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#1 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 80
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If I am going to buy a ring and the jeweller says they can provide a cert of registration for it, is that a solid foundation for determining its real value?
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#2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ipswich, Qld
Posts: 1,354
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When I got my engagement ring (and I assume that's what you might be talking about, or something similar), the price was included on the certificate that came with it...not the sale price of the item, but the RRP. Mostly for insurance purposes.
Obviously, the real value is only determinable by whoever is going to be wearing it...mine cost a bit, but is now priceless to me... edit: yep, apparently I am a real girl after all... ![]() ![]()
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----------------------------------------------------- 2012 Focus ST Tangerine Scream Continually having a battle of wits with unarmed opponents. Sez ![]() Photo's by Sez Last edited by SEZ213; 09-05-2011 at 03:44 PM. |
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#3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,336
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Not sure what cert of registration is, it could have a valuation cert in it. But you need a valuation cert.
The valuation cert will show you exactly what the ring is, what metal it is made from and any gems that are attached to it. It will also have the description of what the gem is. The example of the description will be 18ct Y/gold ring. .05ct princess cut diamond. Last edited by xisled; 09-05-2011 at 04:19 PM. |
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#4 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 80
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thanks.
It is definitely a cert of registration for 'insurance purproses.' The word 'valuation certitificate' was not used. |
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#5 | |||
Cane Farmer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tom Price, WA
Posts: 4,056
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Don't do it!
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1994 ED XR6T - Cobalt Blue. 2009 FG XR6 - Black. Quote:
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#6 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 80
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just checking in case others have heard of these things and know whether its worth the paper it's written on.
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#7 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 80
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#8 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,336
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I used to work in insurance in home and motor claims. You need a valuation cert. It needs to include a description of the item and it's value.
If these things are not shown on the cert and you need to replace it under insurance. The insurance company will have to guess from photos and what is on the cert. May not be 100 percent correct and you may not get what you had back. The price you purchased for may not reflect the true value of the ring. I would get the ring valued at the jeweler of your choice. With insurance, you usually need to get the ring valued every 3 or so years. IMO you need to get the ring valued at a independent place, and have the ring actually valued with a cert. If you do not, then you may have trouble replacing it on insurance if you need to. Any jeweler could do a valuation cert cost around $50 bucks I think. I have come across times where the person has thought they have done the right thing, but what they had was not able to be used by the insurance company, and what the insurance company replaced it with was not what they had. Also make sure your ring is covered for loss, damage or theft for outside the house. If you have any quiestions you can ask here or PM me. |
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#9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,421
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Definitely need one. I am buying a vintage art deco ring and theyb are even providing one for that!
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#10 | ||
xls
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bris.
Posts: 344
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Definitely a good thing to have but you can specify insured amount without one with a lot of insurers. It will just be catered for in your premium like an agreed value on a car.
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'03 BA XLS Falcon. '08 BF SR Falcon. '08 CL Focus. |
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#11 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Filling up
Posts: 1,459
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VIXEN MK II GT 0238 with Sunroof and tinted windows with out all the go fast bits I actually need ![]() |
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#12 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bundaberg
Posts: 604
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Basically what XISLED said is correct- Valuations as such aren't a legal requirement, they are however required if you choose to insure them if the item is above your maximum claim allowable by your insurance company. A "proof of Purchase Certificate" is much the same. The value on a Valuation Certificate is the Full Retail Replacement Value of the item ie if you lost it and need another "handmade" replacement that is what it'd cost. If you come to sell the item expect to get at the most 1/4 (maybe 1/2 if selling privately) of the valuation.
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#13 | ||
I.B.S is a pain in d'***
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Central Coast NSW
Posts: 1,431
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Perhaps your jeweller can offer you a comprehensive insurance cover on your ring?
Valuations certificates are an OPINION only! ie there is no "true" value of any item of jewellery. Certificates will vary from jeweller to jeweller, and there is no legal requirement to have any "qualifications" when writing a certificate. Insurance companies don't even investigate or confirm the value on the certificate!
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#14 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,336
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Last edited by xisled; 10-05-2011 at 11:54 PM. |
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#15 | |||
I.B.S is a pain in d'***
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Central Coast NSW
Posts: 1,431
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Quote:
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I DONT BELIEVE IN NOS.............but if its given to you free at the hospital well then ![]() |
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#16 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,336
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They use there own jeweler when doing the claim.
Just for peoples info on how you can insure your jewelry on the policy and what you do to cover it outside the house. Depends how you set the policy up, but the premium is usually based on the dollar amount, not what the item actually is. With a certain company it would cost about $35 odd dollars to insure $1000 worth of items outside the house, for loss, damage or theft. So a ring that was worth 3k would be around $100 dollars to insure it for loss, damage or theft outside the house on top of your policy. But with most company's specially with jewelry they have limit's on how much they will cover certain items on the policy under normal events. Such as fire or theft from the home. The limit may be $1000 per item and $5000 in total. So what you can do it specify items individually and it does not go against the limits on your policy and it will be shown as a separate item on the paper work. This usually does not cost anything to do. Premium would be same with it or not. But this does not cover it for loss, damage or theft away from home. This is where you add the extra cover to cover the items outside the house. Last edited by xisled; 11-05-2011 at 12:16 AM. |
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#17 | |||
I.B.S is a pain in d'***
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Central Coast NSW
Posts: 1,431
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Quote:
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I DONT BELIEVE IN NOS.............but if its given to you free at the hospital well then ![]() |
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#18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,336
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Quote:
You can tell the insurance company the item is worth 1 million dollars, and they will charge you accordingly. All company's have different ways of working things out. My example was a very rough example and the figures may not be 100 per cent correct. It more of an example of how they work it out rather than the actual costing. Last edited by xisled; 11-05-2011 at 05:03 PM. |
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#19 | |||
I.B.S is a pain in d'***
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Central Coast NSW
Posts: 1,431
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Quote:
1. I buy a ring for $10,000. 2. I get a valuation certificate that says it worth $20,000. 3. I send a copy of the certificate to my insurance company, they insure the ring for $20,000, and my annual premium is say $750. 4. Ring goes missing. 5. I lodge a claim with my insurer and they approve the claim. 6. They send me back to the original place i purchased the ring to collect an exact replacement. 7. The jeweller charges the same price to the insurer that i paid originally ($10,000). Do you see what i am alluding to? Is the "valuation" price simply a way of insurers charging more on premiums? And if not, then why don't they offer me a gift voucher or cheque for $20,000?
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I DONT BELIEVE IN NOS.............but if its given to you free at the hospital well then ![]() |
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#20 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,336
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If you look at it that way, yes it is a way for insurance company's to charge more. But if you do not insure it for value you may be under insuring and at claim time risking not to get the item back. But the main aim for insurance company's is to replace the item and yes they get a huge discount on items and that is why they do not usually send a cheque because it cost them more. .
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#21 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bundaberg
Posts: 604
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#22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hervey Bay
Posts: 5,225
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The amount on a valuation certificate you get from any QUALIFIED LEGITIMATE VALUER is reflective of the pieces retail sales value, not the actual value if the piece itself.
The value of the piece itself will always be less, as the materials obviously dont include the cost of labour and store profit. My father, a 42 year veteran of the handmade jewellery trade, has made many many rings that have doubled (sometimes more) in value when the valuation certificate is done. And the entire trade knows that the valuation certificate value is largely inflated over the actual materials cost price. For example, dad makes a ring and the materials cost $10,000. He decides to make a 20% profit for his time and effort, so he charges his client $12,000. My dad being a wholesale/private jeweller sends the ring to an independant valuer for inspection. The value comes back at say $22,000, and this is what it should be insured for. Reason being, if dad made this ring at the request of a retail store, he would charge the store $12k still, but the store (like all large chains) would typically add a 100% profit markup to the piece. You would be paying $22k for the piece from a Bevilles or Zamels or Hoskings or Tiffanys, etc, etc. If you were to loose the ring and claim on insurance, my dad would happily make it again for $12k. But if he decided to retire or didn't want to, and you were forced to goto a retail store, the $12k would get you half of what you had. You'd need a near $22k insurance value to get the same thing back. Obviously the insurance company would negotiate with the store, but the end result is if it isn't insured for enough, you don't get back what you've lost. ie, less gold, smaller stones, lesser quality stones, etc, etc. From memory his best effort was a $47,000 engagement ring for a young investment banker that had a valuation of $96,000. I dunno how this chick was able wear a ring that heavy and not be scared about losing it. ![]() Simply most of the inflation in price is in the labour and profit margin for the store, and people forget that when insuring things like this. |
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#23 | ||||
Mrs Russellw
![]() ![]() Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kilmore - on the road to Heathcote!
Posts: 1,362
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Quote:
No matter what you buy, get an INDEPENDENT Valuation (there are people that do nothing else and the laws are strict with them) on the ring BEFORE you pay for it just to make sure you are in fact getting value for your money. If you are spending $1000 it is less important but $10K is getting serious so be careful. You will also find that independent small privately owned Jeweller Workshops do superior work and are very competitive and better value for money. Cheers Gaela
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AUSTRALIA'S QUICKEST UNOPENED N/A GT AND FIRST IN THE 11 SECONDS....................... 11.96 @ 117.88mph & 11.97 @ 118.11mph (60ft 1.69)
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#24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hervey Bay
Posts: 5,225
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Quote:
![]() As the son of a family of jewellers, I have no jewellery at all, not even a chain.. It does disappoint them. lol But like you said, spending $1k retail or less, valuations aren't required, as the materials costs are very low, are generally cast and quickly thrown together. Spending much more, its definitely worth it. Only a very trained eye can tell the difference between a $5k and $2k diamond of same size. Either a trained eye or a well trained woman actually, if my mother is any gauge... lol Oh, and a free plug for my dad. He works out of Hervey Bay (not Melbourne anymore) and in most cases its cheaper to fly there and back to design and pickup something than it is to buy something in a major store... Or he does email quotes and well insured mail deliveries to get his stuff around Australia. ![]() |
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#25 | |||
I.B.S is a pain in d'***
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Central Coast NSW
Posts: 1,431
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Quote:
- a valuer. - a registered valuer. - a jeweller. - a qualified jeweller. - a jewellery association member. They only require the "certificate" to be from a "jewellery store" with an ABN!!!!! I own a jewellery store. I manufacture my own jewellery. I am a metal-smith with training and qualifications. I am the third generation of a family with long history in the jewellery industry. I am a member of the JAA (Jewellers Association of Australia). I am constantly asked to investigate jewellery cases presented before the department of Fair Trading. I am constantly in contact with the JAA and a regular contributor to our industry info-magazine "Jeweller". And i have been banging my head against a wall with the long running scam insurance companies have been pulling over jewellery buyers. The current system is ridiculous, unfair and down-right dishonest. It also highlights significant service failures with inexperienced and unqualified people selling "jewellery" and making valuations worthless. I see on a weekly basis rings that come with over-inflated valuations. This is the exact reason i now provide my own comprehensive insurance policy on my diamond rings. I don't need to provide a "certificate" instead i provide a policy that proves the value and worth of my jewellery. My customers are covered for full replacement, new for old, regardless of changes in market conditions or "value". To get a REAL certificate, your first have to BUY the ring, LEAVE the store, then find a REGISTERED VALUER! So what do you do when the valuer tells you its not worth as much as you expected, well after you left the store? Its a hell of a lot harder to seek a recourse after you accept/collect an item.
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I DONT BELIEVE IN NOS.............but if its given to you free at the hospital well then ![]() |
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#26 | ||||
Mrs Russellw
![]() ![]() Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kilmore - on the road to Heathcote!
Posts: 1,362
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Quote:
![]() We need to have an addition to our Registration System - are you a Plumber, Sparky, Builder or Jeweller? ![]() Cheers Gaela
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AUSTRALIA'S QUICKEST UNOPENED N/A GT AND FIRST IN THE 11 SECONDS....................... 11.96 @ 117.88mph & 11.97 @ 118.11mph (60ft 1.69)
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#27 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bundaberg
Posts: 604
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WOW! And i thought I was the only jeweller on here! Good one guys,i'm not alone!
But as said previously, valuations aren't worth the paper they're written on, i used to do them and still do sometimes,but i have enough repair work to keep me busy in Bundy. |
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#28 | |||
Mrs Russellw
![]() ![]() Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kilmore - on the road to Heathcote!
Posts: 1,362
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Any of you in Victoria?
GT
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AUSTRALIA'S QUICKEST UNOPENED N/A GT AND FIRST IN THE 11 SECONDS....................... 11.96 @ 117.88mph & 11.97 @ 118.11mph (60ft 1.69)
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#29 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ipswich, Qld
Posts: 1,354
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Ahah! I'm in heaven! I now know where to go when I want my ring redesigned! And you're all the right spot!
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__________________
----------------------------------------------------- 2012 Focus ST Tangerine Scream Continually having a battle of wits with unarmed opponents. Sez ![]() Photo's by Sez |
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