5 young men killed in high speed crash.

[mrbaxr6t]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Theres a bit of irony in that lot, over here in SA they are proposing a new motorsport venue to geet the hoons off the road and onto the track.
Dont you guys already have a drag strip...didnt stop this fella.

Unfortunately the strip cant be open 24/7 so chances are these things would continue to happen in the wee hours regardless of the incentives not to.

Saying i'll race you in a weeks time wont cut it in the heat of the moment.

no it wont but if you have a timesheet to show and ask the 2nd party to show you theirs puts peer pressure on them to get their **** there and get a timesheet, if you can entice enough youth to be out there with timesheets and openly encourage them to do so then peer pressure will push the others to get a timesheet too, and hopefully once they get to the track they can burn off all the rubber and testosterone they can and have a good time to boot, and hopefully come back to the next one with their mates.

every post here says that something needs to be done and tightening p plate or road rules wont do jack to prevent this happening again

[BENT_8]

Exactly who was this guy racing?

Apparently you dont need to be in a debate over whos cars faster to be an idiot on the roads.

[4Vman]

Drag strip won't work.. These people are all about rebelling and opportunism, the car was unregistered. These kinds of people hate conforming to laws and rules, the buzz comes as much from the speed as it does from breaking the law. The cost and regulations puts these people off legal motorsport, they aren't motorsport enthusiasts at all. We have lots of off road facilities already, they won't use them..

[mrbaxr6t]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Exactly who was this guy racing?

Apparently you dont need to be in a debate over whos cars faster to be an idiot on the roads.

but if it can be drilled into his head that you drive like this on the track maybe he wouldn't have done it where he did in the first place.. its just a suggestion

[b0son]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I feel this behavior needs to be taken off the streets and is the only real answer

i remember as a teen being into skateboarding, but there simply wasnt anywhere to do it. so we skated on the streets.

nowadays, there are skate parks everywhere, and they'e rarely empty.

we pour so much money into also sorts of pointless campaigns, why not put some into an alternative venue?

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

why does everyone need their hand held... I thought we had brains for a reason, yes some have less than others but why for 1% of the population does everyone else need to be dumbed down?

This is the part that erks me too! Even though the rest of us feel like we are constantly being dumbed down, that still didn't save their lives either.

Originally Posted by UNR8D

this is going to sound callus but I don’t care, people will take stupid risks, if they are moronic enough to do it in an area where they have no second option to pull out, or have enough run off when things go pear shaped then so be it...

I know it is hard but try to show some compassion. They did bring it on themselves but they are still human. I do understand why you would think this way though.

Originally Posted by UNR8D

nature has always had a way of culling off the weak if we didn’t the world population would be way to much for everyone to survive, if they don’t get their thrills from a car they will elsewhere,

They were not weak like as in frail, they were strong healthy individuals who knew no boundaries with full lives ahead, and nature also has a plan for this type of character as well. Without them Columbus would not have discovered the Americas or Hillary would not have scaled Everest or Chuck Yeager would not have broken the sound barrier or my favourite, Armstrong would not have walked on the moon. (Jeremy Clarkson pointed this out in one of his specials)

The difference here though seems to be the attitude of these individuals and the fact that they don’t seem to recognise the difference between "what is right and what is wrong" to "what is right and what is very very very very wrong" like the rest of us do.

[UNR8D]

bud bud, I do agree, and in all honesty didn’t mean that all of them were BAD people nor did they deserve to die, sorry if it seemed that way, rather than looking at it through a mothers eyes I was mealy stating the cold harsh facts but in looking back at what I have written I can see how it can be construed the wrong way.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

but if it can be drilled into his head that you drive like this on the track maybe he wouldn't have done it where he did in the first place.. its just a suggestion

And at the same time it could have negative effects.

Some would take it upon themselves to believe if they are good enough to get away with it on the track it makes them experts and capable of doing it anywhere, who knows.

Perhaps if parents excercised their right to be parents and 'drilled' common sense into their children this wouldnt be an issue.

Lets stop making excuses for the behaviour and take ownership of the problem.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

bud bud, I do agree, and in all honesty didn’t mean that all of them were BAD people nor did they deserve to die, sorry if it seemed that way, rather than looking at it through a mothers eyes I was mealy stating the cold harsh facts but in looking back at what I have written I can see how it can be construed the wrong way.

All good, there is an incredible amount of emotion attached to this thread. I have read your previous posts and I know you did not mean it that way.

[ltd]

Need to enforce licencing rules.

New licencees should also pay a bond of $1000.00 to the RTA or whatever, able to be lost through fines and/or smaller fines such as talking on the mobile whilst driving etc. This gives young drivers an incentive to behave, as well as weed out the idiots who shouldn't have a licence anyway. Sounds expensive I know, but to a kid at 15 thinking of getting their licence they would start to save early and appreciate their learners permit/P plates that much more.

We should also look at a card reader with a smart chip like on your Visa card that ascertains drivers licence types matched to that particular car ie, your P plate son cannot literally start your F6 typhoon. Also, those without a licence cannot start anything period without licence card. Quite cheap technology and would do a lot to stop thousands of idiots. Further, technology could be adapted to facial recognition match with the card and the car which would be a key feature to a lot of high end models; prevent a lot of thefts too.

Another thing is like the Valet key in fords in the USA, stops the car being revved over 2500rpm and stops the car from speeding over 40mph. It actually activates a different map in the cars computer to stop valets from thrashing your engine. This would be good for those who claim their kid has to use the family car. Could use card reader I mentioned before instead of special key to activate the "Valet Mode" mapping.

Licence progression could be as follows;

P1 should have no passengers, drive a car with a power to weight ratio of maximum 70kw/tonne and be used only in the local area. 12 - 18 months duration.

P2 should only have 1 passenger and have the same power to weight ration as P1. 2 years duration.

Unrestricted should require the driver to pass another driving test conducted by an advanced driving course before giving unrestricted licence. Cost will be covered by bond paid at the beginning of licence and at the end the remainder of the bond is paid back to the now licenced driver.
Gives an incentive to the driver to behave themselves, as well as stops them avoiding fines.
Finally, the dragstrip is a good idea, give the young fellas something to do instead of play with their Wii Wii's

[Sprint347]

Blaming the XR6 is a joke, we had a very similar incident where 3 schoolkids were killed in a lowly 4cyl BMW 3 series travelling at 140kmh in a 70 zone.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/youn...-1111117343976

We need to learn from these incidents and look at the causes to aid with prevention:

The driver should not have been travelling at that speed.
The passengers should have told the driver to slow down.
What is a 15 year old doing out at 2am in the morning?

RIP to those affected.

[FPV+fteT3]

The driver did a lot wrong here the passengers also played some part in what went down does anyone think that just maybe modern society where as a kid your actions have no consequence has any part to play in the thinking of some young drivers?

I mean you can do almost anything at school and no one can touch you next day you have your P's and the mentality does not automatically change to being responsible in what you do. Kids are taught by schools at a very young age that parents who discipline you too hard can be held accountable so the kids soon figure they can get away with anything.

The older generation whose parents were like mine where if you stepped out of line you got 1 warning then next time you got nailed for it you knew what the consequences were so you had boundaries. I think in the BS society has created for its self by the do gooders by not allowing kids to be held accountable is coming home to roost.

Why should someone who has never had to be responsible for anything suddenly be accountable for their actions? I hear some saying when we were young we played up and did similar things in cars and got away with it I dare say a lot more goes on now than 30 years ago and the population and road users has increased to a point where the chances of a major malfunction has increased ten fold not to mention the type of cars we drove were very slow compared to todays vehicles yes they seemed fast but it was relative.

[exactly]

Originally Posted by kezzer

Great... :togo:

You don't work in any government sector do you?? lol

I assure you, I will have a much better chance of surviving a car accident in my FG xr6 (on p plates) then your girls in their boxy 4cylinder ricers.

I'm sure all the young tradies will be ALOT safer carting around their gear in a 4cylinder. Having to thrash the motor to get going, crawling up hills with a full 1 ton trailer behind em doing 80 instead of 110km.
:

you are exactly the knob under the next tree and who i fear most knowing your out ther

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

So you are saying speed doesn't kill?



My car is heavy not fast. Motor was built to make only 300 for the 'dyno phase' I was going through at the time.

I know this is getting a little off topic but your comments do need some attention.

For a start, no I do not need a car that is capable of 200km/h on the streets, but I do on the track and I enjoy that. Why should I lose that right because some muppet can not follow laws?

Secondly, cops and other emergency services do need cars that can exceed 120, you may need them to have that too. I know the last time I was on a case and had a knife held at me I was glad the cops could exceed 120 getting to me when I placed the distress call. My life depends on that on the odd occasion.

Lastly, the post you are quoting above does not suggest everyone can speed safely, stop twisting what he is saying. Emergency services recieve a lot more training, have higher level of skill and have more safety and warning devices than the avergage motorist to allow them to safely exceed the speed limit in situations that it is reasonable to do so.

I appologise if my tone is a bit harsh, I do not mean it too but give us all a break, at the moment your comments support the knee jerk government actions that have resulted in more speed cameras, lower speed limits and more strict laws regarding vehicle modifications. We do not need it to be made harder to have motoring fun responsibly.

[exactly]

Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional!

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by exactly

you are exactly the knob under the next tree and who i fear most knowing your out ther

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yes mate, keep fearing me

In the meantime do something on that spelling and grammar of yours.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

II know the last time I was on a case and had a knife held at me I was glad the cops could exceed 120 getting to me when I placed the distress call. My life depends on that on the odd occasion.

My God did that really happen, what is the world coming to?????

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I appologise if my tone is a bit harsh, I do not mean it too but give us all a break, at the moment your comments support the knee jerk government actions that have resulted in more speed cameras, lower speed limits and more strict laws regarding vehicle modifications. We do not need it to be made harder to have motoring fun responsibly.

And even if those laws were made tougher for us still, how would that have prevented what happened anyway???

[exactly]

I assure you, I will have a much better chance of surviving a car accident in my FG xr6 (on p plates) then your girls in their boxy 4cylinder ricers.
see this type of statement is what its all about .the im great look at me look at me im my new fg xr6 tradie then cruz down the highway speeding with p plates

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by exactly

Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional!

What is your point here?

[Road_Warrior]

I think this thread is done.

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by exactly

I assure you, I will have a much better chance of surviving a car accident in my FG xr6 (on p plates) then your girls in their boxy 4cylinder ricers.
see this type of statement is what its all about .the im great look at me look at me im my new fg xr6 tradie then cruz down the highway speeding with p plates

Mate, what are you on? Can I have some? :

Yes I speed down the freeway with p plates, because we all know without a p plate its impossible.

Don't blame the machine, blame the user behind it, fearing everyone who drives a 6 cylinder is pretty noob.

I'll stop feeding the troll. Agree this threads done.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And at the same time it could have negative effects.

Some would take it upon themselves to believe if they are good enough to get away with it on the track it makes them experts and capable of doing it anywhere, who knows.

Perhaps if parents excercised their right to be parents and 'drilled' common sense into their children this wouldnt be an issue.

Lets stop making excuses for the behaviour and take ownership of the problem.

Maybe impounded cars could be kept as 'public use' cars at a few tracks around the country. Then kids can go down there, go as hard as they want without fear of wrecking the car they need to use to get to work the next day.
I know I wouldnt be pushing 100% if I took my car to the track. Hence I would be less likely to encounter an actual out-of-control moment.
This can remove the worry of damage and people are more likely to experience what it is to truly lose control. I dont mean 'doing donuts and swinging a bit wide and clipping a gutter' out of control, I mean something like 'the sudden loss of traction mid corner when it was expected to be fine' out of control. The type that involves a large amount of puckering, and requires a change of jocks afterwards.

Could also be fun to have the owners of the impounded car there to watch as Joe Public loses control and puts it into a fence. :evil3: Or as Joe Public #2 is bouncing the engine off the rev limiter cause they dont know how to drive manual properly.
(Obviously the cars would need to be fitted with a roll cage and the necessary safety features required by CAMS to protect the drivers)


Consequences are only understood when someone actually cares, or has experienced, what the repercussions are. I believe this starts from early childhood where parents do not follow up with proper punishment.
If you have never had to deal with loss, psychologically scarring loss, (even your favourite toy as a kid) why should you understand what it is to lose a loved one, or take someones life?
If you can imagine in your mind the heart-ache you would feel, to a point where you actually begin to feel nervous butterflies, then you would most likely reconsider that decision. I dont mean to say that this thought process would occur before every choice, thats very very unlikely, but if fear of loss/consequence can be generated in the individual on the topic of road use, then it would modify their driving habits forever.


Hopefully the entire friend group affected by this will slow down and be a little more sensible on the roads, but there will no doubt be a certain percentage of them that believe they could drive better than the deceased, so it wont happen to them.


Just a few thoughts on the topic.


I feel the most for the survivor, I could not even begin to imagine what it would be like to be trapped under 3 dead people, while conscious, when quite possibly her brother was one of them.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by ltd

Need to enforce licencing rules.

New licencees should also pay a bond of $1000.00 to the RTA or whatever, able to be lost through fines and/or smaller fines such as talking on the mobile whilst driving etc. This gives young drivers an incentive to behave, as well as weed out the idiots who shouldn't have a licence anyway. Sounds expensive I know, but to a kid at 15 thinking of getting their licence they would start to save early and appreciate their learners permit/P plates that much more.

We should also look at a card reader with a smart chip like on your Visa card that ascertains drivers licence types matched to that particular car ie, your P plate son cannot literally start your F6 typhoon. Also, those without a licence cannot start anything period without licence card. Quite cheap technology and would do a lot to stop thousands of idiots. Further, technology could be adapted to facial recognition match with the card and the car which would be a key feature to a lot of high end models; prevent a lot of thefts too.

Another thing is like the Valet key in fords in the USA, stops the car being revved over 2500rpm and stops the car from speeding over 40mph. It actually activates a different map in the cars computer to stop valets from thrashing your engine. This would be good for those who claim their kid has to use the family car. Could use card reader I mentioned before instead of special key to activate the "Valet Mode" mapping.

Licence progression could be as follows;

P1 should have no passengers, drive a car with a power to weight ratio of maximum 70kw/tonne and be used only in the local area. 12 - 18 months duration.

P2 should only have 1 passenger and have the same power to weight ration as P1. 2 years duration.

Unrestricted should require the driver to pass another driving test conducted by an advanced driving course before giving unrestricted licence. Cost will be covered by bond paid at the beginning of licence and at the end the remainder of the bond is paid back to the now licenced driver.
Gives an incentive to the driver to behave themselves, as well as stops them avoiding fines.
Finally, the dragstrip is a good idea, give the young fellas something to do instead of play with their Wii Wii's

I have to say some awesome points here, especially the card readers. The tech is in our cars now to electronically limit car capabilities according to ECU mapping, my flash tuned GT had valet mapping. I see no issue with this on a P platers car.

I also have no issue with having to plug my valid open drivers license into the dash so that I can enjoy my FPV or turbo Mini, knowing that someone without a valid license can not enjoy the same.

Rep points to you!

[ltd]

Originally Posted by exactly

I assure you, I will have a much better chance of surviving a car accident in my FG xr6 (on p plates) then your girls in their boxy 4cylinder ricers.
see this type of statement is what its all about .the im great look at me look at me im my new fg xr6 tradie then cruz down the highway speeding with p plates

Let's not get nasty.

Let's also not get personal.

Let's all play nice :

[exactly]

Originally Posted by kezzer

Mate, what are you on? Can I have some? :

Yes I speed down the freeway with p plates, because we all know without a p plate its impossible.

Don't blame the machine, blame the user behind it, fearing everyone who drives a 6 cylinder is pretty noob.

I'll stop feeding the troll. Agree this threads done.

when you say **************** like this
Yes I speed down the freeway with p plates, because we all know without a p plate its impossible its not what im on but who i am to care for your safety
p is for what can you tell me that ??????
and no its not for profesional and here have an icon back

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by exactly

when you say **************** like this
Yes I speed down the freeway with p plates, because we all know without a p plate its impossible its not what im on but who i am to care for your safety
p is for what can you tell me that ??????
and no its not for profesional and here have an icon back

You guys will quickly kill a thread that has some good info and points of view, can we give it a rest. Pm sounds like a good place for the remainder of your discussion.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

As far as education goes, I have a slightly different believe in it. I actually believe that our education system and certain legislation is to blame. Many years ago, the nosy do-gooders that are ruining our society and way of life had a win. It started with the removal of the cane from our schools, and then proceeded to the banning of parents smacking their own children. Subsequently, schools began teaching students that their parents have no right to smack or discipline them. The flow on effect has been one that we are constantly confronted with in the media. Teenagers out of control, doing whatever they want, when they want, with no regard for the consequences of their own actions. They no have respect for authority, as they develop a mentality, that no-one can touch them. I fine is viewed as a medal of honour, as they know that and loss of license is the extent of what may happen.

Now, I am not saying that all of our young generation are like this, so please don't get offended if you don't fall into this category. There is however alot that are like this, and they are the ones who are ruining it for the others. It is unfortunate that we have this softly-soflty approach to discipline. Starting from an early age it does nothing but reinforce that there is no accountability for actions, and that nobody is responsible for what has been done. This is something that has crept into life in general. Even the older generation that were taught responsibility and accountability seem to try and pass the buck. Our politicians have made careers out of it.


Cheers
Ned

Ned i believe you nailed a large part of the problem right there, it's not something that can be fixed by road legislation either.

[Falcon Coupe]

I'm going to hand out warning points for anymore off topic.

[TUF_302]

Come on guys, dont forget the topic of this thread, no need to get yourself warned over something silly

[4Vman]

Guys, this thread was really going well till this arvo, its an extremely worthwhile topic in terms of making a stand and reinforcing good driving standards and the importance of safety, please keep it on topic and lets keep it constructive and non political.