The demise of manual transmissions?

[Grippy]

With technology continuing to provide automatic transmissions that change gear seamlessly and in some cases provide better acceleration numbers in a straight line, are we getting closer to a day where a manufacturer will drop the 'manual option' all together? The numbers show manual cars are continuing to be ignored with new car sales. With auto's such as our much loved ZF providing an amazing driveline and high end manufacturors offering flappy paddles that will no doubt be available at one point in the future for FPV models, could this possibly spell the end for the trusty old 'H' pattern?

There is no doubt die hard manual fans will never order a new car with an auto, but will a time come where it will no longer be economically viable for a manufacturer to offer a manual transmission? If so, it will be a sad, sad day

[DBourne]

I'd say expense will keep them around.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

I'd say expense will keep them around.

I was questioning this myself.

Do the differences in materials and manufacturing processes justify the $2000-$3000 difference in 'cost'?

I wonder what the real cost difference would be, if any at all?

Auto cars are still seen as a premium / luxury addition IMO (especially in Asian / European countries) and as such you pay for the 'privilege' of driving a self shifter.

[Mr Hardware]

Yeah, manuals became superseeded technology when they came out with 5- and 6-speed autos that could beat them in a drag race and at the bowser.

Manuals only exist for boy-racers, journalists and people stuck in 1967.

Don't get me wrong, I've owned as many manual cars as I have automatic cars, and i've enjoyed the first couple of weeks of having a manual, but when i'm shifting gear 247 times in one suburb, i get to the point where i go 'get me back in to a bloody automatic!'

[Grobbo]

Not every country is like Australia and New Zealand in it's buying trend toward Auto's. The English in particular love manuals and even sectors of the American market - 'Sportscar buyers' in particular are hardcore manual gearbox nuts.

I think local V8's and small Euro 4's will continue to have a manual option for a while to come - although it is ominous when you read the latest articles on the Miami V8 that say the auto is so much better suited to the engine - and that's from motoring jouno's who are normally the most 'pro manaul' of them all...

[rancidpunx]

Originally Posted by Grobbo

Not every country is like Australia and New Zealand in it's buying trend toward Auto's. The English in particular love manuals and even sectors of the American market - 'Sportscar buyers' in particular are hardcore manual gearbox nuts.

This guy is on to it.

I think real men will be able to change gear themselves for a while yet.

[MustangNut]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

This guy is on to it.

I think real men will be able to change gear themselves for a while yet.

Bingo !

The only two reasons to drive an auto would be if you either have chest puppies or are missing an arm or leg

[mrbaxr6t]

wow arent we synical last time I checked all forms of motorsport use a manual transmission V8 scs TOCA WRC the list goes on the only form that doesnt use a full blooded manual is F1 and the boxes they use could be construed as very close to a manual been a while since I looked into it but aren't they twin clutch paddle shifts? so if they are what I think they are they are somewhere in the middle not a fully fledged manual but not a fully fledged automatic either, I see manual being around for quite some time yet as all but F1 still use manual transmissions in their race cars, this may change but I see it taking at least two decades maybe more for the tech to filter down to your run of the mill toyota..

[aussie muscle]

I like autos for 'ordinary' driving. i'm not a fan of my BF's sports shift, as it seems so superfluous and unnecessary in most circumstances.

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

last time I checked all forms of motorsport use a manual transmission

except drag racing.
i think motorsports will switch over to autos when they can be set up to be faster than manual. i think the only issue is power loss.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i think motorsports will switch over to autos when they can be set up to be faster than manual. i think the only issue is power loss.

Like the DSG boxes in the F1 cars?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Yeah, manuals became superseeded technology when they came out with 5- and 6-speed autos that could beat them in a drag race and at the bowser.

Manuals only exist for boy-racers, journalists and people stuck in 1967.

Don't get me wrong, I've owned as many manual cars as I have automatic cars, and i've enjoyed the first couple of weeks of having a manual, but when i'm shifting gear 247 times in one suburb, i get to the point where i go 'get me back in to a bloody automatic!'

Hmm, I seem to have heard this argument many time before except the word manual was replaced with V8 and the word automatic replaced with T6.

It is just as valid yet just as invalid depending on you point of view.

People who buy NEW cars tend to chose exactly what they want rather than what is available at the time and sales of bosth V8s and manuals do not seem to have suffered.........

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Manuals only exist for boy-racers, journalists and people stuck in 1967.
'

Fast forward a few years mate - you haven't really driven until you've driven an HQ Kingswood or Belmont 202 with 3 speed manual on the column with bench seat and no power steering...Ahhhh them were the days

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Fast forward a few years mate - you haven't really driven until you've driven an HQ Kingswood or Belmont 202 with 3 speed manual on the column with bench seat and no power steering...Ahhhh them were the days

HHmmm ?? I used to drive them to Holden dealer . Then pre deliver service them... This was before EFI, OHC,IRS OR RTS..
Big upgrade was syncro in first gear !!! Aha...


I must say... I prefer a manual .. BUT the more power you have the auto is a no brainer... I have two WRX's one auto / one manual..
The auto is our fav one to drive.. Its fitted with STI motor.. BUT its a 95 model.. The other is a manual 07 model.. Good car we drive it mainly interstate .. In this case turbo and auto matches VERY well...
The two Falcons ...
One is V8 & twin turbo FUN to drive but 650 rwhp is not easy getting to the ground...
The new XR6T's get the job done nice with power band on the whole time with little rpm on boost....
I would rather drive than steer though...

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Fast forward a few years mate - you haven't really driven until you've driven an HQ Kingswood or Belmont 202 with 3 speed manual on the column with bench seat and no power steering...Ahhhh them were the days

Or 2 door valliant regal.
One of the smoothest cars I ever drove

Having said that though. I think the "sports shift" auto is a good compramise.
Love it in my Terry.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Manuals only exist for boy-racers, journalists and people stuck in 1967.

Don't get your nickers in a twist, just because your bone's are becoming too brittle to change gears doesn't mean you have to take out your oldie rage on the transmission

I thought you quite enjoyed driving my v8 no?

[TS50]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Yeah, manuals became superseeded technology when they came out with 5- and 6-speed autos that could beat them in a drag race and at the bowser.

Manuals only exist for boy-racers, journalists and people stuck in 1967.

Don't get me wrong, I've owned as many manual cars as I have automatic cars, and i've enjoyed the first couple of weeks of having a manual, but when i'm shifting gear 247 times in one suburb, i get to the point where i go 'get me back in to a bloody automatic!'

Maybe I am stuck in 1967 (mind you i was too young to drive then) or maybe a boy racer
but I love the manual
If I lived in a big city with lots of traffic jams, maybe not for a daily
But down here in Tassie, a manual is just perfect for little old me
And yes I drive new autos tooo, but just simply prefer to be in total control

[glavas]

people are just very lazy. it is not that hard to change a gear. it takes half a second.

in asia and europe there are manuals everywere. if the manual does die off then the few remaining ones will be worth a fair bit.

[tweeked]

I never want to grow out of being a boy racer

[Fled74]

Originally Posted by tweeked

I never want to grow out of being a boy racer

^^ Same!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by tweeked

I never want to grow out of being a boy racer

Agreed, I reckon most would know my opinion on this.

Australia is very much like the US. I truly hope that the manual does not die off, but if the past is anything to go by then it might happen.

I will always prefer a manual, but there are times when my auto is nice to have too.

It doesn't matter how much faster, smoother or efficient an auto might be, a manual will always offer greater satisfaction as a driving experience.

There is a place for both, but if the accountants had their way then I would be worried. IMO driving a manual is actually a life skill, and unless you have a disability of some sort then it should be mandatory atleast when getting your license. What you do after that is your own choice.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by glavas

it is not that hard to change a gear. it takes half a second.

That could very well be a big part of the problem.

[Grippy]

I hope the day never comes, but it does seem to be becoming a lost art. Thinking about it last night I asked some friends if they've driven a manual car before, only 1 of the 6 males present had driven a manual car before, they're missing out on a lot of fun.

[crdave]

Originally Posted by Grippy

I hope the day never comes, but it does seem to be becoming a lost art. Thinking about it last night I asked some friends if they've driven a manual car before, only 1 of the 6 males present had driven a manual car before, they're missing out on a lot of fun.

My mums never driven an auto!

[Danny]

Originally Posted by glavas

are they gay mates or what?

You'd be pretty surprised d in the real world and saw that there are a lot of gay dudes out there that wear jeans and tee's, overalls, that drive manuals, FPV's and other sports cars, work in the building industry, or do "manly" things like cook BBQ's, eat kangaroo steaks, put up pergolas, lay bricks, and go wakeboarding, or mountain biking, or track their cars on a race day. Thats a pretty offensive and stupid stereotype mate, its what I've typically come to expect from you, you add nothing to these forums with your 1950's insights, nothing. Would you disown your son if he was gay?

Mods will shut a topic for inciting racism or religious intolerance and you pull some stupid comment like that.... It may have been in Jest, but Ford Forums is a wide community, and there ARE gay blokes on FF, just as there are Asians, Italians, Greeks, or Muslims, or Jews, or Americans, or Catholics, or New Zealanders. Bigotry of any type should not have a place here.

Back on topic, I don't think the manual is dying as much as it is becoming a lesser performance altenative. I ummed and ahhh'd non stop for 3 weeks about whether to buy My Golf in DSG or manual, but at the end of the day, I just could not go past the true feel of clutch in clutch out power on, smile like a cheshire cat.

[Iggypoppin']

At least with ford drivers, with the zf being as good as it is I'm sure many buyers are just not bothering with the manual, not taking away from manuals(I love cog swapping!) but sometimes a smooth euro transmission is a better choice than a manual especially in family cars.

[Grippy]

Originally Posted by Iggypoppin'

At least with ford drivers, with the zf being as good as it is I'm sure many buyers are just not bothering with the manual, not taking away from manuals(I love cog swapping!) but sometimes a smooth euro transmission is a better choice than a manual especially in family cars.

Exactly right, auto's are only going to get better as well.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Grippy

Exactly right, auto's are only going to get better as well.

Nomatter how good an auto gets, it will never know what sought of a mood I’m in, what my intentions are, what the other drivers are doing, or what the road conditions ahead are.
I don’t want a gearbox to “learn my driving habits,” I want it to do what I tell it.
There’s not much point in these semi-auto boxes that can change gears in a nanosecond, when the driver’s input is overridden by the computer.
With a manual, you put it in 2nd, it stays in 2nd. Come back in 6 months, and it will still be in 2nd. Select 2nd in a “Sports Automatic” and it’s a chook raffle to see what gear it’s in when you plant your foot.

[vztrt]

There was an article where Manuals were becoming popular again around the world. It was in Australia where manuals were dying off.

Seeing as most people are useless with a car I dont see them having the capability to actually drive a manual.

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Manuals only exist for boy-racers, journalists and people stuck in 1967.

Auto's only exist for Taxi's!!

That should even out the ignorance from that quote.

[Polyal]

I do agree its funny how people say an auto is good in traffic etc, but as said above unless its a manual and diesel it just wont sell in Europe; and their towns/cities etc have smaller streets than ours.

[3vXT]

They will around for a while yet. Auto's are still pretty complicated. If you get a metal case, fill it with rocks and broken glass and stick a steel rod into the top with a plastic knob on the end you've pretty much built your own T5 gearbox!! Its that easy you can do it at home!!! Needs a service? Simple, change the rocks