Flirt Thread

XRQTR · 13-10-2006, 11:37 AM

I'm wondering why it was that the thread that I started yesterday, was closed within a very short span of it being started.

There was and still is it would seem a need for a thread such as this, I cannot understand how certain threads are allowed to go on with absolutely no understandable reason as to there appearing on the Forum in the first place. And no I will not name them, as I am sure most know of them but simply let them be unless it gets a little offensive to members or becomes something that truly serves no purpose.

Some may say that a flirt thread serves or would serve no purpose, why then did so many people seem to get involved in the thread prior, how did it bring people into the thread from all over the Forum and why did people immediately get on board with there support. Truly puzzling.

Is this not what we are trying to do??

Are we not trying to involve as many people from the Forum in threads as we possibly can??

By doing so does this not make the Forums more accessable to all the members, rather than specific threads that only a small portion of the members can actually be involved in??

I am disgusted quite frankly at the actions of certain members to have the threads closed and/or have certain posts stopped. Could they not see that it was merely a little fun that is and most certainly was appreciated by many of the members on here, some of whom voiced there opinion on the matter of relevance to the posts within the threads, agreeing that it was just in good fun and certainly not offending or harming anyone. Could they not understand that perhaps people need interaction in all its forms and that this was just a way of interacting with people, and indeed other members, that they may not have done otherwise,

In closing I think that the 'overpolicing' that is being done by certain 'regular' members needs to be looked into and most certainly kerbed if not stopped, it only serves to alienate members and perhaps make themselves feel a little more important within the community. If that's what they want then they should possibly look into joining in instead of complaining about something that 'they' see as 'not fitting in' to the community, after all we are a community and as such should perhaps start acting like one.

Furthermore,I apologize if I had offended anyone with any of my posts or for that matter the thread that I had started, but to date I have recieved only one real complaint and the minority it would seem is being very vocal, such a shame.

SpoolMan · 13-10-2006, 12:24 PM

Some threads do not meet the standards required by this forum and therefor they are closed.
These could be for various reasons such as poor quality, sexist, racial, politics, religion, demeaning to others and just plain offensive etc:
There are plenty of other Sites/Forums that can cater for the above on the www net.

wulos · 13-10-2006, 12:42 PM

Where 'should' the line get drawn in regards to what is or what isn't acceptable posting material on AFF?
AFF was and still IS a site for Ford Enthusiasts to gather and talk about automitive related topics. Inevitably there will be topics OTHER then car stuff that people wish to talk about, topical discussions, dealing with major happenings or whatever. In order to keep this discussion out of the major forums, we have the BAR area - this is an area that allows a certain amount of freedom for people to gather and talk about this unrelated Automotive talk however it was never intended as a complete free for all area to talk about stuff which is completely off tangent and of little interest to the majority of users. There are plenty of other forums that are dedicated to 'free for all discussions' on any topic you wish to talk about. If you were to go onto a "sewing forum" & fill their bandwidth up with (what would be to them off genre talk) about Ford winning Bathurst you would receive exactly the same response. ie removal of the non relevant topics.
The decision to remove content from ANY area on AFF is never going to appeal to everybody, especially those that have posted the stuff in the first place, though often times those members recognise their postings were not in the best interests of AFF & move onwards, with improved posting habits. At times I've had to remove content that I myself thought to be of interest - yet it did not further the course of AFF and as such needed to go.
The decision to open the floodgates & allow threads on anything and everything is a long way off.
A look at the logs shows that the amount of posts in the bar area outnumbers the number of posts in any other section. This shows that more then a reasonable amount of off topic banter is left untouched as it is. Left unchecked - perhaps we should consider renaming AFF - "the talk about whatever you like" forums, incorporating a small talk about your ford stuff section.

XRQTR · 13-10-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Some threads do not meet the standards required by this forum and therefor they are closed.
These could be for various reasons such as poor quality, sexist, racial, politics, religion, demeaning to others and just plain offensive etc:
There are plenty of other Sites/Forums that can cater for the above on the www net.

I understand and appreciate your comments, but I still fail to see how any of the reasons that have been put forward by yourself had any relevance to the particualr threads.

Firstly, the standards required are not met by many threads, however they remain on the Forum, relatively untouched. One case in point last night 'PLASMA TV', the guy had a problem with his plasma tv and asked if anyone had experienced the same thing, how does this have anything to do with the Forum, are there not sites on the www that deal with this?? Yes there are, but you know what, it doesn't matter because that's what we pride ourselves on, being helpful and accomadating to fellow members showing potential members that we are a friendly bunch

On your second point, quality is a personal judgement, there were never any sexist remarks, nor racial slurs, politics and religion didn't even come into play nor would they have in such a thread and it was most certainly not demeaning to any particular group or gender.

True, there are many sites that can cater for the needs of people who feel they might like to have some fun, but in my defence, I would think that it might be easier to get along with people if you have certain common interests to begin with. It's hard enough to get along with people you don't even know, harder still to find some common ground.

Again, I am not looking to offend or upset anyone, merely trying to understand how so many self serving threads are allowed to go on and yet one that could be easily seen as serving as much of the Forum community as possible be stomped on at such an early stage. If it had gotten to a point, unlikely as it is, that the posts had gotten 'off color' then by all means, but to stop it before it could even truly succeed is offensive, not just to me but to anyone that might get some benifit from such a thread.

Yes I feel strongly about this, some might say unnecessarily, but it's something that I feel could bring a lot of good to the Forum but mostly to its members, and that's what we are supoosed to be doing. Isn't it??

XRQTR · 13-10-2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulos

however it was never intended as a complete free for all area to talk about stuff which is completely off tangent and of little interest to the majority of users.

Firstly let me apoligize if you have taken any offence to me using only this quote, none intended.

However, this is the point that I am trying to make, that there are already many threads that serve no more than a handful of members, yet very few take objection.

Why is it that people have decided that this is so inappropriate, where are the lines drawn, it is not clear anywhere just what is deemed appropriate and what is not.

The thread that I mentioned served really only a few, but I have no objection to someone asking for help, that's what we try to do, so how then can someone object to a single thread that could serve dozens if not hundreds of members, I'm still at a loss.

ronwest · 13-10-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

However, this is the point that I am trying to make, that there are already many threads that serve no more than a handful of members, yet very few take objection.

For an unsolicited but alternate view, I would be happy for the Bar to close.

In my short time here it has degenerated into a drivel-fest.

If I want to read about drivel the internet is an unlimited resource.

If I want to read about cars the internet is not an unlimited resource.

Whatever the mods decide is fine, though.

I accept that these forums aren't a democracy...

XRQTR · 13-10-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronwest

For an unsolicited but alternate view, I would be happy for the Bar to close.

In my short time here it has degenerated into a drivel-fest.

If I want to read about drivel the internet is an unlimited resource.

If I want to read about cars the internet is not an unlimited resource.

Whatever the mods decide is fine, though.

I accept that these forums aren't a democracy...

Like any Bar at any pub, that is what it is their for, to give people a place to catch up and have a chat, maybe meet some new people and that's why I can't understand and would like some light shed on what makes a good thread and what doesn't in the eyes of the Moderators and Admin that make the decision.

I mean isn't it fairer to all that some kind of substance be put to the decision making process rather than personal feeling which is quite often extremely biased, I mean someone could make a decision based on there mood that particular day rather than what a majority of people might prefer.

No system is perfect and I'm not saying this would make it so but some transparency is always a good thing.

ronwest · 13-10-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

that's why I can't understand and would like some light shed on what makes a good thread and what doesn't in the eyes of the Moderators and Admin that make the decision.

I mean isn't it fairer to all that some kind of substance be put to the decision making process rather than personal feeling which is quite often extremely biased, I mean someone could make a decision based on there mood that particular day rather than what a majority of people might prefer.

I agree with what you say here.

This is what happens in an "open, anything goes" area within a moderated, specific forum (Ford).

You want to know the "rules" as it seems to you to be inconsistent
whereas I'd be happy for it (Bar) to be gone altogether.

To my way of thinking if the Bar was gone, the problem goes with it.

As has been pointed out, there are many areas on the internet for non-specific chat.

I don't go to the Bar often and it's not to the point where it impacts on my enjoyment of this forum.... but it could get to that point.

wulos · 13-10-2006, 02:35 PM

The decision of what to remove is a judgement call that is made by the Admin / moderation team.
There are a number of factors that are used to decide what actions are necessary.
Does the post / thread breach the site terms and conditions? Which are clearly stated, and agreed to by all members at signup. These may have altered to address areas that were not stated clearly enough when initially drafted.
Does the thread have the potential to breach site T & C without a great deal of notice?
Has the thread repeatedly shifted off topic from it's initial discussion?
Has / Is the topic been talked about in another area on AFF?
Is the topic of significant general interest to warrant the usage of bandwidth that could be better utilised for discussion of Ford / Automitive related talk. This is the hardest and most controversial area, yet also the one where members would recieve better quality of information if they were to discuss it outside of the AFF environment.
Apart from breach of site T & C the above are just guidelines - not hard & fast rules set in concrete.

SSBUB · 13-10-2006, 04:16 PM

im a member of quite number of forums - and i agree that this one is policed quite heavily in certain aspects by one moderator inparticular. I dare not continue because i will get a holiday probably, but i see the point here. Whilst i would not engage in a 'flirt session' lol, i dont know why it was closed. Some people were actually having a laugh.

70caprigt3k · 13-10-2006, 04:22 PM

I agree with XRQTR, the reason people come here is to converse with other people who share the same interest/passion for fords. I for one think it would be a good to be able to socialise/converse with other people that share the same interests as me on a level other than cars because after all this is ford forums and the majority of people on this forum would have an automotive interest as well as a interest in fords.

philstoj · 13-10-2006, 04:41 PM

I agree with the above post, thats how it was in the old forum, but these days there are far too many wanna be mods who take it upon themselves to create trouble on here, they even go as far as pm, and emailing people to push thier views across..

I dont like bullshit threads either, but alot of the time i stick to the areas which i can contribute some sort of info or help.

Some people on here should just lighten up, and not take it so seriously, giving some help to the mods is okay, its a big job keeping an eye out on this large forum, but when thier ego takes over, thats when the trouble starts.

XRQTR · 13-10-2006, 04:41 PM

THE BAR
For non Automotive related Chat

This is what the area is called.

Therefore the rules as they stand have little bearing in the sense that they are being interpreted, after all the biggest argument is that it is not a chat forum, well I think that by default it is, certainly in The Bar anyway.

I am in no way trying to take over any threads, nor am I tryingto turn the Forum into a chat channel, but I do think it would be of benefit to have at the very least one thread that is open to people to just have some fun in. All too often people are chastised for going off topic, even though it may have been for only a couple of posts, hence he reasoning behind this thread.

I don't expect everyone to agree but as you have said you don't even go into the area so how is it then that you could have an opinion that could bear such weight, this is what I am calling for a stop to.

People often object to things that have no direct bearing on there time on or in the forums, how can this be allowed, how can someone who doesn't even read or for that matter respond in a particular thread say that it affects the quality of threads, how can they possibly have us believe that it affects there time on the Forum. This is what needs to be looked at.

Again I am not having a go at anyone, simply highlighting things that most of you that have objected to as being unsatifsfactory and down right unfair.

As I said in the beginning of this post, read the forum title:
THE BAR
For non Automotive related Chat

Cheers
Stef

4.9 EF Futura · 13-10-2006, 04:59 PM

All i would recommend is that you try and put yourself in a moderator's position. Some threads are off topic and probably not "on" but (in my experience moderating other forums) if they seem harmless enough then 'let the baby have its bottle'.

Then... there are threads on the other end of the spectrum. Threads that start out with good intentions and attract a lot of members - but moderators will have a bad "gut feeling" about where it's headed. 'Nip it in the bud' approach.

It's impossible for the moderators (remember they're human) to be 100% consistent. Particularly in 'off topic' type forums like the bar. A lot of greay areas.

I would be thankful of what we ARE allowed to discuss in there. It would be very simple for them to just close the Bar - a result that i dont think would benefit many people at all.

One point i think has a lot of merit is people 'playing moderator' and demanding that threads be closed etc. AFAIK, AFF has a report post button. It would be nice to see that used, instead of cluttering a thread with a secondary debate about wether it should be allowed or not.

ronwest · 13-10-2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTR

I don't expect everyone to agree but as you have said you don't even go into the area so how is it then that you could have an opinion that could bear such weight, this is what I am calling for a stop to.

As far as I can see, I'm the only one who stated that I don't go to the Bar (much) so I can only assume the above quote is aimed at me (it really does help if you either quote or mention the nick of the person).

If it is me that you mean, I'm a little confused by your response.

My opinion bears zero weight in these forums.

I'm the same as you - someone who comes along from time to time to either contribute or to source information.

I'm different to you in that I don't expect (and in fact would rather not have) a bunch of drivel on an info based site but if mods/admins want the Bar to exist, I'm ok with that... I'm sure no-one will lose sleep about it, either way.

There used to be a saying during old ftp exchanges which was "your box; your rules".
I tend to adhere to that policy. If I don't like what happens on any site/forum I'll go elsewhere.

Anyhoo, good luck with your endeavour...

05MkIIFutura · 13-10-2006, 05:11 PM

XRQTR brings forward views which are not that unreasonable.

Perhaps the forum owners need to decide what direction they want the site to take. It could become very technical and hold a wealth of knowledge about our cars or could go and become a social community for those of us who own Fords to spend more of our already shrinking time on the PC as a virtual form of "real" interaction with people

I for one have found MANY people on this forum to be a wealthy source of knowledge on my car and have gained greatly from this. The ability to draw on many, many brains filled with experience and ideas is truley awesome.

But with that said I have also found this site to be one that lets those people who wish to push their thoughts of view and shun anyone elses differing opinion to do such, and these seems to be, quiet frankly, unfair, and pretty much damn useless to anyone. The fact that some of us have the ability to moderate only gives some the ability to do so to a greater extent (and i am not suggesting that there are many here who do this)

To have topics on this site about your cat giving birth to kittens, Deep Fried Coke, North Korea and Nuclear weapons, the Temp in Melb, etc etc have absolutely ZERO relevance to our motor-vehicles, and aspects of politics and religion all reared their heads, makes for a good argument to remove these posts and save bandwidth for Ford-related talk.

Now what direction the Forum takes is one that should be considered, while I believe it would be better used as a purely technical resources, others might not. And if discussed in a logical and fair way, everyones thoughts and ideas could be considered.

Thats my opinion and I hope it has some relevance.
.

XRQTR · 13-10-2006, 05:48 PM

I must apologise Ronwest to you for that, unfortunately you were the only person in here at the moment to state this however it happens quite often in many threads.

Again my deepest apologies.

Something along those lines though is what I have just noticed, the first person to take any objection to the thread in question MYVYSS mentioned something about another forum, that being Ausrevs. Now I have noticed that this member firstly lives in Brisbane, why then is he posting a thread telling people about a cruise that is being run in Melbourne. Why also did he happen to mention Ausrevs in particular.

I am not going to speculate but simply put these questions to you for yourselves to have a think about, until this person had a crack there was nothing but praise for the thread.

This is another issue, Lurkers, now again I am not accusing this person of being one as such, however, it does strike me as rather strange that someone who lives in Brisbane and drives a Holden is posting about a cruise that is in another state to that in which he lives. As I said MYVYSS was the first person to make a complaint about appropriate threads and thread content and yet at the same time tries to pick up a few converts to another forum in the process. Is that not inappropriate behaviour??

Case in point

Quote:

Originally Posted by MYVYSS

I thought that was what msn was for! Oh and AUSREVS!!!!

Afew too many exclamation marks trying to get a point accross

And finally to the point made about the work Mods and Admin do, of course I realise that there job is a difficult one, anyone that doesnt is either a fool or blind. Some restraint and self regulation needs to take place if there job is to be made any easier, something which I would have thought would have aided the Flirt thread to survive, people being civil to each other or at least trying.

I would have thought that the majority of members on this Forum would have the maturity and understanding to be able to chat to each other in a civil manner, without having to have our decisions made for us 'just incase'.

Also I am glad that I am not the only person that is seeing too much policing going on by regular members.

XRQTOR · 13-10-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

To have topics on this site about your cat giving birth to kittens, Deep Fried Coke, North Korea and Nuclear weapons, the Temp in Melb, etc etc have absolutely ZERO relevance to our motor-vehicles, and aspects of politics and religion all reared their heads, makes for a good argument to remove these posts and save bandwidth for Ford-related talk.

.
.

SOrry to quote you mate but this is exactly the type of stuff that XRQTR is pointing at in relation to his complaint, how does a thread on deep fried coke stand when a thread albeit alittle off topic was actually getting a forum member's interacting.

Now i would assume that the mod team would like to see some more female member's on the site, XRQTR was being very polite although cheeky at times and i'm sure made the new female member's feel extremly welcome. Some women might stay clear of a car website in fear of thinking only beer drinking bogans visit and will proablly harass them at an given chance, the chatting/banter/dribble/flirting as some would like to call it prooves otherwise.

**Falcon Coupe** · 13-10-2006, 06:09 PM

What i dislike about that kind of thread is, they attract the kind of member who generally has a very low post count, but have in fact posted many times, meaning they live in the bar which is 80% dribble, to me they are of little relevance to a car related forum.

XRQTOR · 13-10-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

What i dislike about that kind of thread is, they attract the kind of member who generally has a very low post count, but have in fact posted many times, meaning they live in the bar which is 80% dribble, to me they are of little relevance to a car related forum.

To a point that is true mate but some of the people involved in that thread were in fact new member's, it seemed to be the member's with the low post count that caused a stir about it.

nugget378 · 13-10-2006, 06:28 PM

Lavalife and such is for finding gangas :P , the forums is for FORD's and car stuff no?...
whats the issue???

05MkIIFutura · 13-10-2006, 06:37 PM

If off-topic talk/banter/flirting is what the forum wants to be served by the server (after some reasonable discussion on the matter) then thats great, i have absolutely ZERO problem with that.

What i would like to see is a clear message sent out that this sort of stuff is not welcome in the technical threads. The amount of threads that go downhill from a technical matter to how many Fords someone has driven in the last year (and then rightly has the authority to be the "all-mighty" on the subject) is amazing. If the mods can work to keep technical topics "on-topic" and allow free rein (within posting rules) on the others, then I think we could all be happy.

05MkIIFutura · 13-10-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTOR

SOrry to quote you mate but this is exactly the type of stuff that XRQTR is pointing at in relation to his complaint, how does a thread on deep fried coke stand when a thread albeit alittle off topic was actually getting a forum member's interacting.

I know it didnt sound that way but i was in fact supporting you argument, but i also tacked on that i thought the mods should be working more to keep the two clearly seperate, and i think i didnt convey my message that clearly. Sorry about that

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRQTOR

SOrry to quote you mate but

Thats fine quoting me, you made your point in a clear and logical manner which didnt use any aggressive/personal remarks. I am a fair bloke and am happy to read and take note of ANYONES response to a statement I make.

XRQTR · 13-10-2006, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

If off-topic talk/banter/flirting is what the forum wants to be served by the server (after some reasonable discussion on the matter) then thats great, i have absolutely ZERO problem with that.

What i would like to see is a clear message sent out that this sort of stuff is not welcome in the technical threads. The amount of threads that go downhill from a technical matter to how many Fords someone has driven in the last year (and then rightly has the authority to be the "all-mighty" on the subject) is amazing. If the mods can work to keep technical topics "on-topic" and allow free rein (within posting rules) on the others, then I think we could all be happy.

That's the point, all I was trying to do was give people a place to do it, I dilsike thread pirates as much as the next person.

347_XR8 · 13-10-2006, 06:57 PM

I agree with XRQTR
The Bar is for un-related car talk. I'm a regular on many forums and many car clubs. I know that most of the time the talk is not about cars, due to the fact that alot of people who are part of car forums, work on cars for a living. If people have got a question about a certain part of the automobile, then 95% they will post it in the appropriate section. The other 5% consists of questions which may fall into more then one category, new members not used to the site and yes, some just plain morons.

From my perspective i sw this thread and it brang a smile to my face, because i could see the majority of people who were posting in there were having fun......isn't that what it's all about?
Yes, if the thread had turn "ugly" or "off topic" sure shut it down, and it would have been relevant why, but for some harmless laughs (there were no sexist, racial, religous, political or personal attack on ANYONE) i'm really at a loss to see why it was shut down.
Personally, from threads to which i have indulged in you get an insight into what people may be like, so when you meet them you can go "Oh your ****insert name***, what you said about empty beer bottles and the fact that they may leave oneself rather in-capacititated was quiet funny in post-modernistic fashion" (Translation: "HEY! Your ***Insert name****, your bloody funny! I'm ***insert another name*** = friendship)

big_pete · 13-10-2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 347_XR8

I agree with XRQTR
The Bar is for un-related car talk. I'm a regular on many forums and many car clubs. I know that most of the time the talk is not about cars, due to the fact that alot of people who are part of car forums, work on cars for a living. If people have got a question about a certain part of the automobile, then 95% they will post it in the appropriate section. The other 5% consists of questions which may fall into more then one category, new members not used to the site and yes, some just plain morons.

From my perspective i sw this thread and it brang a smile to my face, because i could see the majority of people who were posting in there were having fun......isn't that what it's all about?
Yes, if the thread had turn "ugly" or "off topic" sure shut it down, and it would have been relevant why, but for some harmless laughs (there were no sexist, racial, religous, political or personal attack on ANYONE) i'm really at a loss to see why it was shut down.
Personally, from threads to which i have indulged in you get an insight into what people may be like, so when you meet them you can go "Oh your ****insert name***, what you said about empty beer bottles and the fact that they may leave oneself rather in-capacititated was quiet funny in post-modernistic fashion" (Translation: "HEY! Your ***Insert name****, your bloody funny! I'm ***insert another name*** = friendship)

i agree with this 100%

i didnt see the problem with the thread, it had as much (if not more) relevance as any other thread in the bar.
if the bar was to go, im sure alot of people would go with it, as the forums wouldnt be as enjoyable to visit and participate in.
not everyone needs to know technical information or talk cars all the time. and the bar is a good place to participate and get involved with the forums. dribble or otherwise

**Sorted** · 13-10-2006, 07:36 PM

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...4&page=1&pp=10

Took 385 posts until this one got closed and XRQTR's was closed after what? 10 posts, hmmmmmmmmm

XA-Coupe · 13-10-2006, 07:49 PM

The bar is for non automotive chat .. not any junk that might tickle one's fancy. The flirting thread had NOTHING going for it and would have added the same to the forum community as a whole. A horny few may have benefitted but that's it.
This is the end of this discussion. If I don't close this thread it will degenerate into nit picking.. and it's already on th way.

**russellw** · 13-10-2006, 09:40 PM

Let me add a few comments to this thread.

It is always a vexed issue when we come to consider what should be allowed in an off topic area and we generally take a fairly lenient view as to what can be posted. In the case of the 'flirt' thread we felt that it was too far outside the direction that this forum should be taking and one that was better served by other internet sites and IRC channels that catered to those requirements.

The Bar is NOT an unmoderated forum - the only one of these that exists here is for the DM's to use and even that has some boundaries that can't be crossed and thus the Bar is not a free for all area. Indeed it exists only to maintain a community spirit within the forum in recognition that there are plenty of other interests that our members want to discuss.

Cheers
Russ