Auto VS Manual

EA Ghia · 24-02-2007, 11:19 PM

I'm looking to put some money into a transmission. At first, I was going to get an auto and put some work into it, but then I decided I was going to get a manual. Both of those ideas fell through, and now I have a bit of money to put towards either of them.

I have a 90 MPFI EA, 4 speed at the moment, which I'm thinking may not last too much longer.

What would I be better off getting? I know a manual will kill a stock auto, but if I put a bit of money into an auto, is there any chance of it keeping up with a manual? I realise that in the end, a manual would probably be cheaper, but an auto is generally cheaper to maintain in the long-run? I suppose it depends how often you go through your clutch, etc though.

Basically, I just don't know what to get for my car. I don't have my manual license, but it's not much to get one. What am I going to get more performance out of?

Help me decide!! :P

ilsautomotive · 24-02-2007, 11:23 PM

To compete with manual, an auto not only needs some sort of shift kit but much shorter diff gearing.

As for running costs, are you factoring in manual's better fuel efficiency? A properly driven manual clutch should last a long time.

Dezza · 24-02-2007, 11:24 PM

A tuned auto might be slightly quicker for an inexperienced manual driver, but a manual is heaps more fun. With a bit of experience, you should be able to perfect your takeoffs so you'll be much quicker than the auto. I found the manual certainly feels faster than the auto, particularily out of the corners

EDXR6T · 24-02-2007, 11:42 PM

A decent auto that will not only keep up but beat a manual will cost you heaps.

Clutches last for ages mate as long as they are installed properly. Ive had my PBR XR clutch in for 6 months now and it fell's just as good as it did the day I put it in And im not shy about thrashing it neither it regularly gets feed curry.;)

But yer i can comment on a worked auto but a stock 5 speed with a stock clutch feels so much stronger then any 4 speed BTR ive ever driven.

1 vot for manual.

[EDGHIA] · 25-02-2007, 12:05 AM

Vote 2 for manual.....

EA Ghia · 25-02-2007, 12:23 AM

If I were to get an auto that would have a chance of keeping up with a manual, I'd be looking at roughly $1500 at the bare minimum, yeh?

Whereas a manual will cost about $800 tops?

Leaning towards a manual, but I don't want to end up buying a dud..It's not easy to "kill" a manual, right? Most of the time, it'll be the clutch that stuffs up?

Also, at some stage in the future, I'd be looking to put an AU motor into the EA (That's possible with the MPFI setup, yeh?). If I were to get a T5 out of a E-Series, will it still bolt up without too much trouble?

Dezza · 25-02-2007, 12:39 AM

My entire manual conversion totalled around $600 (including snags, beer, and softdrink for all the people that helped fit it). I have been very happy with mine. There is a slight risk that something could go wrong with the manual, but you could say the same about the auto. Plus if something did go wrong in the manual, it would be cheaper to rebuild than the auto

EDXR6T · 25-02-2007, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper483

If I were to get an auto that would have a chance of keeping up with a manual, I'd be looking at roughly $1500 at the bare minimum, yeh?

Whereas a manual will cost about $800 tops?

Leaning towards a manual, but I don't want to end up buying a dud..It's not easy to "kill" a manual, right? Most of the time, it'll be the clutch that stuffs up?

Also, at some stage in the future, I'd be looking to put an AU motor into the EA (That's possible with the MPFI setup, yeh?). If I were to get a T5 out of a E-Series, will it still bolt up without too much trouble?

People say that these box's are sh|t when feed decent power but I know of a couple of good examples that say's quite the opposite.

If you do go for a manual I would suggest getting an EB2 onwards box as they usally have lower k's and are a little bit more refind over the EA box.

There's nothing wrong with EA box's tho just theres alot of claped out examples going around.

A e-series T5 box will marrie up to the AU blonk no worries but you will have to drill some new holes in the bottom of the bellhousing as they dont line up on the block apart from that its a strait swap.

oneredED · 25-02-2007, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Basically, I just don't know what to get for my car. I don't have my manual license, but it's not much to get one. What am I going to get more performance out of?

Get a manual conversion, and learn to drive well

People say an auto is faster... If you can drive a manual, an auto is not faster unless your in the 10sec club or better, and it does not keep your motor "on boost" better than a manual if you know how to swap cogs. However, it may be stronger...

EDIT: i checked my dyno sheet today and my "claimed" 113rwkw was actually 103rwkw, which resulted in a 15.6 at calder. I have seen e-series with more power run far slower times. Go manual

burkie_21 · 25-02-2007, 12:41 PM

i'm having the same drama with my el, the main thing with strengthening the auto wat they call k bands. 2 bands, 1 from 1st to 3rd, the other 2nd to 4th. this reduces slip when fed lots of power. cost round 400. plus u probably would do a service on it to. they are a strong box the ford 4 speeds. if u go manual, the early 5 speeds xf - ed are stronger than ef onwards.

EA Ghia · 25-02-2007, 02:14 PM

Still leaning towards the manual. With the money I have saved, I could afford a manual conversion plus some new wheels. Best of both worlds! :P

If I'm still looking to put the AU motor in, would I be better off putting an AU manual in as well? I'd assume they're basically the same, albeit a bit more priceier, but with lower km's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by burkie_21

if u go manual, the early 5 speeds xf - ed are stronger than ef onwards.

Why would they be weaker? If I'm better off getting an ED T5 over an AU one, I'd obviously take the ED one. But what reasoning is there behind an EF-AU one being weaker than the ED ones?

MADED-6 · 25-02-2007, 04:00 PM

go the manual i havent been in or seen a fast e-series auto yet even one with shift kit and 3000rpm stall and 3.9 diff gears he still cant break the 14 second barrier and how many ppl get 14's with manuals. seriously go manual if u are after some fun and a bit of a faster car. but if u drive in traffic alot the start to **** u trust me i have mine with an exedy clutch now and i hate driving in traffic.
cheers josh.

needaXYGT · 25-02-2007, 04:23 PM

Vote manual

Maximus · 25-02-2007, 04:38 PM

HAS to be a manual.

Look at it this way, you'll feel tougher than your auto-driving mates.

You'll come off a better driver.

bucko · 25-02-2007, 06:06 PM

I would agree a manual can be more fun, but a good shift kit a stall converter and some decent power behind it is just as fun. I've got an auto in mine I was thinking about going manual for my new engine with supercharger but all the trans shops I went to told me it wouldn't last build up the auto!

Also i've kept up with plenty of 5 speeds with my auto!

XRated · 25-02-2007, 06:51 PM

In an E-Series, better make it a manual ;) Unless it's a hardcore turbo

Grechie · 25-02-2007, 07:36 PM

Manual, for sure, go 5 Speed... when you learn how to drive it, and you'll really move ;)

EB 2 XR8 · 25-02-2007, 07:44 PM

yeah i would say manual, but i am finding out now they cost a lot of money (clutch), but its worth it

**Stav** · 25-02-2007, 07:53 PM

An auto with a good stall converter will put most manuals behind you.

mcflux · 25-02-2007, 07:55 PM

BTRs can handle decent power as long as they've got adequate cooling.

That is, when your BTR is in operational mode

T5s are for mild cars at best

DEVL-XR · 25-02-2007, 08:32 PM

Manual all the way mate, I've never looked back since driving my car, being a manual, for over a year now.

nugget378 · 25-02-2007, 09:21 PM

Auto with the correct stall convertor will KILL a manual,an auto will lose less speed between gearchanges regardless of how good a driver you think you are.
An auto with correct stall will multiply torque off the line and be quicker over the first 60',what you gain at the 60 you can double,or even triple sometimes at the line over a 1/4 mile..
This is the only reason I didnt run into the 10 second bracket while running 125mph.
T5 are also weak as ****s,flat shift em or abuse them too much and its just a matter of time..

EA Ghia · 25-02-2007, 09:38 PM

To get some decent power out of an auto, I understand I'd need a stall converter, shorter diff gears, and a decent cam, at the least?

How does a stall-converter work? From what I can gather, it doesn't send power to the wheels until it's at a certain RPM, or something along those lines? Basically, what goes into a worked auto transmission that'll give some decent power (I don't exactly expect a 10 second car either..)

What kind of price would you be looking at for a decent setup on an auto?

Still just looking at all my options.

:

mcflux · 25-02-2007, 09:41 PM

you've got it in one.

Stallies can be had for $400 upwards, and I'm assuming you have a six judging by your avatar. Get a 2.5k stally, 4.11 gears (prices vary, you can get pintara gears for as little as $150ish) and a cam ($couplahunje) with a power band that comes in around the 2.5k mark and you'll be laughing.

**Stav** · 25-02-2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper483

To get some decent power out of an auto, I understand I'd need a stall converter, shorter diff gears, and a decent cam, at the least?

How does a stall-converter work? From what I can gather, it doesn't send power to the wheels until it's at a certain RPM, or something along those lines? Basically, what goes into a worked auto transmission that'll give some decent power (I don't exactly expect a 10 second car either..)

What kind of price would you be looking at for a decent setup on an auto?

Still just looking at all my options.

:

Nope. Just get a higher stall converter.But not too big.The electronic btr auto boxes still retain factory cruise lockup electronically.The higher stall speed actually happens when you fang the car. At this point the torque from the engine is multiplied around 2 times.For example in an engine putting out 200nm of torque at stall speed(say 2500rpm) will translate to 400nm at the wheels. A manual needs to dump the clutch at 4000-5000 to create the same torque.The torque multiplication is built into the stall converter.A manual has no torque multiplication. As rpm increases though in an auto the multiplication reduces until total lockup.Do a google search ..theres heap on the topic.

mcflux · 25-02-2007, 09:54 PM

^^^ I guess I should've elaborated a little.

As Stav says, it won't engage at a specific RPM point all the time every single time. My 3000rpm stally would engage below 2000rpm if I just took off at a crawling pace. But it would flash at 3000rpm if I took off full-throttle.

eb91xr6 · 26-02-2007, 07:30 AM

all i need to say is

MANUAL FTW

burkie_21 · 26-02-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper483

Still leaning towards the manual. With the money I have saved, I could afford a manual conversion plus some new wheels. Best of both worlds! :P

If I'm still looking to put the AU motor in, would I be better off putting an AU manual in as well? I'd assume they're basically the same, albeit a bit more priceier, but with lower km's.

Why would they be weaker? If I'm better off getting an ED T5 over an AU one, I'd obviously take the ED one. But what reasoning is there behind an EF-AU one being weaker than the ED ones?

apparently they used a heavier clutch pack in the early 5 speeds. the only problems i have heard with the newer ones has all been clutch problems.. but like u say manuals are more fun

nugget378 · 26-02-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper483

To get some decent power out of an auto, I understand I'd need a stall converter, shorter diff gears, and a decent cam, at the least?

How does a stall-converter work? From what I can gather, it doesn't send power to the wheels until it's at a certain RPM, or something along those lines? Basically, what goes into a worked auto transmission that'll give some decent power (I don't exactly expect a 10 second car either..)

What kind of price would you be looking at for a decent setup on an auto?

Still just looking at all my options.

:

The power of the engine is unrelated to which gearbox you run,lower diff gears will help acceleration in an auto or a manual,a decent cam should give you more power either way as well.
A high stall convertor will allow you to use what power you have efficiently during take off,but will also flash to at least that stall speed on gear changes at WOT,at part throttle slower take offs it will behave almost like a stock one.
If you are going to fit a cam,and go auto,choose stall convertor last,so you get one that will stall a little higher than peak torque with the new cams power band,that way the stall speed takes advantage of everything the engine has at launch..