Jim Wangers - the Godfather of the GTO

RedHotGT · 13-05-2010, 10:51 AM

Last night I went to a presentation by the Godfather of the Pontiac GTO - Jim Wangers.

Was a very interesting night, with a lot of enthusiasts (mostly Pontiac guys - of course) turning out for a very interesting and frank discussion regarding the rise of the Muscle Car, and the demise of General Motors in the USA.

For those that have no idea who I am talking about:
http://geetotiger.com/JimWangers.htm

Was really great to hear from someone who was at the coldface during the 60's and explain why it was that some cars worked and sold really well... and why some cars were destined to fail...

It was very interesting to hear the explanation as to why the Monaro based GTO failed in the USA... and also which vehicle was used to promote the idea in the first place (A VTII GTS-R - which was a concept car and has never been released here in oz)...

Lots of references to big names within the industry - like Carroll Shelby and John Delorean... and others that I had no idea who they were or how they impacted the muscle car world...

Just wondered if anyone else from FF was there, or heard about this show... and if anyone else has any thoughts on the history of the Muscle Car world...

**Polyal** · 13-05-2010, 10:59 AM

Sounds interesting, didn't even know it was on. Are there any more sessions?

RedHotGT · 13-05-2010, 11:03 AM

Not in Melbourne I don't think...

https://pontiworld.com.au/usgmsp/

only in Adelaide...

paule11 · 13-05-2010, 03:38 PM

Always wanted a 1964 gto maybe one day . That would be a good presentation to see

Peter B - CV8 · 13-05-2010, 05:19 PM

Hi Loftie,
Always had a soft spot for the GTO's from the 60's - just out of interest, what were the main reasons that Jim mentioned that impacted on the success of the latter day Monaro/GTO's.

RedHotGT · 14-05-2010, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

Hi Loftie,
Always had a soft spot for the GTO's from the 60's - just out of interest, what were the main reasons that Jim mentioned that impacted on the success of the latter day Monaro/GTO's.

Jim's opinion (and the facts) are that both cars (Monaro and GTO) were deemed failures in the market.

Undoubted, they are a great car... 2 doors, 4 seats... loads of horsepower... but when it came to sales... they didn't really set the world on fire...

They were a catastrophic failure in the USA for a number of reasons...
1) Pontiac GTO was a patriotic brand... American Muscle... It was never going to succeed in the market in the USA as its origins were Australian...
2) The showrooms in the USA did not have cars for demo... there may have been one demo car in each state - but Jim said that each Pontiac dealer should have had at least 1-2 demo cars... get them out on the road... get them to be seen... But as the showrooms didn't have demo cars, they never sold...
3) The looks were dated from day 1... Remember the car was shown as a concept in 1998, released in Australia in 2001 - but didn't make it to the USA until 2004...
Compare it to a 2004 Mustang/Camaro and the looks aren't exactly BOLD and STRIKING... Jim agreed that the car looked great - but not a Muscle Car look...

He also felt that they failed in Australia as well... because if they were that good - why aren't they still available now??

The main reason that Jim felt cars fail in the market has nothing to do with the quality of the car... its how they are 'sold' and marketed...

It was a great night and very informative...

Peter B - CV8 · 15-05-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftie

Jim's opinion (and the facts) are that both cars (Monaro and GTO) were deemed failures in the market.

Undoubted, they are a great car... 2 doors, 4 seats... loads of horsepower... but when it came to sales... they didn't really set the world on fire...

They were a catastrophic failure in the USA for a number of reasons...
1) Pontiac GTO was a patriotic brand... American Muscle... It was never going to succeed in the market in the USA as its origins were Australian...
2) The showrooms in the USA did not have cars for demo... there may have been one demo car in each state - but Jim said that each Pontiac dealer should have had at least 1-2 demo cars... get them out on the road... get them to be seen... But as the showrooms didn't have demo cars, they never sold...
3) The looks were dated from day 1... Remember the car was shown as a concept in 1998, released in Australia in 2001 - but didn't make it to the USA until 2004...
Compare it to a 2004 Mustang/Camaro and the looks aren't exactly BOLD and STRIKING... Jim agreed that the car looked great - but not a Muscle Car look...

He also felt that they failed in Australia as well... because if they were that good - why aren't they still available now??

The main reason that Jim felt cars fail in the market has nothing to do with the quality of the car... its how they are 'sold' and marketed...

It was a great night and very informative...

Thanks Mate,
Thanks for the extra info - all good salient points. I recall the objections the Yanks had about aussies "stealing" their GTO heritage - but didn't realize the lack of dealer display vehicles. Bit hard to sell a product if the intended purchaser can't sit in & drive one first.................