Dearborn claims the Ford Aus archives - Page 2

2011G6E · 05-09-2016, 08:31 PM

Hah...people thinking it's "our stuff"...

Ford never has been and never will be an "Australian company"...it's a small subsidiary arm of the American parent company.

roddy1960 · 05-09-2016, 10:25 PM

[QUOTE=2011G6E;5761087]Hah...people thinking it's "our stuff"...

Ford never has been and never will be an "Australian company"...it's a small subsidiary arm of the American parent company.[/QUOTE....G'day 2011G6E..

It might be a 'subsidiary' but it's our bloody cars .. thanks to our expertise , our personnel , our guts and determination to fight the parent for this long. I'm proud of what the Australian arm of Ford US produced..Aren't you ? Cheers Rod..

zoesgift · 05-09-2016, 10:36 PM

I agree it does belong to Ford ,however the historical significance of much of it , in my opinion needs to be shared at the very least....

HO 3 · 06-09-2016, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoesgift

I agree it does belong to Ford ,however the historical significance of much of it , in my opinion needs to be shared at the very least....

As a previous poster alluded to, in the future we may have to go through Kevin Marti in the States for basic option info on your GT or HO

................time to pay the ferryman I guess...............

Cheers Mick

Bill M · 06-09-2016, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Hah...people thinking it's "our stuff"...

Ford never has been and never will be an "Australian company"...it's a small subsidiary arm of the American parent company.

The efforts by Ford Australia during WWII for defence are entirely Australian.
Lew Bandt, the innovative designer of the ute was Australian.
The unique Falcon and Territory built by Australians for Australians give legitimacy to the claim. This historical collection belongs here.
Once it's gone its gone forever.
Bill.

Vesper Martini · 06-09-2016, 02:59 PM

If it wasn't for Ford US, theses archives will eventually disappear and be forgotten about

"Ford wants to centralise its global archive in a new facility in Dearborn that meets international ISO preservation standards, meaning controlled temperatures. The archive has about 9.7kms of shelving, in 2325sq metres of archival storage area."

sounds like a good place to put archives to me

You have to realise that most of this stuff would be meeting minutes etc and hasn't been looked at for years, if there is anything of value, there's no point it sitting in a box at Broadmeadows.

Wretched · 06-09-2016, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

If it wasn't for Ford US, theses archives will eventually disappear and be forgotten about

"Ford wants to centralise its global archive in a new facility in Dearborn that meets international ISO preservation standards, meaning controlled temperatures. The archive has about 9.7kms of shelving, in 2325sq metres of archival storage area."

sounds like a good place to put archives to me

You have to realise that most of this stuff would be meeting minutes etc and hasn't been looked at for years, if there is anything of value, there's no point it sitting in a box at Broadmeadows.

Adding to this, being centralised, it should, in theory, be far easier to track items down, instead of having to contact each individual outpost who, wouldn't keep the items to such a standard.

DanielXR8 · 09-09-2016, 01:20 PM

The records would be better preserved in the US and the risk of any great projects that never got off the ground or had merit, but were clearly linked to US interests stopping them. Well no one will be finding out about them, least of all Australian journalists. Win for Ford HQ.

Sprintey · 09-09-2016, 04:44 PM

Ford's Australian motoring history will be safer in the Detroit area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A38ZhuhuGQ

Wretched · 09-09-2016, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Ford's Australian motoring history will be safer in the Detroit area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A38ZhuhuGQ

Looks like Broadmeadows

I suppose Ford is consistent at least.

Bill M · 10-09-2016, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

If it wasn't for Ford US, theses archives will eventually disappear and be forgotten about

"Ford wants to centralise its global archive in a new facility in Dearborn that meets international ISO preservation standards, meaning controlled temperatures. The archive has about 9.7kms of shelving, in 2325sq metres of archival storage area."

sounds like a good place to put archives to me

You have to realise that most of this stuff would be meeting minutes etc and hasn't been looked at for years, if there is anything of value, there's no point it sitting in a box at Broadmeadows.

Read this book and then have a rethink.

Ford Australia: The Cars and the People That Built Them

hackney · 10-09-2016, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill M

Read this book and then have a rethink.

Ford Australia: The Cars and the People That Built Them

It is their "intellectual" property.They have a right to put/store it where they like.As I quoted in a previous post,who set up Ford Australia?(or more to the point,who really "own's" Ford Aus?)I will leave it with you.Cheers

gcg2503 · 10-09-2016, 09:46 AM

I make the following comments with respect to the Ford CRC reports:

I would rather pay Kevin Marti in the US and get a vehicle report that is factually correct.

The staff at Ford CRC whilst helpful, do not know how to extract any meaningful and/or correct data from the records held at Ford HQ.

The last two Ford CRC reports I have requested have had material errors.

roddy1960 · 10-09-2016, 10:39 AM

G'day Cobra .
First of all ,thanks for your comments. At least your comments weren't nasty and totally sarcastic like the other bloke's was. The reason I responded like I did was because of his attitude . He made me angry as you probably noticed.
I take your comments on board and while I don't totally agree given that these forum replies aren't essays needed to be graded for composition standards , I will try to avoid messy grammar in the future.

I write voluntarily for our local newspaper by the way and there I have to be a lot fussier by the very nature of the format. The Forum is a release from that and where I often space or indent certain things is to emphasize things I want to say. A mistake perhaps and I'll try to be more particular about how I add posts. The Forum is just fun and intended for us to add our two cents worth on a vast array of subjects but point taken.
.
The other fellow's comments were not appreciated because all he needed to do was to write them more akin to yours , not in the degrading way he did so.
There is fun sarcastic and degrading sarcastic . His was definitely the latter. Now please lets get back on topic , not my terrible writing skills.

Cheers Rod.

Bill M · 10-09-2016, 11:17 AM

The "intellectual property" corporate line is understood and the obvious baseline.
The whole point of the first post was to look beyond the Corporate blah blah!

I am very familiar with historians who travel to the Benson Centre in Dearborn and understand how difficult it can be for US based researchers to access what they require.
Don't think for a minute that there will be a flow of archival data coming back.

If the archives go then "Ford Australia: The Cars and the People That Built Them" will be the last book we get on that subject.
Thankfully there are former Ford Aus staff who have foresight and are working to retain as much as possible for Australian posterity.
Thank you to those that get it!

cheers
Bill.

**Giant Cranium** · 10-09-2016, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day Cobra .
First of all ,thanks for your comments. At least your comments weren't nasty and totally sarcastic like the other bloke's was. The reason I responded like I did was because of his attitude . He made me angry as you probably noticed.
I take your comments on board and while I don't totally agree given that these forum replies aren't essays needed to be graded for composition standards , I will try to avoid messy grammar in the future.

I write voluntarily for our local newspaper by the way and there I have to be a lot fussier by the very nature of the format. The Forum is a release from that and where I often space or indent certain things is to emphasize things I want to say. A mistake perhaps and I'll try to be more particular about how I add posts. The Forum is just fun and intended for us to add our two cents worth on a vast array of subjects but point taken.
.
The other fellow's comments were not appreciated because all he needed to do was to write them more akin to yours , not in the degrading way he did so.
There is fun sarcastic and degrading sarcastic . His was definitely the latter. Now please lets get back on topic , not my terrible writing skills.

Cheers Rod.

roddy1960 · 10-09-2016, 11:55 AM

G'day all , even Giant Cranium
I'll ask something related to this subject that hopefully someone can give me an informed and definitive answer to and in a legal manner.
What actually is INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY in this context ?

When a company claims intellectual property where does it start and finish ? In Ford Australia's case as the subsidiary do the thoughts , inputs , outputs ,unique Aussie developments and other things related to all Ford vehicles built here since 1925 automatically become direct property of the Ford U.S. parent company ?

If so , that's fine in a legal sense but for me good will should play a huge part of Ford Australia ceasing local manufacturing , now only three weeks away.
The very least Ford U.S. should do in that regard is to show full support for our Australian developed cars being recognized as a success for a long period of time and the ingenuity along with it. For the special cars and artifacts in our heritage fleet let's hope that they give assurance that they'll never need to be removed to elsewhere. If so , only on loan.

I'd like also to think that on or about October 7th someone from the USA will get on a big silver bird and come here to visit the real home of the Ford's own bird (Falcon) of course and personally thank and appreciate the hard work of the Aussies who provided us with a car that has done us proud for 56 years. I looked it up recently and found that over three million Falcons have graced our roads since 1960. that's over 54,000 a year for well over half a century or in excess of a thousand a week in a small market by world standards. That's a pretty good thing.
Then you add in locally assembled marques under the Blue Oval banner that have come out of the factories from OZ. Pay due respects Ford U.S. as a good parent. Show appropriate good will regardless of intellectual property matters.

Cheers Rod.

Maka · 10-09-2016, 12:20 PM

One thought for Ford - your lasting legacy in Australia when you leave? Imo IP is not part of the lasting legacy but to leave fruits of their IP here is what its about. In other words trade secrets / IP/ legal stuff is boring, the things they built with the IP is what counts.

cheer's, Maka

Syndrome · 10-09-2016, 01:32 PM

They want to hide from Australians any evidence of how Dearborn undermined the local operation end engineered the demise of the Ford Falcon and thus Ford Australia's design and manufacturing operations. **** the septics.

hackney · 10-09-2016, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day all , even Giant Cranium
I'll ask something related to this subject that hopefully someone can give me an informed and definitive answer to and in a legal manner.
What actually is INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY in this context ?

When a company claims intellectual property where does it start and finish ? In Ford Australia's case as the subsidiary do the thoughts , inputs , outputs ,unique Aussie developments and other things related to all Ford vehicles built here since 1925 automatically become direct property of the Ford U.S. parent company ?

If so , that's fine in a legal sense but for me good will should play a huge part of Ford Australia ceasing local manufacturing , now only three weeks away.
The very least Ford U.S. should do in that regard is to show full support for our Australian developed cars being recognized as a success for a long period of time and the ingenuity along with it. For the special cars and artifacts in our heritage fleet let's hope that they give assurance that they'll never need to be removed to elsewhere. If so , only on loan.

I'd like also to think that on or about October 7th someone from the USA will get on a big silver bird and come here to visit the real home of the Ford's own bird (Falcon) of course and personally thank and appreciate the hard work of the Aussies who provided us with a car that has done us proud for 56 years. I looked it up recently and found that over three million Falcons have graced our roads since 1960. that's over 54,000 a year for well over half a century or in excess of a thousand a week in a small market by world standards. That's a pretty good thing.
Then you add in locally assembled marques under the Blue Oval banner that have come out of the factories from OZ. Pay due respects Ford U.S. as a good parent. Show appropriate good will regardless of intellectual property matters.

Cheers Rod.

Well considering Ford USA "set up" the local operation I should imagine that they have "intellectual" property rights from go to whoa. Only makes sense don't you think? After all they do own the company(& that would be "worldwide") only stands to reason.It's a "no brainer" Cheers

roddy1960 · 10-09-2016, 07:27 PM

G'day all..Regardless of who actually owns what and granted Ford US/worldwide does by the sound of it , what about good will ?"
Some might say it's not worth a crumpet , others might argue that it is worth a lot.
I'm definitely in the latter camp in this regard because if they (Ford) want continuing support and keep buying the fully imported fare , then maybe it'd be a good idea if they at least look like they're not wiping us like a dirty bum.

A cynic might think that they couldn't give a rats about us given the small volume they'll probably sell from 2017 onwards but an optimist might ponder that once Falcon/Territory is gone from showrooms , then Mondeo, Focus , Kuga ,Everest , Ranger and anything I've forgotten will get more than a glancing look . That's of course if they get Miss Jigglehips to sell fridges instead of cars. No wonder sales are down with such namby pamby advertising.
Hey Ford , GOOD WILL PLEASE...
Cheers Rod.

Nikked · 10-09-2016, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome

They want to hide from Australians any evidence of how Dearborn undermined the local operation end engineered the demise of the Ford Falcon and thus Ford Australia's design and manufacturing operations. **** the septics.

Yeah...because it was Ford alone that killed the car industry

Wretched · 10-09-2016, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome

They want to hide from Australians any evidence of how Dearborn undermined the local operation end engineered the demise of the Ford Falcon and thus Ford Australia's design and manufacturing operations. **** the septics.

Syndrome · 10-09-2016, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Yeah...because it was Ford alone that killed the car industry

It was the straw that broke the camel's back fool. Once Ford shut up shop the other two were always going to follow.

NX74205 · 10-09-2016, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

When a company claims intellectual property where does it start and finish ? In Ford Australia's case as the subsidiary do the thoughts , inputs , outputs ,unique Aussie developments and other things related to all Ford vehicles built here since 1925 automatically become direct property of the Ford U.S. parent company ?

Depends on whether there is a contract between Ford Motor Company of Australia Limited and Ford Motor Company. Otherwise, there is no automatic assignment of IP from Ford Australia to its parent company without anything in writing. I would expect that there would be because it would be prudent to have IP centralised, and in exchange, Ford grants Ford Australia a licence to use its IP (including trade marks and branding) to build cars here.

Any IP that is developed by Ford Australia's employees belong to Ford Australia. It doesn't matter whether "Aussie ingenuity" brought various Falcons and Territories to life, it belongs to Ford Australia, and depending on whether or not there is a contract to assign IP between Ford Australia and the parent company, it is highly likely that Ford Australia IP is assigned to Ford.

But let's get one thing straight: this thread isn't about IP, it's about Ford Australia's archives. IP is intangible; the physical archives are not IP, although it may contain IP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

If so , that's fine in a legal sense but for me good will should play a huge part of Ford Australia ceasing local manufacturing , now only three weeks away.
The very least Ford U.S. should do in that regard is to show full support for our Australian developed cars being recognized as a success for a long period of time and the ingenuity along with it. For the special cars and artifacts in our heritage fleet let's hope that they give assurance that they'll never need to be removed to elsewhere. If so , only on loan.

Again, it's not ours. It never was. It's Ford's. It doesn't matter where it was developed, or where it was built, fact of the matter is that they're part of Ford's history and they'll store them where they see fit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

I'd like also to think that on or about October 7th someone from the USA will get on a big silver bird and come here to visit the real home of the Ford's own bird (Falcon) of course and personally thank and appreciate the hard work of the Aussies who provided us with a car that has done us proud for 56 years. I looked it up recently and found that over three million Falcons have graced our roads since 1960. that's over 54,000 a year for well over half a century or in excess of a thousand a week in a small market by world standards. That's a pretty good thing.
Then you add in locally assembled marques under the Blue Oval banner that have come out of the factories from OZ. Pay due respects Ford U.S. as a good parent. Show appropriate good will regardless of intellectual property matters.

Cheers Rod.

Sigh ... it has been very well reported that there will be an internal event for departing Ford Australia employees. We're not privy to the details of the event as it will only be for departing employees. Let's leave it at that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day all..Regardless of who actually owns what and granted Ford US/worldwide does by the sound of it , what about good will ?"
Some might say it's not worth a crumpet , others might argue that it is worth a lot.
I'm definitely in the latter camp in this regard because if they (Ford) want continuing support and keep buying the fully imported fare , then maybe it'd be a good idea if they at least look like they're not wiping us like a dirty bum.

You mean the fact that they've invested countless billions building cars here since 1925?

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

A cynic might think that they couldn't give a rats about us given the small volume they'll probably sell from 2017 onwards but an optimist might ponder that once Falcon/Territory is gone from showrooms , then Mondeo, Focus , Kuga ,Everest , Ranger and anything I've forgotten will get more than a glancing look . That's of course if they get Miss Jigglehips to sell fridges instead of cars. No wonder sales are down with such namby pamby advertising.
Hey Ford , GOOD WILL PLEASE...
Cheers Rod.

Actually, Ford sales are on the way up. You might want to check your facts.

wodahs · 10-09-2016, 08:18 PM

huh
ill have to go look at the badges on my cars again now
as all the fords ive owned I thought the badges only said FORD
but will re check my explorer for the Ford U.S. badge and my zh fairlane for the Ford Australia badge and the Everest for the , where was it made ????

hackney · 11-09-2016, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day all..Regardless of who actually owns what and granted Ford US/worldwide does by the sound of it , what about good will ?"
Some might say it's not worth a crumpet , others might argue that it is worth a lot.
I'm definitely in the latter camp in this regard because if they (Ford) want continuing support and keep buying the fully imported fare , then maybe it'd be a good idea if they at least look like they're not wiping us like a dirty bum.

A cynic might think that they couldn't give a rats about us given the small volume they'll probably sell from 2017 onwards but an optimist might ponder that once Falcon/Territory is gone from showrooms , then Mondeo, Focus , Kuga ,Everest , Ranger and anything I've forgotten will get more than a glancing look . That's of course if they get Miss Jigglehips to sell fridges instead of cars. No wonder sales are down with such namby pamby advertising.
Hey Ford , GOOD WILL PLEASE...
Cheers Rod.

"GoodWill" are you for real? It's a business & run as a business. If you have bothered to check the Current VFacts,Ford has actually increased in sales.(as a previous poster alluded to.)Is it time for you perhap's to change manufacturer?Cheers

roddy1960 · 11-09-2016, 10:16 AM

G'day Hackney.. ..You are missing the point entirely ..ARE YOU FOR REAL .
First of all , You can't be serious that good will , although intangible doesn't contribute to sales ..That's why people have brand loyalty over several cars in this case..Because of good will people will continue to return to a company or dealership as much as anything. C'mon..

Maybe it's time to run a Poll on whether people like this advertising or not. I think that if Ford had been able to spend the money to do a proper ad campaign focussing on the entire Ford range like the very successful
"Have you driven a Ford..lately " or 'We're moving with you " then the sales would never have dipped as far as they did in the past decade or so.

Yes , I have seen that V Facts that show Ford trending up this year . THAT'S GOOD .. Equally there was a time that instead of being down in the mid to bottom half of the top 10 manufacturers , it was perennially in the top three. I think it's 4th or 5th now.

I've been educated over time that one reason for this is that Ford didn't listen soon enough that it's mainstay seller Falcon wasn't what buyers wanted anymore. Fleet sales plummeted too. Have you ever seen them do a proper concerted campaign on other cars in the range to specifically target a market segment since the heady days of market leadership and especially since thye market is cluttered with a bigger choice than ever.

I can't really recall a proper ad campaign on Kuga , Focus , Everest etc , definitely nothing much on Mondeo yet. The closest I've seen Ford target one of it's vehicles outside of the ads we see now using our blue dress lady is the Ranger. They have run an ad or two on them .Surprise surprise Ranger is far away Ford's best seller in Oz , probably 40-45% of total FA sales currently. That was once the domain of the mighty Falcon.

MAYBE..This will change soon with the totally 'fully imported ' range..
MAYBE Ford will release the purse strings and try and sell more Focus , Mondeo , Kuga , Everest etc too.. Let's hope so. Wouldn't it be good to see Ford not 4th or 5th but one of the top two or three again

MAYBE then , my good will to the brand I have stuck with for so long will continue when I'm ready to buy my next car in the future..I hope so.

Cheers Rod..

Nikked · 11-09-2016, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome

It was the straw that broke the camel's back fool. Once Ford shut up shop the other two were always going to follow.

So what about Chrysler, Nissan, Mitsubishi...

Ford weren't the straw on the camels back, if you truly believe that, then you yourself, are indeed the fool....

hackney · 11-09-2016, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day Hackney.. ..You are missing the point entirely ..ARE YOU FOR REAL .
First of all , You can't be serious that good will , although intangible doesn't contribute to sales ..That's why people have brand loyalty over several cars in this case..Because of good will people will continue to return to a company or dealership as much as anything. C'mon..

Maybe it's time to run a Poll on whether people like this advertising or not. I think that if Ford had been able to spend the money to do a proper ad campaign focussing on the entire Ford range like the very successful
"Have you driven a Ford..lately " or 'We're moving with you " then the sales would never have dipped as far as they did in the past decade or so.

Yes , I have seen that V Facts that show Ford trending up this year . THAT'S GOOD .. Equally there was a time that instead of being down in the mid to bottom half of the top 10 manufacturers , it was perennially in the top three. I think it's 4th or 5th now.
I've been educated over time that one reason for this is that Ford didn't listen soon enough that it's mainstay seller Falcon wasn't what buyers wanted anymore. Fleet sales plummeted too. Have you ever seen them do a proper concerted campaign on other cars in the range to specifically target a market segment since the heady days of market leadership and especially since thye market is cluttered with a bigger choice from overseas.
I can't really recall a proper ad on Kuga , Focus , Everest etc , definitely nothing much on Mondeo yet. The closest I've seen Ford target one of it's vehicles outside of the ads we see now using our blue dress lady is the Ranger. They have run an ad or two on them .Surprise surprise Ranger is far away Ford's best seller in Oz , probably 40-45% of total FA sales currently. That was once the domain of the mighty Falcon.

MAYBE..This will change soon with the totally 'fully imported ' range..
MAYBE Ford will release the purse strings and try and sell more Focus , Mondeo , Kuga , Everest etc too.. Let's hope so. Wouldn't it be good to see Ford not 4th or 5th but one of the top two or three again

MAYBE then , my good will to the brand I have stuck with for so long will continue when I'm ready to buy my next car in the future..I hope so.

Cheers Rod..

People have moved on from Falcon(certainly not "mighty") there are so much better vehicles in the market place,Ford lacked "vision" quite a few years ago(& in my opinion "lost their way"& I would be close to the mark on this one.)Doubt they will ever be a #1 again.That is now the domain of the Japanese & Korean's. Should have "dumped" Falcon quite awhile ago."Brand Loyalty"?Obviously Ford do not have that any more do they? Otherwise, they would be selling a lot more vehicles than they do now.The only saving "grace" for them at the moment is Ranger,otherwise they would be in one hell of a mess.Saying that,their range of vehicles is quite good,but the buying public are purchasing a lot more of other brands.I doubt I will go back to them,in the foreseeable future.(& I have had many,many over the years.)Cheers