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Old 05-07-2010, 11:22 PM   #1
04redxr8
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Default Airbags and Child Restraints

I have just purchased a new VE SSV ute for work. (Don't ask, its not the issue). The questions I have is in relation to the 6 airbags in the front (dash, side and curtain). The car has a child restraint anchorage point and instructions in the owners manual on correct fitment of child booster seats.

It does specifically indicate not to use a rearward facing car seat infront of an airbag. I already knew this.

My dilema is, I have a 4 year old daughter in kindy, who loves it when I pick her up my ute. (previous was a BF II, only drivers airbag). She travels in a booster seat, with a safety harness and the seatbealt pinned downed so it only crosses her lap.

Is this safe with the airbags? The ute is solely a work car, and would only be used as a treat, but I would want to know if this is a safe situation just in case.

I have already spoken to Queensland Ambulance Service, Holden and the Depertment of Transport and have not been able to get a definite answer.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Old 05-07-2010, 11:26 PM   #2
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I believe that as long as the child is outside the deployment area of all the airbags when restrained in the seat there is minimal risk. You will never get a definitive answer, no one will say that your child will be 100% safe in an accident, too many variables to give that sort of assurance.
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Old 05-07-2010, 11:37 PM   #3
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Thank you Gecko. Have you ever seen an accident with airbags involving small children?

I only ask as my daughter really wants to go in the new ute, but I am to scared of the unknown. As stated, I do make sure she is properly restrained. I am just unsure as to whether there is more danger, or is it safer for someone so small.
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Old 05-07-2010, 11:59 PM   #4
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I wouldn't allow her to travel in the front of the car; in SA you not allowed to have child in the front of the car until they are 7 years old.. with all those air bags I wouldn't risk if you were in accident, those air bags could do some serious damage to her.
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Old 06-07-2010, 01:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordFairlaneAU
I wouldn't allow her to travel in the front of the car; in SA you not allowed to have child in the front of the car until they are 7 years old.. with all those air bags I wouldn't risk if you were in accident, those air bags could do some serious damage to her.
So do you suggest he throw her in the tray then
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Old 06-07-2010, 01:35 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Bossxr8
So do you suggest he throw her in the tray then
Just strap her down REAL tight.

The weight sensing in the seat happens in most upper level cars with a passenger front airbag and side airbag but I am not sure how many of them will differentiate adult and child weights and adapt airbag deployment to suit. I think in most cases it is just a question on deployment or not depending on occupancy.

A lot depends on the weight too, I know in our Mini the weight of my work bag does not set off the occupant sensor as the seat belt warning does not illuminate, my bag can be as heavy as a small child at times.
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Old 06-07-2010, 01:19 AM   #7
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when i did the FPV drivers course with the GT . the instructer told us that children under 13 should not sit in the front seat of the falcon with airbags . my kids are 12 and 10 and i am only just allowing the 12 year old to sit in the front now because of this statement . the instructer through it in as part of the theory course , and then reimbursed it when questioned .
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Old 06-07-2010, 02:38 AM   #8
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At the moment we've got a VY sedan (XR6 is coming) and I do let my 11 year old sit in the front. It only has the two airbags (Driver & Passenger Front), but I always make sure that the passenger seat is moved back to its rear most position. I figure the further away they are from the deployment area, the better.

I know all the safety advice says kids should ride in the back, and I'm not for one second diputing that, but I am curious as to why, if anyone knows for sure.
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Old 06-07-2010, 02:59 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by 04redxr8
I have already spoken to Queensland Ambulance Service, Holden and the Depertment of Transport and have not been able to get a definite answer.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Just another thought, try your states equivilent of the RAC (here in WA), or RACV (Victoria). Motoring organisations like this should have some degree of experience and/or expertise to offer.
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Old 06-07-2010, 06:07 AM   #10
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I would not say that a 4 year old in the front of any car is advisable, the front passenger is the death seat in any car.

If it is a must occur situation, you can limit any risk by ensuring the child is restrained by the best multi point harness available, the seat is moved all the way back from the bag deployment areas and taught to never have any toys or books etc in front of the airbags at all (best to have no items with the child in the front).

Of course prevention is the best option in any car and drive like you really do have precious cargo (because you do). Drive within the speed limit, give good distance to the car in front, scan well ahead in traffic and slow through any intersection and cover the brake (green lights etc). This sounds like common sense I know but it amazing how many people don't do it and these techniques reduce more injuries than any ABS, airbags, harness, DSC etc.

Road laws that do not allow children in the front will be applicable when other seats are available, not sure they apply when one is not. Like I said, not a great option but out of necessity one that can be managed. I am not in any way saying it is absolutely safe and without risk, nor am I saying a ute is a good choice in car.

Interesting thought though, a ute that is driven carefully is better than a large family car where the kids are bunged in the back, allowed to have toys and books (that become missiles in an accident) and driven without adequate concern for safety.
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Old 06-07-2010, 07:31 AM   #11
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slightly off topic but here in s.a. and possibly nation wide, there is a raft of changes coming in regarding kids in cars. how you can and can't restrain them etc etc.

the silly thing is, it goes on age. most new laws confirm that the people thinking them up are morons!!

my brother has a 3yr old boy that makes some 5yr olds look small. also boys and girls are all different shapes and sizes.

these laws should be based on weight and height, with age as a rough reference. surely these boffins can see the huge variation in sizes when sorted by age!
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Old 06-07-2010, 11:50 AM   #12
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I always believed that with today's new cars, there were sensors in the seats which can judge whether or not there is someone in that seat, and by judging the weight - it will decide whether or not to deploy the airbag? Or is this only in German cars atm?

I'm not sure where I heard this but I think it was probably on the Discovery Channel
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fev
I always believed that with today's new cars, there were sensors in the seats which can judge whether or not there is someone in that seat, and by judging the weight - it will decide whether or not to deploy the airbag? Or is this only in German cars atm?

I'm not sure where I heard this but I think it was probably on the Discovery Channel
I think with late model Audis this is the case.

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Old 06-07-2010, 12:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04redxr8
I have just purchased a new VE SSV ute for work. (Don't ask, its not the issue). The questions I have is in relation to the 6 airbags in the front (dash, side and curtain). The car has a child restraint anchorage point and instructions in the owners manual on correct fitment of child booster seats.

It does specifically indicate not to use a rearward facing car seat infront of an airbag. I already knew this.

My dilema is, I have a 4 year old daughter in kindy, who loves it when I pick her up my ute. (previous was a BF II, only drivers airbag). She travels in a booster seat, with a safety harness and the seatbealt pinned downed so it only crosses her lap.

Is this safe with the airbags? The ute is solely a work car, and would only be used as a treat, but I would want to know if this is a safe situation just in case.

I have already spoken to Queensland Ambulance Service, Holden and the Depertment of Transport and have not been able to get a definite answer.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Congrats on the new ute - a bit better equipted than the BF2 I would say
Yes you can as long as what has been said before and you are doing the correct procedure placing here in a harness with the seat all the way back.
The one that grinds my gears is the stupid ones that sit in the passenger seat with their feet and legs on the dash - have you ever seen a leg that has been dislocated from the hip in a violent explosion not real sweet and a lot of pain to the one involved and it is usually young women that it happens to
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:21 PM   #15
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I know there are new laws coming in for child restraints as mentioned above. One of which is that in a sedan a young child isn't allowed in the front unless every other sesat is taken. There was a mention of utes, in a ute they can be seated in the front, but there was also talk about seats and capsules etc but sorry I can't remember what they were.
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:50 PM   #16
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i pick up my 3.5 year old in my au ute evey day i have dual air bags and i realise the cover hitting him in the face would not be good but i don't think it would be life thretening(i know you can die from sneezing too,but i think 1 in a million that air bag cover would kill, different story for under 1 year old but seat would be backwards). even my au has wiring that is for airbag under seat.
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Old 06-07-2010, 10:19 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by cedric
i pick up my 3.5 year old in my au ute evey day i have dual air bags and i realise the cover hitting him in the face would not be good but i don't think it would be life thretening(i know you can die from sneezing too,but i think 1 in a million that air bag cover would kill, different story for under 1 year old but seat would be backwards). even my au has wiring that is for airbag under seat.

Depends on how close to the airbag your child is. A deploying airbag can break an adult arm if it is too close, imagine a child's face. I will give you a hint, a Laforte's fracture is a break though the eye sockets, cheek bones and upper jaw forming an island of unattached bone in your child's face that is often accompanied by a skull fracture, and yes is it immediately life threatening.

I hope you have that seat right back, a great harness and booster seat or you are playing with your child's life.

I do not intend on sounding mean or anything but some things scare me and people not realising the the force of an airbag is one. I have seen many airbag injuries, normally from someone having an item between them and the bag or a body part against the cover/too close to the cover during deployment. Trust me, a high force impact from the bag on a child in the face could kill and it is not a 1 in a million chance.
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