Question for the fridgies on here

[Road_Warrior]

So my trusty old Kelvinator beer fridge died recently (ice box got cold but the rest didnt) and I replaced it with a $50 job off Dumbtree. It is an old 1970's pommy made fridge called a 'Thorn-Triumph' with a Danfoss compressor in it.

It works, and gets beers...coldish...but not cold enough. Come early afternoon the compressor is running non stop, the casing temp gets as high as 86 degrees all the while the beers inside are only at about 10 degrees. I should mention the evaporator coils are clean as, and the freezer is very frosty. When I first got it and turned it on, it took nearly 2 days to pull down to a respectable temp and that was with mild 30 degree days.

Is it a bin job, or could there be a fix for it that will allow this little fridge to get it's mojo back? I don't mind spending a little bit of $$$ on it, but second hand fridges are easy to come by also...

[Tassie f100]

I reckon if it took that long to cool it probably is a bit short on gas.Trouble is,it will cost more to get it gassed up than it would cost to buy another Gumtree special

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

I reckon if it took that long to cool it probably is a bit short on gas.Trouble is,it will cost more to get it gassed up than it would cost to buy another Gumtree special

Yeah that's the thing. What's a regas cost. And then there is replacing or repairing the component that caused the leak.

[commodorenutt]

You're looking at a minimum $100 to get someone out to even find the leak, and double it to regas.

If you're looking for a gumtree special, the most reliable, cheap, and plentiful options are the Westinghouse/Kelvinator cousins from the late 90s to about 2008 - the Kelvinator ones have either a blue & white oval resin badge on the door, or a silver rectangular badge, with a bit of a bow along the bottom of it.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It works, and gets beers...coldish...but not cold enough.

Seems pretty British to me...

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

Seems pretty British to me...

LOL. Kind of what my Mrs said

[snap0964]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

If you're looking for a gumtree special, the most reliable, cheap, and plentiful options are the Westinghouse/Kelvinator cousins from the late 90s to about 2008 - the Kelvinator ones have either a blue & white oval resin badge on the door, or a silver rectangular badge, with a bit of a bow along the bottom of it.

You may be right Mick. I bought a Westinghouse Silhouette 221 secondhand in 1999 as an interim setup - nearly 20 yrs later, it still runs fine - freezer section works very well, as does the general cooling area.

[commodorenutt]

Forgot to add - one of the best ways to get a bargain is to buy one with stuffed door seals, and put brand new (aftermarket) seals on it for about $80-90 and less than an hour's work.

If you give it a good clean while the doors are off, the end result is cheap, and hygenic.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

Forgot to add - one of the best ways to get a bargain is to buy one with stuffed door seals, and put brand new (aftermarket) seals on it for about $80-90 and less than an hour's work.

If you give it a good clean while the doors are off, the end result is cheap, and hygenic.

Whats your opinion on Hisense stuff? Seeing heaps of them for sale second hand atm.

[FTE217]

Like their tv's, do the job but not good enough.
I just bought a new 65cm and checking brand for brand many times the picture quality was rubbish to the Jap/Korean brands, I'm guessing their fridge quality be similar.

[commodorenutt]

Anything like that - if you're not in the warranty period, don't bother.

Stick to the known brands that have been around in the market for 20-30 years or longer if you want a 2nd hand fridge.

If a thermostat goes on a well-known brand, parts are readily available. Many of these cheap Asian-sourced fridges become orphans for parts after a production run, and you'll spend hundreds more getting a fridgie to adapt common parts from something else to fix them.

One of the best eye-openers is to check out a workshop selling 2nd hand whitegoods. Note the brands & models they have for sale out the front, but also take a look in the scrap bin out the back. That's where you'll find HiSense and others like it. They simply aren't economical to repair, and end up as next year's Great-Wall ute.

[sr71]

Coils on the outside are the Condensor coils. The ice box is probably the Evaporator Coil. Method of cooling is 'Cold Air Spill Over', which means the convection of air inside the fridge circulates over the ice box, then falls/spills over product(beer) to the bottom (butter has its own compartment to protect it from getting too cold, preferring 5-7'C rather than 2-4'C. Ice box is in the minus region- ice cream likes -20'C).
Compressor keeps pumping until 2-4'C is achieved.
•Very frosty evaporator is a sign of Short on gas. The freezing is happening too early in the evaporator, from low volume of refrigerant (in vapor state. Compressor turns it back to liquid state).If short of gas, it'll keep pumping, until desired temp, the old ozone depleting gas, costing $300/kg. Leak needs to be found, repaired, then regas. Could be a call out fee of $80 plus $100 per hour plus half kilo of gas. Could take 2 hours to find and repair leak.
•Old oil in refrigerant could have gummed up and is blocking the capillary line/ expansion Valve. Repair for that is remove and replace the capillary line ( approx. 1mm thick O.D copper tube) or remove, clean and replace Expansion Valve ( depending on set up Capillary or TX Valve). Run solvent through to get rid of gummy oil, then put back together, leak test, pressure test, vacuum pump and regas. About 4 hours work plus materials.
•Another option is to retro fit with current regulation refrigerant condenser unit and gas accordingly. Modern gas runs at higher pressure, so all pipe work, evap and Condensor could need replacing too. 4-6 hours plus parts, gas etc = $1000 plus
• most Domestic fridges aren't economically worth repairing. And there aren't many Fridges that will do it. They won't even repair their own, because of the time involved.
Sentimental value ( Nana's 1950's Kelvinator) is supported with advice of storing for a while and refurbishing and retro fitting when there's a spare thousand or two.
• some old school Fridgies (virtually retirees now 65+) will try a blast of sealant ( like Bars Leaks for Radiators) and buy a can of pressurized freon from US Ebay sellers. But I haven't heard of that being done for 7-10 years. Refrigerant Handling Licences are expensive to maintain, and not worth the risk of losing, to help a 'mate of a mate'. Expect to pay full rate from any Fridgies, sorry to say.

You're up for $180 just to have someone turn up for an hour.
Bit of info overload above, but I hope it helps you.
Cheers

[Road_Warrior]

Thanks for that. Yeah the outside coils are clean but they do get warm. Almost hot. Freezer/ice box is icing up and is about minus 20. Pulled a beer out this afternoon that was 8 degrees!

[sr71]

The outside coils reject the heat. It seems like you have high temperature (which also means high pressure) on the hot side, and not quite as cool (with required low pressure) on the cool side. I'm guessing the cool side is being starved of refrigerant, from a restriction/blockage in the Expansion Device. ( gummy oil or moisture that's icing up)
The Expansion device ( capillary line or TX valve) is like a garden hose with a spray nozzle, or a misting bottle. As it sprays into the evaporator side, the mist cools ( and there' a drop in pressure). The evaporator cools air passing over it, but effectively takes in heat from the air. Your Evaporator is getting cool ( at -20'C) , but not likely all the way through. It should get warmer than -20'C at the end of the evaporator coil, as it takes in some heat ( eg.8'C is hotter than than 2'C).
I've seen Supermarkets with garden hose sprinkler set ups on the roof, spraying the Condensor coil, and assisting the fans with rejecting the heat. I wonder how your fridge would go with an oscillating fan blowing over the Ouside coil, helping it reject heat ( just like the illegal supermarket sprinkler system).
Is it tight up against the wall, and maybe even getting afternoon sun heat soak?
There's also a chance it's designed for cooler weather (England), and just underperforming in Australia. I've heard of warmer Indonesian locations getting a crate supplied with their fridge to assist with air flow (convection) going over the back coil. The fridge sits on the crate.

Don't do the garden hose idea. Haha.
A pallet and a fan(on a Kambrook timer)ain't much better, as a cheap fix either.

Danfoss Compressors are still widely used.

[snap0964]

Originally Posted by sr71

.Bit of info overload above, but I hope it helps you.
Cheers

Very good write up.
Do fridges run an equivalent to an A/C receiver/drier ?

[Road_Warrior]

I have moved it back from the wall, yes. 100mm ought to do it. You could be right about it simply not being up to the task of an Aussie summer, even though it doesnt really get sun on it until late arvo (by which point its been running flat chat for ages anyway) it definitely has an issue with ambient air temps. This morning it was 17 degrees outside, the beers on the top shelf were -3 and the beers on the next shelf were 0 degrees. So it's clearly capable of cooling, when it likes the weather conditions!

I'll definitely pass on the sprinkler idea I'm surprised no one's been electrocuted

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by snap0964

Very good write up.
Do fridges run an equivalent to an A/C receiver/drier ?

Yes they have a small inline drier.

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by sr71

Coils on the outside are the Condensor coils. The ice box is probably the Evaporator Coil. Method of cooling is 'Cold Air Spill Over', which means the convection of air inside the fridge circulates over the ice box, then falls/spills over product(beer) to the bottom (butter has its own compartment to protect it from getting too cold, preferring 5-7'C rather than 2-4'C. Ice box is in the minus region- ice cream likes -20'C).
Compressor keeps pumping until 2-4'C is achieved.
•Very frosty evaporator is a sign of Short on gas. The freezing is happening too early in the evaporator, from low volume of refrigerant (in vapor state. Compressor turns it back to liquid state).If short of gas, it'll keep pumping, until desired temp, the old ozone depleting gas, costing $300/kg. Leak needs to be found, repaired, then regas. Could be a call out fee of $80 plus $100 per hour plus half kilo of gas. Could take 2 hours to find and repair leak.
•Old oil in refrigerant could have gummed up and is blocking the capillary line/ expansion Valve. Repair for that is remove and replace the capillary line ( approx. 1mm thick O.D copper tube) or remove, clean and replace Expansion Valve ( depending on set up Capillary or TX Valve). Run solvent through to get rid of gummy oil, then put back together, leak test, pressure test, vacuum pump and regas. About 4 hours work plus materials.
•Another option is to retro fit with current regulation refrigerant condenser unit and gas accordingly. Modern gas runs at higher pressure, so all pipe work, evap and Condensor could need replacing too. 4-6 hours plus parts, gas etc = $1000 plus
• most Domestic fridges aren't economically worth repairing. And there aren't many Fridges that will do it. They won't even repair their own, because of the time involved.
Sentimental value ( Nana's 1950's Kelvinator) is supported with advice of storing for a while and refurbishing and retro fitting when there's a spare thousand or two.
• some old school Fridgies (virtually retirees now 65+) will try a blast of sealant ( like Bars Leaks for Radiators) and buy a can of pressurized freon from US Ebay sellers. But I haven't heard of that being done for 7-10 years. Refrigerant Handling Licences are expensive to maintain, and not worth the risk of losing, to help a 'mate of a mate'. Expect to pay full rate from any Fridgies, sorry to say.

You're up for $180 just to have someone turn up for an hour.
Bit of info overload above, but I hope it helps you.
Cheers

We used to fix fridges all the time, especially when it was a poor old pensioner that was strapped for cash. Usually nothing major, mostly a small leak in the evaporator which we'd weld up, pressure test and regas. Not much involved really, a bullet piercing valve, a new drier and all fixed in less than an hour. Only other issue was the odd thermostat and suitable aftermarket ones are readily available. Of course concealed evaporators can't be welded but because they're concealed they rarely develop leaks anyway. Exposed evaporators got holes from the owners trying to hurry up the defrosting process with a sharp object.

[snap0964]

Originally Posted by NTF6

Yes they have a small inline drier.

Thanks for the info.

[Road_Warrior]

Ok so this fridge has obviously heard me speaking ill towards it and lifted its game. Afternoon ambient temps the same as yesterday and the compressor is running more often than not and getting bloody hot in the process as before, but inside temps are much lower. Beers on the top shelf are at -1 or 0, and next shelf 2 degrees. Perfect.

I'm wondering if moving it away from the wall has helped it a bit. Also, I noticed this drip tray thing under the freezer box and wondered if it was blocking airflow and coldness from falling down into the refrigerator compartment - I took it out.

Mmmm cold beeeer