.
It is up to workshop to repair or sign off that it is ok to run.
If they can’t repair and aren’t happy sending it then your management need to accept that, and in my experience I’ve never had fleet control or dispatch or sub contractor demand a truck when I’ve told them it’s not safe to be on the road.
You’ve done your part, the CoR will have **** flowing uphill if you ended up in an accident and the original defect has not been repaired or has been signed off as safe when it isn’t.
All transport companies will keep a few years of maintenance recordS including drivers prestart/run/defect sheets explaining any defects and what acton was taken to remedy them. All of this paper work will have been signed off on completion by a mechanic and his or hers supervisor or manager. Transport companies are anal on this incase the worst should happen.
You are well within your rights to refuse to operate a vehicle you deem unsafe.
Management need to respect that. If they don’t then I’d be looking for another job. It’s not like there is a shortage of driving jobs around .

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by smoo

I don’t think you understand what is required of transport companies & their workshops or service providers when it comes to repairs and maintenance, and the CoR.
EVERYTHING has to be signed off (not necessarily repaired) for that vehicle to be deemed ‘safe’.
You’ve covered your **** by noting down the ABS defect.
The onus is then on your management to liaise with workshop management or maintenance contractor to get it sorted.
It is up to workshop to repair or sign off that it is ok to run.
If they can’t repair and aren’t happy sending it then your management need to accept that, and in my experience I’ve never had fleet control or dispatch or sub contractor demand a truck when I’ve told them it’s not safe to be on the road.
You’ve done your part, the CoR will have **** flowing uphill if you ended up in an accident and the original defect has not been repaired or has been signed off as safe when it isn’t.
All transport companies will keep a few years of maintenance recordS including drivers prestart/run/defect sheets explaining any defects and what acton was taken to remedy them. All of this paper work will have been signed off on completion by a mechanic and his or hers supervisor or manager. Transport companies are anal on this incase the worst should happen.
You are well within your rights to refuse to operate a vehicle you deem unsafe.
Management need to respect that. If they don’t then I’d be looking for another job. It’s not like there is a shortage of driving jobs around .

No, you've read it wrong, there is no written evidence of the ABS light because it was removed prior to the introduction of the legislation covering passenger transport vehicles, when I first started, discovered the problem and spoke to management and the mechanic about it, all we had to do was turn up, start the vehicle and drive off, there was no official reporting procedure.
Soon after the globe was removed and it passed inspection the new laws came in and we then had to tick off things like oil, p/s fluid, coolant, brake fluid, wipers and washers, brake lights, head and taillights, indicators, clearance lights, reverse lights, windscreen condition and tyre condition and pressures.
Up until the vehicle was taken off the road recently the 'warning light' box was ticked as compliant because there was no globe to give a warning.

Now you could argue that the inspection which it failed would point to there being a problem from that far back, but seeing as its passed twice since, no one at the inspection station is going to admit they failed to pick up the missing globe so they'll all say it was ok on both those occasions and has gone missing since, im not silly, I know how it works.
Interestingly the last two on the list, windscreen and tyres have been removed from the check list...after people started reporting issues, so now those cracks and questionable tyres no longer have a place to be reported...
Would those forms then stand up to scruitiny if something we're to happen, no way as tyre condition is mandatory, but im guessing they're not worried about the 'what if's' and focussing on the 'get out there and drive without costing us money'.

Jobs..lol, you don't live in SA do you...

Anyhow, that's enough for me on the topic, I didn't come in here to blow any whistles, I just came in to suggest that its the pressures to either put your **** on the line in suspect vehicles or deal with the fallout of highlighting the issues which is turning people away from the industry.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

No, you've read it wrong, there is no written evidence of the ABS light because it was removed prior to the introduction of the legislation covering passenger transport vehicles, when I first started, discovered the problem and spoke to management and the mechanic about it, all we had to do was turn up, start the vehicle and drive off, there was no official reporting procedure.
Soon after the globe was removed and it passed inspection the new laws came in and we then had to tick off things like oil, p/s fluid, coolant, brake fluid, wipers and washers, brake lights, head and taillights, indicators, clearance lights, reverse lights, windscreen condition and tyre condition and pressures.
Up until the vehicle was taken off the road recently the 'warning light' box was ticked as compliant because there was no globe to give a warning.

Now you could argue that the inspection which it failed would point to there being a problem from that far back, but seeing as its passed twice since, no one at the inspection station is going to admit they failed to pick up the missing globe so they'll all say it was ok on both those occasions and has gone missing since, im not silly, I know how it works.
Interestingly the last two on the list, windscreen and tyres have been removed from the check list...after people started reporting issues, so now those cracks and questionable tyres no longer have a place to be reported...
Would those forms then stand up to scruitiny if something we're to happen, no way as tyre condition is mandatory, but im guessing they're not worried about the 'what if's' and focussing on the 'get out there and drive without costing us money'.

Jobs..lol, you don't live in SA do you...

Anyhow, that's enough for me on the topic, I didn't come in here to blow any whistles, I just came in to suggest that its the pressures to either put your **** on the line in suspect vehicles or deal with the fallout of highlighting the issues which is turning people away from the industry.

Righto, well I did use your example to explain how the CoR will clear you of any wrong doing and place the onus on the half **** mechanic who’d be before the courts if something major was to happen. I think in 2020 what happened back then as far as lack of rules and regulation or transport companies systematic failures go is irrelevant. So I think it’s safe to say we can leave it as that.
No I don’t live in SA. But we are looking for 2/1 FIFO MC drivers outa Adelaide up by the NT boarder if you are interested...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by smoo

Righto, well I did use your example to explain how the CoR will clear you of any wrong doing and place the onus on the half **** mechanic who’d be before the courts if something major was to happen. I think in 2020 what happened back then as far as lack of rules and regulation or transport companies systematic failures go is irrelevant. So I think it’s safe to say we can leave it as that.
No I don’t live in SA. But we are looking for 2/1 FIFO MC drivers outa Adelaide up by the NT boarder if you are interested...

All good, unfortunately im only HR with Synchro restriction as that's all I needed when I went through the testing, have kicked myself ever since as the extra few hundred dollars then would have been a lot easier to swallow than another 2.5k now to upgrade, but thanks for the heads up.
Mind you, i'd probably recoup that in the first month up there no doubt.

[Trevor 57]

Me, driving a rig around for a photo shoot. A bit chunkier then hahahaha



Roger might remember me from those days

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Me, driving a rig around for a photo shoot. A bit chunkier then hahahaha

image

Roger might remember me from those days

Nah, I stayed away from Shepp, too many fruit pickers trying to drive cars

[Trevor 57]

Good idea

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Nah, I stayed away from Shepp, too many fruit pickers trying to drive cars

Quite a lot in Wagga too.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Nah, I stayed away from Shepp, too many fruit pickers trying to drive cars

We got the opposite problem, plenty of tea pickers driving trucks in Melbourne

[tbro4123]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Ok, now I have a little more time I'll elaborate.
NHV laws we're introduced to passenger transport in SA on 1/10/18 I believe, so whilst it may have been around for a lot longer, it's only new to this section of the heavy vehicle industry.
I'll give you an example of how the system should work and why it doesn't.
I began driving passenger transport prior to the introduction of the legislation, I noted on my first day that the ABS light on the dash was illuminated and discussed it firstly with the person who had been driving it and then with our mechanic and was told it was a sensor and not to worry about it.
Fast forward a month and its due it's 12 monthly inspection which it fails due to the ABS problem.
The vehicle is returned to the depot at which time I'm grilled for not letting anyone know, I then explained that it had been illuminated since before I began driving it and called on the former driver who occurred.
When I arrived later that afternoon the mechanic came over with a big grin on his face saying he'd fixed the problem, I turned the ignition on and no light came on, now to average Joe it would appear that he did infact fix it, but being vehicle savvy I knew straight away that all he'd done is removed the globe as it should illuminate on ignition to prove it's working and extinguish once started.
I said this to him and he snarled and stormed off, the vehicle was Re- booked for inspection and passed...
A few weeks later I found myself in a situation where I needed to brake heavily in the wet, the rear end locked immediately and I slid whilst pumping the peddle for a good 50m luckily avoiding the obstacle, the ABS didn't work at all.
Soon after that the legislation was introduced and that vehicle has been getting around with faulty brakes whilst being signed off as compliant for approximately 18 months and has even been through a second inspection.

The industry is cut throat and whilst legislation is put in place with good intentions it can only work if the person on the bottom rung of the ladder, the driver, feels comfortable and secure enough in his job with support from those up the chain that any issues will be managed appropriately.

Now I understand why you defend it so strongly if you we're required to preach it to business, but from someone on the other end of the chain at the coal face it is a very different story and again, I doubt I'm a pioneer on the subject.

I'm going to ask one question, did you fill out a defect report and report it to operations, if not why not? Bus operators have been required to have defect books and pre start check list since the 90"s

Not trying to be a smart ****, but I run all the workshops for a multi-state bus group and its my job to among others to make sure that ANY and ALL defects are reported and recorded and that my workshop staff repair all defects that involve any safety issues before that vehicle can leave the depot. Doing it this way protects Clients (our passengers feral or not)the drivers and mechanics and the company from having faulty vehicles on the road leaving us liable.

Based in QLD our coaches,school buses and urbans all get inspected every 6 months by QLD Transport (over the pits) every 6 to 12 months we get a transport NHVR audit which includes paperwork, service intervals etc etc. Also having government contracts (Translink in QLD) also means more scrutiny from big brother.

Our MD has this idea that to run a successful company you need to worry about 3 things 1/ SAFETY 2/ Reliability 3/ Cost. I do my job properly and make sure the first 2 are covered the final one is assured.

Anyway I hope BENT 8 that your company has pulled their head out of their bums and are doing the right thing, and if you want a job in QLD give me a yell.

Stay safe

Terry aka Tbro

[Trevor 57]

nah, easier to get the internet and have a whinge

I was involved in the very early days here in Victoria, setting up a system for self-regulation which included all the mandatory sign offs for vehicle checks etc

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by tbro4123

I'm going to ask one question, did you fill out a defect report and report it to operations, if not why not? Bus operators have been required to have defect books and pre start check list since the 90"s

Of coarse I did, the bus was also rejected by regency Park at its annual inspection, they just pulled the globe out and said it was fixed and to 99% of drivers they wouldn't have a clue, however, being a car guy I knew that the light should illuminate when the ignition is switched on and then go out, the first time I turned the key after it had been 'fixed' I saw what they'd done.
If that was their response to that issue, what chance do you think I had of getting it fixed without the globe glowing?
Like I said, it went for another annual inspection before it came off the road and passed without question, if the Government inspectors didn't pick it up and ask that it be rectified, what chance have I.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

nah, easier to get the internet and have a whinge

I was involved in the very early days here in Victoria, setting up a system for self-regulation which included all the mandatory sign offs for vehicle checks etc

Get stuffed Trev.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Get stuffed Trev.

You forgot the Smilie at the end.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

You forgot the Smilie at the end.

Its in isolation, with a Mexican beer in one hand and a slice of lemon in the other.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Get stuffed Trev.

have a great day

[Franco Cozzo]

Seems obvious they don't run diagnostic scans at inspection, I'm guessing it's just a mechanical check for tyres and obvious signs of wear and out the door she goes?

[smoo]

They were suppose to be checking for this more often...

https://www.bigrigs.com.au/news/nhvr...pping/3862456/

Too bad that can be achieved via $300 pirated software and data link adaptor from eBay/aliexpress/China.
Although if they targeted trucks that have been deleted they'd probably have to park up half of the country's fleet.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by smoo

They were suppose to be checking for this more often...

https://www.bigrigs.com.au/news/nhvr...pping/3862456/

Too bad that can be achieved via $300 pirated software and data link adaptor from eBay/aliexpress/China.
Although if they targeted trucks that have been deleted they'd probably have to park up half of the country's fleet.

You wouldn't be able to confirm if it's been remapped without access to the OE diagnostic equipment, an aftermarket SAE J1939 scanner won't do anything aside from check for DTCs, clear and allow some basic diagnostic work.

NHVR can run about with a diagnostic scanner as much as they want but it won't give you conclusive evidence.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

You wouldn't be able to confirm without access to the OE diagnostic equipment, an aftermarket SAE J1939 scanner won't do anything aside from check for DTCs, clear and allow some basic diagnostic work.

The pirated gear usually has dealer level access so can carry out emissions control tests to confirm (i.e., adblue dosage test etc).
A generic 1939 scanner should show live data. One might be able to tell things aren't what they should be depending how its deleted. Say, an inconsistent temp reading.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by smoo

The pirated gear usually has dealer level access so can carry out emissions control tests to confirm (i.e., adblue dosage test etc).
A generic 1939 scanner should show live data. One might be able to tell things aren't what they should be depending how its deleted. Say, an inconsistent temp reading.

Scanner will check live data and someone clued up would have an idea but it wouldn't hold up if it went to court because it's assumptions and a theory rather than proof.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

NHVR can run about with a diagnostic scanner as much as they want but it won't give you conclusive evidence.

Depends what they are looking for and how anal they want to be.
Referring to that article changing the speed limit isn't re mapping. It is simply changing parameter/s in the ECM.
The owner or driver could plead ignorance. Who ever did it would be nearly impossible to trace. Who ever did it should cover their marks - laptops leave 'signatures' on the ECM and record what has been done and when.
AFAIK its not illegal to set speed limit on ECM above the road speed limit.

Some deletes are blatantly obvious - the mob I'm at have a couple of Euro 5 spec trucks but we've dropped Euro 2 spec equivalent engine into them.
Two trucks have Euro 5 engines but have been re mapped to delete Adblue. So they don't have the Adblue/DPF muffler or Adblue tanks.
Be hard explaining that to the authorities.

Instead of authorities putting pressure on transport operators they should be making sure truck and engine companies give lifetime warranty on their lemon emission control systems. We run a fleet of 25 trucks and literally not a day goes by when we don't get one through the shop for ad blue dramas.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Scanner will check live data and someone clued up would have an idea but it wouldn't hold up if it went to court because it's assumptions and a theory rather than proof.

I don't know how far they would go.
If they grounded the truck then and there and had the dealer come out to check and confirm, or pulled the ECM off to send away, that would be all the proof they needed.

[Franco Cozzo]

Its talking about the US but its interesting - how does interstate freight work in Australia?

How long does it take to do Melbourne to Perth or Perth to Sydney, Perth to Brisbane etc.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

.... how does interstate freight work in Australia?

How long does it take to do Melbourne to Perth or Perth to Sydney, Perth to Brisbane etc.

I'm in logistics in the steel industry. Product going from the east coast to Perth is either on a train or increasingly a ship, a car-carrier, after they have unloaded all the new Hilux and Rangers for QLD, NSW and VIC.