HOLDEN Boss: "Australians still want large cars

csv8 · 11-12-2010, 10:58 AM

HOLDEN: Australians still want large cars
Toby Hagon
December 10, 2010 - 3:22PM

Australians still want large cars according to Holden boss.
Holden boss says company is confident there is a future for Commodore - providing it continues fuel economy improvements.

Australians will still want large cars for large families and a large country, according to Holden chairman and CEO Mike Devereux.

But it will have to be more fuel efficient than ever, with Holden improving economy on the large car - the best seller for 15 straight years - to as little as 8.4 litres per 100km in the short term.

Speaking to journalists at an end of year lunch, he confirmed the next "two or three months" would involve some big decisions about the long term future of the Commodore.

"Long term we have some architectural decisions to be making in the next two, three months," said Devereux.
But he believes there is still a market for large cars, albeit one that is posing challenges for the likes of the locally produced Commodore and its Ford rival, the Falcon. The pair are focused largely on the Australian markets, reducing the economies of scale that inevitably come with more global products.

"We're still very confident Australians want to have families with backyards," said Devereux.

The current VE model Commodore went on sale in 2006 and its underpinnings are expected to continue until about 2015 when an all-new model is due. Until then there will be various styling and engineering updates, including the arrival of a dedicated LPG variant in the second half of 2011.

Holden will also add E85 capability - running on a mix of petrol and up to 85 per cent ethanol - next year as part of an MY12 (model year 2012) update.

Devereux confirmed various updates to the Commodore - many focusing on reduced fuel use - will reduce consumption to as little as 8.4 litres per 100km, an eight per cent improvement over today's Commodore.

It's understood everything is on the table for the all-new Commodore - which will have to continue at least five (or possibly 10) years into the future - including new body styles, engines and concepts.

**Falcon Coupe** · 11-12-2010, 11:35 AM

Well so far AFM and SIDI have failed to deliver and ethanol isn't wide spread enough to be feasible.

They are still barking up the wrong tree and need an ecoboost type engine.

b0son · 11-12-2010, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

They are still barking up the wrong tree and need an ecoboost type engine.

So do Ford... or is it available at last?

**Falcon Coupe** · 11-12-2010, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

So do Ford... or is it available at last?

Ford have them but do not need them right now.

Seeing as the current lineup already is powerful and uses less fuel than the opposition they may shelve them until needed, who knows.

http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11267560

http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/experiencef150/

prydey · 11-12-2010, 11:50 PM

i believe the rear egress issue has been fixed somewhat with fg. haven't compared an fg with b series side by side but thought i'd read that the fg rear entry and exit is much better. no issues with mine.

b0son · 12-12-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Seeing as the current lineup already is powerful and uses less fuel than the opposition they may shelve them until needed, who knows.

This is the problem. Ford think the Commodore is the only opposition. It isnt.

If I need a bigger car, I can get an SUV - and it can go places the Falcon cant. If I need economy, I pick the diesel variant.

There'll always be a market for those who are obsessed with nothing more than 0-100 times, but for the rest of us, the Falcon is an increasingly irrelevant proposition.

banarcus · 12-12-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

If I need a bigger car, I can get an SUV - and it can go places the Falcon cant. If I need economy, I pick the diesel variant.

There'll always be a market for those who are obsessed with nothing more than 0-100 times, but for the rest of us, the Falcon is an increasingly irrelevant proposition.

Too true b0son. The large car market is shrinking despite better fuel economy and better than ever performance. The consumer in Australia is truely spoilt for choice when it comes to motor vehicles and sadly for Ford and GMH, their large cars are no longer the staple diet for Aussies these days.

Brazen · 12-12-2010, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

This is the problem. Ford think the Commodore is the only opposition. It isnt.

If I need a bigger car, I can get an SUV - and it can go places the Falcon cant. If I need economy, I pick the diesel variant.

There'll always be a market for those who are obsessed with nothing more than 0-100 times, but for the rest of us, the Falcon is an increasingly irrelevant proposition.

the lack of utility a Falcon sedan offers will be its death, not because it needs to shave 0.3 litres per 100km. A falcon has a similar road footprint to a Landcruiser, yet you cant do anything with a Falcon, a Corolla hatch has more usable cargo space. Private buyers have changed dramatically from just 10 years ago. People want a car which offers or hints at an active lifestyle.

Never in its history has having a wagon or hatch body more vital than it is now for Falcon, but for the first time its sedan only. Just look at Mondeo over 80% opted for the hatch over the sedan, and nearly half of Commodore private buyers are opting for a wagon, could you imagine this even a decade ago?

glavas · 11-12-2010, 11:54 AM

Of course we want large cars who on earth would go on a family road trip in a swift!!!! Fuel consumption is good enough. I get 12l/100 km in a 335 rwkw v8 which in my books is awesome.

csv8 · 11-12-2010, 12:10 PM

I did it in a Festiva, Brisbane to Perth ..10 years ago!!!

glavas · 11-12-2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

I did it in a Festiva, Brisbane to Perth ..10 years ago!!!

bit of a dare devil ay?

csv8 · 11-12-2010, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavas

bit of a dare devil ay?

No !! mad!!! but a fun trip!!

b0son · 11-12-2010, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavas

Of course we want large cars who on earth would go on a family road trip in a swift!!!!

We take our GTI. It may be smaller but it is a better drive than my previous XR6 in every way. Handles better. Quicker. More comfortable inside. More comfortable for the driver over many hours (Syd->Ade 14hours). Uses way less fuel. Kids dont need the extra leg room which is about the only advantage the Falcon had. Even the boot in the Golf is more useable FFS..

ST · 11-12-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

We take our GTI. It may be smaller but it is a better drive than my previous XR6 in every way. Handles better. Quicker. More comfortable inside. More comfortable for the driver over many hours (Syd->Ade 14hours). Uses way less fuel. Kids dont need the extra leg room which is about the only advantage the Falcon had. Even the boot in the Golf is more useable FFS..

Your previous Falcon didn't happen to have a Fiesta badge on the back did it?

A lot of those points are understandable (and subjective), but the boot? You are kidding yourself there.

As for the topic at hand, I don't believe Australians in general still want large cars. When you see tradies driving around in Hyundai Excels you know the day of the large car is over.

b0son · 11-12-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST

A lot of those points are understandable (and subjective), but the boot? You are kidding yourself there.

It's big, yes. But while it's wide, it's too shallow.

Cabbage · 12-12-2010, 10:32 AM

[QUOTE=b0son]We take our GTI. It may be smaller but it is a better drive than my previous XR6 in every way. Handles better. Quicker. More comfortable inside. More comfortable for the driver over many hours (Syd->Ade 14hours). Uses way less fuel. Kids dont need the extra leg room which is about the only advantage the Falcon had. Even the boot in the Golf is more useable FFS..[/QUOTE

Try fitting a decent sized adult in the back seat and a bit of luggage. Thats what the Falcom and Commodores are made for.

b0son · 12-12-2010, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cabbage

Try fitting a decent sized adult in the back seat and a bit of luggage. Thats what the Falcom and Commodores are made for.

Great, but how many people actually do that? A family car for real families, doesnt actually need acres of rear space.

It looks more like an argument for designing Falcadores for cops and taxi drivers.

Cabbage · 12-12-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

Great, but how many people actually do that? A family car for real families, doesnt actually need acres of rear space.

It looks more like an argument for designing Falcadores for cops and taxi drivers.

I'd say thats exactly what a family car should have, space! Wait til the kids get a bigger and the GTI will be on the way out pretty quick. I think someone mentioned in this thread about the falcon's competition, its no longer only the commodore, families look to soft roaders and SUV's now, their versatility is the key. And I agree the Falcon now more than ever needs a sports style wagon.

tex · 12-12-2010, 12:55 PM

[QUOTE=Cabbage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

We take our GTI. It may be smaller but it is a better drive than my previous XR6 in every way. Handles better. Quicker. More comfortable inside. More comfortable for the driver over many hours (Syd->Ade 14hours). Uses way less fuel. Kids dont need the extra leg room which is about the only advantage the Falcon had. Even the boot in the Golf is more useable FFS..[/QUOTE

Try fitting a decent sized adult in the back seat and a bit of luggage. Thats what the Falcom and Commodores are made for.

Try fitting two adults in the front!

Small cars are exactly that - small!

Our S3 gives me leg cramps when I'm in the front due to the inside of the wheel wells protuding into the footwell - you can't sit with both legs in front of you - one need to be off set.

Great if you've got one leg, not so good if you have two.

Fuel economy....... S3 is averaging 11's. The advertised economy is so far off the mark it isn't funny.

And did I mention it rides like a billy cart.

b0son · 12-12-2010, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tex

Our S3 gives me leg cramps when I'm in the front due to the inside of the wheel wells protuding into the footwell - you can't sit with both legs in front of you - one need to be off set.

Personal preference I guess.

I hated the Falcon's pedal position. Too far apart if you heel/toe, too far to the right if you ever use left foot for braking. I prefer a central pedal position, something my Falcon definietly did not have.

I've never had worse bum-rot than after hours spent in the Falcon. The seats were rubbish.

flappist · 11-12-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavas

I get 12l/100 km in a 335 rwkw v8 which in my books is awesome.

Yes of course you do........

But what about when you get to the bottom of the big long hill and have to go up the next one?

glavas · 11-12-2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes of course you do........

But what about when you get to the bottom of the big long hill and have to go up the next one?

I dont get what you mean???? A small 4 cylinder hatch with gear in the boot and 4 adults would struggle up a steep hill you would have to rev it's guts out. Were my maloo could do it with 8 people in the tray and not even break a sweat. Frankly these whole thing about little cars being better on fuel is nonsense. Large cars have come along way in the fuel consumption department. And after owning v8's all my life I still believe if your getting under 15l/100km your doing well.

b0son · 11-12-2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavas

And after owning v8's all my life I still believe if your getting under 15l/100km your doing well.

If you enjoy watching your money going up in smoke... I wouldnt even look at a car anymore that cant get under 10l/100km.

LeadFoot81 · 11-12-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

If you enjoy watching your money going up in smoke... I wouldnt even look at a car anymore that cant get under 10l/100km.

Power (and in this case 'that v8 feel') is a luxury that you pay extra for, no different than paying extra for leather or a sunroof etc etc

glavas · 11-12-2010, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

If you enjoy watching your money going up in smoke... I wouldnt even look at a car anymore that cant get under 10l/100km.

I don't smoke I don't drink I own my cars and my houses I earn 120k a year. Driving around in a v8 is the only real enjoyment I have going for me. I only drive 10000 km a year anyway.

vztrt · 13-12-2010, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

If you enjoy watching your money going up in smoke... I wouldnt even look at a car anymore that cant get under 10l/100km.

I find paying Foxtel throwing money up in smoke but other dont have an issue with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

my BA, which spent almost no time on the freeway, never got better than 14L/100km. on the same roads, my GTI does 9L/100km.

Is the FG 20-30% more economical than the BA? I cant see how an FG isnt going to get better than 13L/100km in my hands.

as I've already mentioned, I'm not interested if it cant do better than 10L/100km.

Seriously 9's out of a small car. That's pretty poor. I mean if small cars aren't doing 7's then I'm not interested.

Stoney! · 12-12-2010, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavas

I dont get what you mean???? A small 4 cylinder hatch with gear in the boot and 4 adults would struggle up a steep hill you would have to rev it's guts out. Were my maloo could do it with 8 people in the tray and not even break a sweat. Frankly these whole thing about little cars being better on fuel is nonsense. Large cars have come along way in the fuel consumption department. And after owning v8's all my life I still believe if your getting under 15l/100km your doing well.

You obviousley thinking about hatchbacks of the past or corolla's. These days with small capacity turbo's, and turbo diesel in most decent hatches that is no longer the case.

Stoney!

glavas · 12-12-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoney!

You obviousley thinking about hatchbacks of the past or corolla's. These days with small capacity turbo's, and turbo diesel in most decent hatches that is no longer the case.

Stoney!

I disagree I have a 09 wrx, 05 Calais ls1, 09 ssv wagon and a e2 maloo all have engine mods and the wrx would have to be the worst no power until 3-4000rpm were the v8's have it from idle to redline...

prydey · 12-12-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavas

I dont get what you mean???? A small 4 cylinder hatch with gear in the boot and 4 adults would struggle up a steep hill you would have to rev it's guts out. Were my maloo could do it with 8 people in the tray and not even break a sweat. Frankly these whole thing about little cars being better on fuel is nonsense. Large cars have come along way in the fuel consumption department. And after owning v8's all my life I still believe if your getting under 15l/100km your doing well.

glavas - you totally missed the point flappist was making. i think he was having a go at your fuel economy, inferring that it was achieved driving downhill.

as for the large v small thing, some people still prefer large cars, regardless of whether smaller cars are more than capable. its that simple. no point arguing that a smaller car will do the job if the person doesn't want a smaller car.

for 90% of the time, i could make do with a smaller car, but every year we drive to qld for a holiday. you can't fit 4 people and luggage in a smaller car and travel 2000km accross the country in comfort with reasonable economy. well, i'm sure some would argue that you can, but we cant. not with esky and stroller and 4 cases and various other stuff.

LeadFoot81 · 11-12-2010, 02:49 PM

'Small' cars have come a long way in a short space of time. You don't need a Falcon or Commodore to be comfy anymore.

I want to see the Commodore and Falcon to continue on indefinitely but Holden and Ford need to figure out exactly what the X-Factor is (or should be) for their large cars, and exploit it.

I've found myself increasingly tempted by the new Fiesta as a run-around, or the 2011 Focus Zetec/ST as a proper alternative to a Falcon. So much bang for your buck! (The AU XR8 will stay in the ledfoot household indefinitely as a weekender however, I love it too mch)