The State Governments plan to crush hoons' cars after third offence. - Page 2

left · 23-01-2010, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Mr Baillieu said forfeiture of a car would not occur if the “registered operator or owner of a vehicle can prove the offence was committed without their knowledge or consent".

Impounding would not occur in cases of stolen or hired vehicles either.

I see a loophole here. Mates swapping cars and going separate ways claiming they don't know what the other is up to...? How can it be proven otherwise? Onus is on the cops as always. How hard to they have to make it to do their job...

On another note about baiting by unmarked cop cars: if you are silly enough not to be able to spot an unmarked car then you deserve everything you get. No sympathy from me ;)

b0son · 23-01-2010, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PANELCORP

Too many lives have been shattered by hoons

How many? Shouldnt be hard to back it up with some numbers if the problem is as widespread as you claim... ?

chrisfpv · 23-01-2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PANELCORP

I support the idea of selling the vehicles and giving the proceeds from sale to the people left disabled from an accident or to the families of those killed in an accident.

As do I.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

so as long as i make sure i always owe some money on my car, they can't crush it?

It does sound like that doesn't it buy surely it wouldn't be that easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by left

On another note about baiting by unmarked cop cars: if you are silly enough not to be able to spot an unmarked car then you deserve everything you get. No sympathy from me

I thought the point of an unmarked police car was to blend in and catch people doing things they wouldn't do infront of a patrol car? Maybe it's just me, but spotting an unmarked car isn't something that I excel in. Unless there's something on the unmarked cars that people should be looking out for that i am unaware of?

Bobman · 23-01-2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6AUS

I thought the point of an unmarked police car was to blend in and catch people doing things they wouldn't do infront of a patrol car? Maybe it's just me, but spotting an unmarked car isn't something that I excel in. Unless there's something on the unmarked cars that people should be looking out for that i am unaware of?

They're fairly easy to pick. It was much easier years ago, but it's not overly difficult to spot one in traffic.

Unless it's an FG F6 in Melbourne with custom plates. See here: http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/archive/.../t-122265.html

4Vman · 23-01-2010, 12:29 PM

SSG 01 is a regular on citylink.
The thing about unmarked cars is if you're not speeding you dont need to worry about them!

EDManual · 23-01-2010, 12:30 PM

drunk driving is the worst offence by far causing many times more deaths than hooning ever did, why are they so lenient on that? Its because it wouldn't be popular for votes as so many people like to drink....

And that guy who killed himself and 5 others worst crime is the drunk driving bit, not the hooning... thats a consequence of being drunk.

Whitey-AMG · 23-01-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PANELCORP

I support the idea of selling the vehicles and giving the proceeds from sale to the people left disabled from an accident or to the families of those killed in an accident.

I agree but it all depends on the type of vehicle being impounded and resold i guess.....

Last thing you want is to make some highly modified cars re available to potential new hoons at a cut price...........

I think the symbolism of getting the car crushed sends a quite different message........not sure if its the right one to implement............time will tell of course.

chrisfpv · 23-01-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobman

They're fairly easy to pick. It was much easier years ago, but it's not overly difficult to spot one in traffic.

Unless it's an FG F6 in Melbourne with custom plates. See here: http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/archive/.../t-122265.html

I'm actually suprised after reading that thread on ls1, thanks.

jmack · 23-01-2010, 01:23 PM

the only prob with the hoon laws is that they keep classifying more and more offenses under the heading of hoon.soon any offense to do with a vehicle and you will be classified as a hoon.how many people are you going kill by not wearing seatbelt ,none.something has to be done but try enforcing the laws that are there first.for a start there are restrictions for p platers vehicles that never seem to be enforced ,was at the drags a couple of years ago and a p plater was doing mid 10s in his vl which was the car he drove there. i know it wouldnt help in a lot of cases but police presence on the road would.the govt cant have it both ways on one hand they want minor offences to kepp the fines rolling in but carry on about major offenses.and did dep commisioner lay get his car impounded for speeding as he clearly stated that he was menace to the road ,guess not

kezzer · 23-01-2010, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

How many? Shouldnt be hard to back it up with some numbers if the problem is as widespread as you claim... ?

Too bloody right.

How many accidents are contributed to "hooning" compared to drink driving, un-roadworthy cars, fatigue, unlicensed drivers etc??

Not many I would say.

Bobman · 23-01-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6AUS

I'm actually suprised after reading that thread on ls1, thanks.

More to read here: http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/showthread.php?t=182012

left · 23-01-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6AUS

I thought the point of an unmarked police car was to blend in and catch people doing things they wouldn't do infront of a patrol car? Maybe it's just me, but spotting an unmarked car isn't something that I excel in. Unless there's something on the unmarked cars that people should be looking out for that i am unaware of?

They're very easy to spot (at least in Melbs where I do most of my driving). They'll have lights on either side of the front dash and rear near the speakers and typically some extra antennae too although not always. The lights are small and rather inconspicuous but still easy to spot if you're in the habit of checking your rear view mirror. From behind there's really no excuse not to notice them as it is very very obvious. I dunno, maybe I pay too much attention to other ppls cars!

EDIT see someone else had already responded.

left · 23-01-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The thing about unmarked cars is if you're not speeding you dont need to worry about them!

Too true!

coupe king · 23-01-2010, 03:19 PM

First of all my condolances to the familys and friends of anyone affected by the recent fatal road accidents. No one likes to hear or see these tradgedies happen no matter what the cause, and there are many.

My first point is would the cops crush the concrete truck that whilst trying to overtake a slower truck presumably going under the 100 kph speed limit killed 2 local family members near kilmore yesterday. I THINK NOT!!! (as you all know probably not hooning in a truck).

But it goes to show a point that people die on the roads (not just from hooning) but from driver error amongst other things. I wasn,t witness to this accident so I don't want to comment who was at fault. But I know form traveling that road twice daily for years at different times of day and night that it is a dangerous road like every other in exsistance.

Most of my close calls come from driver error (other driver errors that is). I have had more poss fatal close calls on that road and other roads from people who have no idea how to drive, brake, overtake, maintain the posted speed limit, merge on a highway (and the list goes on) or drive a vehicle accordingly to the traffic conditions rain hail or shine at the time or the vehicle's capability at any time.

I could list diff situations as examples that happen on a regular basis but I would be here all week (and I'm not joking).
I am the first to admit I'm guilty of doing things that are or could possibly be considered being a hoon as I'm sure we all have at some stage. But the amount of times I have had to rely on my skills of car control (possibly gained from being a hoon) which was learn't off road before any one comments , has saved my own life as well as my family, friends and as well as the other idiot that I have had to take avasive action to avoid due to there incompitance as a driver more times than I care to remember.
I wan't to know why it is not compolsery to do an advanced driving course before ,during and after going through the licensing process. Just cause you pass after several lessons doesn't mean you know how to handle the car when something goes wrong under normal driving conditions. Good or bad weather that is.
Insted of teaching algebra in school (who actually use's that in there day to day life ?really!!!) why not teach drivers ed. Something that you actually need later on in life.

As a driver of 18 + years the skills of car control and evasive driving techniques I was taught at slow and fast speeds in a controlled envoironment and some not so controlled by my mother of all people taught me when I was 14-18 and has saved my life and hers literally thousands of times. And I hear you say thousands of times?( do the numbers)

On average in a normal day 100 to 150 kms and one close call per day, not hard in modern current traffic volumes. In one week I would have travelled a minumim of 1,000 km's. That's min 52,000 kms a year. And 365 close calls.
Thats 18yrs x 52,000 kms/pyear = 936,000 kms travelled min. And 18 x 365 close calls a year = 6,570 near misses on average over 18 yrs. All minding your own business going from a to b.
That does not include travelling for holidays, social activities, shopping, towing cars and trailers or just taking the v8 out for a drive cause you can. So I could probably double those figures in reality.
So after learning to drive in a 7.9ltr 460 big block thanks mum close to 2 million kms of all types of driving various cars usally over 5 litres in capacity
(get rather embarressed if seen in anything smaller) I can honestly say that I have caused 1 accident. I backed into neighbours illeagly parked car at night in middle of winter and was foggy at the time. oops my mistake. I have how evr caused some close calls my self .
Please don't think I am arrogant in my own driving ability/faults and the risk or near miss I have put someone else in that they have had to avoid me over the years when I have stuffed up. The few that have happened have been simple driver error (my fault) and most likely caused by lack of consentration or mechanical problem.

Does the government relise that by crushing cars the risk of someone being hurt by drivers doing a runner from police ( to avoid cars being impounded or squashed) whether they deserve it or not or guilty or not will place more innocent lives in danger. It would defeat the point .
I would just like to note that the industrial area around campbellfield vic had a huge decline and then big increase in burn out marks from large groups of young hoons gathering to do burn outs and drag race in and around that area before and after drag tag opened and then closed it's burn out pad. Go figure.!!! Education is the soloution not punishment!!!

PANELCORP · 23-01-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

How many? Shouldnt be hard to back it up with some numbers if the problem is as widespread as you claim... ?

Would have been nice for you to quote my entire sentence

Too many lives have been shattered by hoons, drink driving and drug driving - why destroy the easiest way of giving something back to those who have been hurt in the process

Helps give some context to my position on the topic!!!

Anyway,

I will see if I can dig up the statistics about the number of people charged with Culpable Driving over the last 10 years, that will show you the extent of the number of lives destroyed by idiots behind the wheel (not just hoons)

If you read the balance of my post, you will see that I am as vocal on the issue of Drink Driving and Drug Driving

I personally support Performance cars and the slogan of

"ban low performance drivers, not high performance cars"

There is no perfect answer to this problem and the media spotlight will just force more rushed decisions by incompetent politicians looking to have their name in lights

Fix our driving tests, fix our roads, stop people drinking and driving, stop fatigue and deadline chasing trucks and so on and so on

There are many reasons people die on our roads, hooning is just the one in the media TODAY !!

vztrt · 23-01-2010, 07:09 PM

I was waiting for a knee jerk reaction from the government....and here it is.

jpd80 · 23-01-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

For instance, 24 year old in a GTR in 110km/h zone goes to overtake a truck legally, accelerates to 130m/h, pulls back in and gets done for 20km/h over. Would be classified as a hoon act.

I don't agree with it but according to most of the state RTAs you're not
entitled to break the speed limit to overtake. To call that type of speeding
a hoon act is going too far, a fine and demerit points is adequate.

A few years ago in Queensland, the coppers set up speed cameras
in passing lanes clocking people overtaking in marked lanes!!!!

RACQ and NRMA showed that passing lanes have to be incredibly
long to allow vehicles to over take in safety.

Sounds like politicians jumping to easy solutions, I think they should
talk to the coppers as to how bad behavior should be handled, they
see it every day and probably have a better idea of what really works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PANELCORP

I personally support Performance cars and the slogan of

"ban low performance drivers, not high performance cars"

I remember Dick Johnson quoting that phrase a few years ago.

jpd80 · 23-01-2010, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kezzer

Too bloody right.

How many accidents are contributed to "hooning" compared to drink driving, un-roadworthy cars, fatigue, unlicensed drivers etc??

Not many I would say.

You'd be wrong, many people like to play without thought of consequences.

All irresponsible acts, people guilty of those dangerous practices should have their day in court if they survive...

I recall reading on another forum that 48% of vehicles impounded are Commodores compared to 17% Falcons.

4Vman · 23-01-2010, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

I agree with the laws and all, but I still think there needs to be some major clarrification on what a "Hoon" acts actually is.

For instance, 24 year old in a GTR in 110km/h zone goes to overtake a truck legally, accelerates to 130m/h, pulls back in and gets done for 20km/h over. Would be classified as a hoon act.

80 y/o Grandmother taking sons car out, its a manual F6. Takes off but lets the clutch go a bit to early creating around 1 second of wheelspin. Would they still book her for hooning? If not, if it was a 24 y/o done the same thing, would THIS be classified as hooning?

.

Those examples are absolute BS... you know full well none of that would amount to a "hoon" charge let alone getting a car crushed, you're just over reacting.

Nikked · 23-01-2010, 07:53 PM

Crushing cars is a waste.

The court system and lawyers need to be more harsh, People are getting let off lightly for DUI offences etc.

I say bring on license restricions, if you get caught hooning 3 times, go to zero points for 2 years, .00 limit and log booked trips. Driving kilometers limited to work trips and say 10% of that total for shopping trips etc, reporting to a police station or RTA station to have your books signed and trips recoreded via the odometer reading. Failuler to do so stripps you off your license and back to P-plates for you.

Plainly stupid repeat offenders just loose there license, public transport for them for 5 years. with the government taking there car and selling it.

kezzer · 23-01-2010, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

You'd be wrong, many people like to play without thought of consequences.

All irresponsible acts, people guilty of those dangerous practices should have their day in court if they survive...

I recall reading on another forum that 48% of vehicles impounded are Commodores compared to 17% Falcons.

Feel free to show me the statistics. Most 'hooning' is done at weird hours of the morning like 2am. Definetly more accidents during the day.

People can "hoon" in any car. 5 people died in an XR6 last week, brand or model has nothing to do with this :togo:

prydey · 23-01-2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Those examples are absolute BS... you know full well none of that would amount to a "hoon" charge let alone getting a car crushed, you're just over reacting.

yes it may be an over reaction, but its still a valid question. if an elderly woman and a p plater commited the same offence, would the punishment be the same.

we all know the answer.

police are biased. humans are biased. nothing we can do about it. maybe they should bring in a points based system similar to a tribunal in footy. regardless of who commits the offence, it is the same penalty.

as discussed in another thread, the kids causing the chaos aren't the ones following the rules so regardless of what rules the govt want to bring in, there will always be those who just do what they like anyway.

a datsun 120y will still hit a tree at 100km/h+. you could argue that due to older cars not having the same passive/active safety systems, the speed could be a lot less but the results the same.

its about responsibility and getting it into young kids heads. the only difference between teenagers today and 50 - 100yrs ago is possibly the extent of the drugs and alcohol they go to. esp the drugs. otherwise all generations have been the same in their younger years.

**SSD-85** · 23-01-2010, 08:19 PM

I agree, crushing cars is a waste. What if its a nice car and I want it one day? All this will do is get them into another car, licensed or not and do the same thing.

Hooning is just a term used instead of Dangerous/Incompetent driving. Obviously the media thinks it sounds more demeaning/impacting or whatever. Id bet serious money it wouldnt be called hooning if it were a middle aged person driving a non-performance vehicle, they would use the proper term. But in the same token, i dont see many 40ish year olds doing burnouts in a carpark at 1am in their camry either.

People who insist on driving incompetently (depending on severity) should be locked up, because they are dangerous when present in society, just like the usuals in prison. Intent to cause manslaughter or GBH should apply, thus being the same as anyone doing the same thing when not behind the wheel. Plus theres the benefit of them being completely unable to get behind the wheel due to being in jail. Then when their terms up, start rehabing. If addicts can turn around, a lowly "hooner" should have no problem.

If Brett Stevens can lose all his cars to govt auction for drugs, im sure a jailed dangerous driver can lose his as well.

vztrt · 23-01-2010, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty85

I agree, crushing cars is a waste. What if its a nice car and I want it one day? All this will do is get them into another car, licensed or not and do the same thing.

If the car is roadworthy then it will be sold, its meant to only be crushed it the owner is caught in the car and it is unroadworthy.

4Vman · 23-01-2010, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

If the car is roadworthy then it will be sold, its meant to only be crushed it the owner is caught in the car and it is unroadworthy.

and under the latest proposal on your third strike....

FPV8U · 23-01-2010, 08:50 PM

While i belive in the Hoon laws as a good preventative attempt compared to other measures they have taken in reducing the younger age bracket road toll, crushing cars is giving the government too much power, they are taking laws from overseas applied to serious street racers (Take a look on some US car forums, won't take you long to find some interesting footage) that race for Cash & Reputation and applying it to Johnno & His mates doing Burnouts in an Industrial estate for 3rd time at 2am in the morning..

Yes i belive there should be Large Fines, Yes i belive the car should be impounded (And for longer durations on 2ND, 3rd, 4Th, Etc Hoon Impounding) and Yes i belive the car should be Sold if the funds cannot be found to pay the debts to the impound yard which belive me after 2-3 months would add up!

Destroying someones property & Leaving them the Bill to pay with potential Jail/Community Service time is stepping over the line, yes i know they "Could" have had an accident and the "Could" have Injured/Killed people but unless that is the case, lets leave special treatment for those who actually commit the crime, soon the penalties for being "Wreckless" on the road will be as High and long as Manslaughter, and that's without actually having an accident.

**SSD-85** · 23-01-2010, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

yes i know they "Could" have had an accident and the "Could" have Injured/Killed people but unless that is the case, lets leave special treatment for those who actually commit the crime, soon the penalties for being "Wreckless" on the road will be as High and long as Manslaughter, and that's without actually having an accident.

These are my thoughts exactly mate, but i didnt mention it because i couldnt find my flame suit. But it contradicts the whole ideology on "why someone has to die before anything is done to punish". There is a fine line, but this line wouldnt even need to exist if people on BOTH sides used a little commonsense. But if that were the case, people wouldnt be dropping like flies on the roads either.

metalmania · 23-01-2010, 09:13 PM

Oh well there will be less Commodores on the road. That's one good point.

:

FPV8U · 23-01-2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty85

These are my thoughts exactly mate, but i didnt mention it because i couldnt find my flame suit. But it contradicts the whole ideology on "why someone has to die before anything is done to punish". There is a fine line, but this line wouldnt even need to exist if people on BOTH sides used a little commonsense. But if that were the case, people wouldnt be dropping like flies on the roads either.

Im used to being Flamed to the point of being desensitized

RIPGMH · 23-01-2010, 09:24 PM

Picture yourself as a "hoon" who has just dropped a load of cash in mods on your car, you've got 400-500 hp under your right foot and you are on a second or third warning knowing full well that if the police behind you pull you up your car will be crushed. We don't want a spate of high speed pursuits because some tool is chasing votes and doesn't have a real solution to the problem.