AU II hard to start cold.

[hfcrussell]

Hi all,

Ive got an AU series 2 wagon that has done 130,000 kays and is being very tempramental about cold starting on 15-30 degree days.

Today i tried to start it cold, took minutes before it started and when it did, it was after turning the key to the off position. Once its hot it will start first go and also seems a bit underpowered and jerky on take off.

Ive disconnected the battery a couple of weeks ago and it seemed better for a couple of three days and then turned to sh!t again. Saturday i put some BP ultimate in the tank. Sunday i took the throttle body off and cleaned it (runs better) but it was not real dirty. The injectors were cleaned not that long ago.


What should i do next?

thanks,

Russell.

XAGT, AUII, BAXTMKII.................Toyota corolla

[TwistedEL]

Could be anything... first thing I would be doing is checking for spark

[toolchick01]

Something I learned from tafe was that if your car is hard to start cold, turn the head lights on for a min or 2, then start the car. Used to work well in my Honda during winter.

[au2sw]

could be a couple of things, your o2 sensor may be on its way out (when they are hot they work the best, would explain hot starts), could be spark related, but as it does fire up, its unlikely. when you cleaned the t/b, did you happen to do the sensors at the t/b as well? they may not have been touched when you cleaned t/b. you say that re-set the ecu worked for a few days? get your local mechanic to put his scan tool on it and see what codes are thrown up. that will be the best (and cheapest) way in the long run.
col

[hfcrussell]

Thanks for your replies.

If its the O2 where is it? Can it be serviced?? is it an over the counter part???

I drove it yesterday and is very underpowered under 2000 rpm almost like theres no fuel.

Thanks,


Russell.

[xygoonman]

should be hanging off the exhaust somewhere..back part of headers underneath..has a wire hanging out of it

[bodes-sh]

you can get new o2 sensors off ebay for $55 plus postage, looking from the front of the car, on the left of the engine where the exhaust manifold comes out there will be a plug with some wires hanging off it. this is the o2 sensor. the other symptoms you have described could also be a dodgy tps, is it using any more fuel than normal?

[hfcrussell]

Honestly cant say what the fuel consumption is. Ive bought the missus a BA XT MkII and have to sell the trusty old AUII wagon, but cant if it wont even start.

According to the missus the problem has been getting progressivley worse.

At $55 + postage on eBay, what do they normaly go for??

Thanks,

Russell.

[JC]

Originally Posted by hfcrussell

Honestly cant say what the fuel consumption is. Ive bought the missus a BA XT MkII and have to sell the trusty old AUII wagon, but cant if it wont even start.

According to the missus the problem has been getting progressivley worse.

At $55 + postage on eBay, what do they normaly go for??

Thanks,

Russell.

Ford prices used to be over $300 when the AU was new, but as it's the same part number for the BAs as well, I'm guessing it's still up around that price.

Even Autobarn/Repco etc were silly prices. The same O2 sensor is used in the I6 and the V8, but they want something like $240 for the I6, and $180 each for the V8.

The ebay ones are genuine Bosch, and work a treat - though I doubt the O2 sensor would actually stop the car from starting - it's only job is to regulate fuel mixture during closed loop running, which is part throttle or ***, not cold start. Cold start is set in the ECU to run rich, and if you're not getting enough fuel through, this is why she won't start properly, though I have no idea why the fuel system would work better when the car's warm.

[JC]

If the car turns over (ie starter works), but it doesn't fire, then I would say it's fuel or spark related. So, I'd be checking fuel filter and fuel pump (filter is only $20 odd, but hard-ish to fit, fuel pump is a bit more expensive and a bugger to fit in a wagon).

Once it's starts, if it sort of runs OK, then I reckon spark is probably OK, so I'm really thinking it's fuel related. Get that filter checked, and if it's OK, definitely get the pump checked too.

[TwistedEL]

Backing up JC's last comment, it won't be the O2 sensor, they are not used when cold. They have an internal heater to get them up to operating temperature once the car has already started.

I would be checking fuel pump, filter, pressure regulator, coil, plugs and leads.

[Mechan1k]

I found when I had a coil pack starting to go (terminals were not in good nick either) ... I was having starting and running issues.

But to me it sounds more like a fuel issue ... I'd be going with block fuel filter first.

[GK]

If you're going for the fuel filter, this may help.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...3&postcount=37

All the best with it. KUP (keep us posted!)

GK

[hfcrussell]

Thanks for the encouragement fellas.

Ive come home today with a ne fuel filter and air filter.

Going out to fit them now......

Thanks for the link GK, thats very informative. I have printed it out.

Russell.

[hfcrussell]

Ok. That was a good 40 minute job. 10 minutes to find the right tools (i did find a 9/16th spanner fitted better than the 15mm) and jack the car up. 8 minutes trying to undo the fuel line with 9/16th only to find vice grips are the way to go. Another 5 minutes to find a torch with battery power. 5 minutes trying to get the 2 clips undone. 2 minutes to replace and re tighten and another 10 minutes to let down the car and clean up the mess.

I have just taken the car for a good drive (15 minutes) and have found it to still be sluggish in 1st gear and shocking on take off. Once over 2500rpm in 1st and 2000 rpm in all other gears its fine.

BTW, i think it was the original filter as it still had the yellow sticker on it.

Where to next??

Thanks,

Russell.

[TwistedEL]

Shocking on take off - is it missing?

[Mechan1k]

Well ... fuel supply has been sorted ... it sounds like spark now.
Sounds like low-revs under load only that it is having issues ... ususally when a spark plug is on it's way out it's higher in the rev range it arcs out.

It my be the coil pack ... but they can be funny things ... one day they will work ... another they won't.

Check to make sure all leads are tight and connected firmly on the coil pack itself.

If it still does it ... get it check by an auto electrician on an oscilloscope to see where the problem is ... surely this will show something up.

[JC]

I still think if the engine cranks over OK, it has to be the igniting of the fuel that is the issue. Only 6 major things in play for that:
1. Fuel filter blocking supply (Filter changed, so not that)
2. Fuel pump - needs to pump at the right pressure or fuel just won't get to where it needs to go
3. Injectors - they deliver the fuel to the cylinders. But it appears they have been cleaned recently, so probably not them.
4. Coil Pack - not enough power to generate a spark
5. Leads - not carrying spark to plugs well enough (doubtfull though, as usually one or 2 leads go at once, not the whole set)
6. SparkPlugs - these could have worn tips or something preventing the spark from arcing properly.

If even only one spark plug is getting spark, and that cylinder is getting fuel, the car should just about start - it may not run well, but it would start. So...I'd pull a sparkplug out (and stuff the sparkplug and attached lead into a glove or wrap in a rag so it doesn't arc somehwere and possibly cause a fire), and turn the engine over for say 5 seconds. Then check to see if fuel has been injected into that cylinder - if it has (you should be able to smell it, or perhaps feel it by putting your finger in the hole), then it's a definite spark problem. I would be strongly leaning towards the coil pack, but only after thoroughly checking all spark plugs to make sure they are all clean, and not worn out etc, and also checking every lead.

For the sake of $100, It's probably worth chucking in a new seat of plugs and leads for a start anyway, just to eliminate that as an issue.

I'd put $5 on it being coil pack though (assuming fuel is getting to the cylinders).

[Stav]

Your dont have full fuel rail pressure.Could be the fuel regulator,pump or blocked lines.

[hfcrussell]

I am going to take the car for a run to work tomorrow and see if it sorts its self out.

I dont believe it could be the fuel pump cos if it didnt work there would be no fuel at all. It cant be intermittent for the first 2000rpm then come good.

If i had a blocked cat what would that do? remembering the car has only done 137,000 kays. It does sound noisyer than it should be under the drivers seat with the door open.....


Russell.

[bodes-sh]

a blocked cat would restrict revs, throughout the rev range, not just down low

[hfcrussell]

Ive now given the car a good run on its second fill of BP ultimate after changing the fuel filter. It runs much better and once warm does not stutter or hesitate under load or low rpm. BUT its still a ***** for cold starting..... It does not miss, ive also checked all the leads and they are fine.

Even in the wet i could not spin the tyres on take off but could on 1st to 2nd change in D.

Not sure where to now......

Russell.

[JC]

Originally Posted by hfcrussell

Ive now given the car a good run on its second fill of BP ultimate after changing the fuel filter. It runs much better and once warm does not stutter or hesitate under load or low rpm. BUT its still a ***** for cold starting..... It does not miss, ive also checked all the leads and they are fine.

Even in the wet i could not spin the tyres on take off but could on 1st to 2nd change in D.

Not sure where to now......

Russell.

Could be a stuffed torque converter, but I still reckon coil pack.

[bodes-sh]

if it's still hard to start i'd also be checking/cleaning the ISC valve, GK has a writeup of how to clean it, this is what controls the idle speed

[GK]

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

if it's still hard to start i'd also be checking/cleaning the ISC valve, GK has a writeup of how to clean it, this is what controls the idle speed

I do and here it is!

Cleaning ISC Valve
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...9&postcount=43

This may also help.

Cleaning Throttle Body
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...2&postcount=48

Hope you get it sorted soon.

GK

[MNM96]

Originally Posted by GK

I do and here it is!

Cleaning ISC Valve
This may also help.
Cleaning Throttle Body
Hope you get it sorted soon.

GK

^^^^^
Excellent!
What about the MAF? Do you have a "How To" for cleaning it.
Cheers,
Mike

[GJR]

Just a thought it could be your engine coolant temp sensor which supplies the ecu with the opp temp of your engine from what you are describing.

[AUXRVIII]

Have a compression test and a cylinder leakdown test done when its cold. Valve recession can cause power loss and misfire when engine is cold and it will come good as engine warms up, although valve recession is rare in AU petrol engines but still possible.
What sort of condition is the inlet manifold gasket in, sometimes they crack and get sucked into the path of the injector spray, good quality injector spray pattern is critical for cold start.

[au2sw]

im actually begining to wonder if perhaps you havent maybe done the head gasket. have you checked you oil and coolant for signs of mixing lately? oil will go a milky colour when mixed with water, and coolant will have a shiny film of oil sitting on top. it may be a long shot, but is possible.

[hfcrussell]

I know these have problems but its all good in that department, oil is good and so is the coolant....